Announcement Change Is Here!

[sharonbrannigan]

mark, further info for your benefit:

http://www.entrepreneur.com/encyclopedia/term/82494.html

i suggest a mission statement because more people might be inclined to jump on board, but frankly, if i have to suggest this, i'm not sure of the business credentials exposed. do you have a college degree in business or otherwise? i mean no disrespect, but i view my 100 bucks as an investment for me.

 

[anytimeflowers]

RIDICULOUS!!!!

The sheer audacity of anyone, ANYONE, to think themselves better than others in this forum is beyond belief. Seriously. BEYOND BELIEF!

Many members have been in this industry as long or longer than me. MANY HAVE NOT! How dare anybody to presume that without the benefit of their wisdom to guide me, I will just flounder on the beach as if gasping for life!

I am excited, really excited, to see what is coming down the road. I have always endeavored to push forward with new thinking to stay ahead of the eight-ball. Certainly not embracing change,(hate it), but accepting IT because IT IS! Perhaps that is where the argument lies. Although, really, THERE IS NO ARGUMENT, IT IS WHAT IT IS!

Even so, perhaps you who have participated for so long feel a certain ownership that I, being a new member, do not feel. Search youselves to be sure you don't fit into an analogy of a child taking their toys and going home. MANY OTHERS HAVE BALLS. (oops, un-intended pun but I like it!)

I would add here that I have been published over the years, and nobody ever offered me a dime, nor did I expect it. I freely offer my advice, which is quite worthy.

I plan to win, pure and simple. Always have, always will.

Hope to see you in February

 

[Rhonda]

In My Very Humble Opinion:
although this takes a turn, I've seen more bogus "mission statements" only because people think it gives credibility to a business, organization, or club.
I've seen too many "mission statements" that prove to be total bull especially by those who are going to be employed by the entity (such as those organizations going for government grants that when they get those grants pay more for the employees to run the organization than the organization supplies to those it supposedly has the mission statement for). I see a mission statement as a politically correct addition to give people a "good feeling". Why not just say "My mission is to be in business and to earn a living as well as make a profit at supplying a product people will pay money for"

In Other Words......."mission statements" are written to make people feel at ease. They are NOT a binding contract with anyone who chooses to have a relationship with the entity.

IMHO
: ) : ) : ) : ) (see I'm smiling, not confrontational)

 

[sharonbrannigan]

look, i am just suggesting a mission statement might be helpful to those people unsure of where fc is headed. that's it. i'm not inferring anything else. no need to get upset. just trying to have a discussion.

 

[Eric S]

In 2003 and 2004 I relied on Teleflora FTD and 800flowers to help my business grow

At the end of 2004 I had the pleasure of meeting many of the members on the FTD board which lead to those crazy days on that other crazy board.

In 2005 I joined this board. Still working on my website I had the opportunity to research so much information (that is still available if you look) from this place and used it to create the kick ass website known as http://www.everydayflowers.net. The blog followed, A You Tube Channel and Facebook and Twitter. Before the media was telling business owners to use these free tools it was already being discussed here on flowerchat.

What is that information worth?
How about a website that does over $150,000 a year in sales.
The combined shared knowledge of 100's of years of experience that everyone here has to share.
Fresh Design Ideas from some of top designers in the industry.
A place to complain about competitors customers and the almighty wire service.

As we sit here today and look around at all of the free loaders expecting the government to take care of their sorry ass. And as our own government continues to fund failing companies that do nothing but push paper around. I think about a quote that my father law told me not to long ago. He came from Vietnam with nothing but his daughter and the clothes on their back and yet here he is today telling me someone that has lived here my whole life and never once thought about what this famous quote means.

Its not what your country can do for you its what you can do for your country.

I'd like to think that we can have a place to go and share ideas and come up with ways to save a failing industry. But to rely upon others to provide a place out of their own pockets and to donate endless amounts of hours to address technical problems, personal problems and whatever it is that us florist can throw at them calls for new quote.

Its not what flowerchat can do for you its what you can do for flowerchat!

I would rather give my 149.95 a month to flowerchat then continue to give it to Teleflora. At least I know that I will always get something in return to help my business and my way of life. Come on guys Ryan deserve this and we all have done some incrediable things thanks to this place. Many of you threw your money away to Beneva to try something new. Or donated your fresh flowers to your community hopping to get something in return. Its just crazy to think for one second that Ryan and his company doesn't deserve this.

He put this together on his own and he freakin deserves it!!

 

[Victoria]

How many people ask for a mission statement from a company before they buy? Certainly not me.

I buy from places who have impeccable reputations. I support Flowerchat because of the professional and personal credentials of those involved.

I don't need an arbitrary mission statement (which any clown can fabricate to placate the masses). I prefer to investigate and research other avenues ie: other clients, or users or whathaveyou.

Good grief... Ryan, Mark and Cathy have already pointed out in numerous posts in this thread where Flowerchat is headed. That's enough of a "mission statement" surely.

V

 

[CHERYL BAKIN]

Ssorry, Victoria, but I beg to disagree with you on this one.

Ryan has stated that for $100/year, we will now get continued access to FC, with a few bells and whistles thrown in.

While I respect Ryan and what he has created at Strider, his, mark and Cathy's vague statements regarding "future projects" do not give me the same warm and fuzzy feeling that they are giving you.

You see, I have been listening to the same rabble rousing "we gotta change the consumer's mind" message for the last 4 years. It has gotten us........no-where.

Perhaps there is a better plan. If so, a little more sharing, and a little more action would be appreciated.

I am a woman of action. I generally put my money where my mouth is. That's why I and Clay, Kathy Dudley, Melissa from the Ivy Green, Erlene and Lisa Greene....along with the great support and help of Smithers Oasis, Transflora and Pioneer Wholesale....managed to get ourselves to the NFDA convention and made an impact. We are still making an impact. See what a Small group of people, with sheer determination, guts, hard work and just a little support can do when we set our minds to it???

NONE OF US who have asked questions here are against Ryan, Mark and Cathy.
We would just like some more straightforward answers before we, like the lemmings, head for the cliff one more time.

Thanks,
Cheryl

 

[theRKF]

Your terms of service or terms of use DO NOT clearly or unclearly, in any way, state the ownership of the content of the "free" FC board
...
It is intellectual property. We created it. You did not. We disagree on this one. Moving forward, you are laying claim to something that really does not belong to you.

Cheryl,

I'm addressing this issue on more time - and for the last time - because you keep using incorrect terminology, and with your reputation many people trust what you say. I don't want to propogate misunderstandings, so I will try to address it using the bluntness you appreciated in your earlier post. Then we can be done and still be friends.

You're wrong. You have no legal or implied backing for your claim, and the fact that you keep saying "intellectual property" doesn't make it true. I'm sorry, but whether you post something in a public online forum, send a letter to the editor, or call in to a radio show, you're giving up license to what you say or write. This has been upheld in court regarding new and old media.

I get that you don't like that reality - but that is the reality.

All we're doing is changing our price and upgrading our service. You don't need to give your customers 45 days notice to adjust prices on your flowers - it's your perogative to charge what you want, when you want. We are changing from a high-value offering at $0 to a higher value offering at $0.27 per day. That's the end of the story, and it's not really any more complicated than that.

 

[Sprout]

OK, eyes bleary from reading too many posts. I have only been on here for less than a year, so I don't have as much invested in Flower Chat as some others, but here are my two cents for what it's worth.

1. There's nothing wrong in wanting to be paid for providing value. It's what I try to do every day.
2. For my $100 there's w-a-a-a-y too much talk on here about order gatherers and wire services, but maybe those folks won't be able to afford to participate in FC - fingers crossed! LOL.

I'm in. For at least a year, and then we'll see! I'm hoping Flower Chat will be the next step for me in my grand plan between "media darling" to "leading authority"! ;-)

 

[CHR]

Cheryl -

We can all lay out our lists of very successful activities as volunteers here. My stint as AIFD symposium chair cost me more than $10K out of pocket - but it was my choice. Spent much more on volunteer floral activities since then. MUCH more.

You're right. It takes action to succeed. It also takes money to take action.

There have been many rallying cries to 'do something' yet the request of $100 - from a place that has proven itself a value year after year after year - has some folks in a dither.

You guys volunteered your time and funds (no doubt a significant amount of both).

Could you do it every year for 7 years?

If you asked for a minor sum after all that time and were told by the same folks you've worked with all along - and with your track record - that you now need a mission statement plus a full financial accounting for all possible future needs, does that sound trusting or even respectful on a human level? Good gravy, it's not like some WS adding a $250 annual fee in the small print like they do every other month.

For the record, I have never been paid for any activity here, nor will I be paid in the future. I DO know that Ryan has been bleeding cash from his passion for the FC Community and what he has proposed seems to be a reasonable way to help ensure its viability and future success (layed out in post #1 of this thread).

The veiled and not-so-veiled suspicion stuff escapes me entirely. It's not like we're all strangers to one another.

 

[theRKF]

Ryan has stated that for $100/year, we will now get continued access to FC, with a few bells and whistles thrown in.

... vague statements regarding "future projects" do not give me the same warm and fuzzy feeling that they are giving you.

You see, I have been listening to the same rabble rousing "we gotta change the consumer's mind" message for the last 4 years. It has gotten us........no-where.

Perhaps there is a better plan. If so, a little more sharing, and a little more action would be appreciated.

I think, perhaps, this is where you and Sharon are getting confused (if I'm misunderstanding you, please let me know.)

As you said above, the payment option presented now is for FC access = forums, blogs, galleries, premium content, etc.

The vague promised about future action are a separate entity that WE will be investing in, and that YOU will possibly have the option to invest in at a future time. At that time things will be clearer and you'll be able to discern at that time if you want to participate.

Right now the question is simple: FC for $100 - are you in or out?

Sharon, I promise you a mission statement when there is something to clarify. In the meantime, we're keeping a lid on things. Did anyone notice how it took less than 24 hours for someone to clone our old FC business model? Forgive me for being tight lipped for now

Hope that helps!

 

[RWK]

Ultimately, It all comes down to good common sense........If you feel that FlowerChat is worth the money, then great.......I myself DO FEEL that it is worth the money.......However, if you feel that FlowerChat is NOT worth the money, You'll be missed for certain.

NO one, not me, not Mark, not Cathy, not Goldfish, .............. has the power to convince you one way or the other once your mind is made up.

So, just to re-cap......Here is the way I understand things. ( using the yearly fee because that is the way I'l be paying )

Ok - For 100.00 - I get 1 year's access to everything that is now and will be associated with FLOWERCHAT.COM - The commentary, the design tips, the business advice, the jokes, the chats, the wire service rants and raves, people on and off soapboxes, and some stuff that is coming.

There will be some additional investment opportunities down the road, which will be announced, and the opportunity to invest in that venture then........or to say no.

As with gas, food, clothes, housing rents, etc..........I expect the 100 dollar rate to go up as inflation and the cost of doing business rise.

--------------------------------------------------------------------

Now, an idea that I thought about earlier today at work. Since some have said that they felt that 100.00 was too high a fee to cover bandwith, server fees, and the techical costs of hosting a forum...........what about a basic FlowerChat subscription and then an enhanced FlowerChat subscription.

To use an analogy........daisies, carnations, roses, protea.

a basic arrangement of dasies is one price, you'd pay more for a basic arrangement of carnations, more for roses, and more for protea.........so it follows that those who would be willing to pay more, get more.

 

[aileen_c]

I do think Ryan is being treated unfairly....with an amount of suspicion that is unnecessary. Plain and simple: If you have been on this board-returning for more than 5 months, then obviously you see a value in it....if it's been years then there is a value in it. The value is in the easy connection with other florists, vendors, etc in one arena from all over the world.

For me, I am a total newbie in this industry. I don't have years under my belt. I came here to learn about the industry, I now have friends in the industry. Have I been disrespected on this board? Sure! Have I been tried to be made to feel less than..oh for sure but I don't feel that way. With that I still feel it is valuable to me. I am leaning towards the monthly until I can afford the $100 level. So in actuality probably at the end of the month....but who knows. Life happens. I didn't expect to shell out over $800 this past weekend for a family emergency but I did.

So all one really needs to ask themself is this: Is FC a priority and value to you??

 

[CelebrationGeneration]

I know I mentioned in the first page of this thread that I would not be joining, due to my re-careering.. but I've read through all 20 pages of this thread, and there are some things I want to say.

For those wondering about the money, or complaining that Ryan may stand to make money off it... have you EVER put together a site? Admined one? Have any experience programming/editting forums, portal sites, plugins, etc? Cause let me tell you, I have some basic experience (I swear I have nightmares about editing style sheets for wordpress!).. and I CANNOT imagine how much work Ryan et al have put into this site. CANNOT. WRAP. MY. MIND. AROUND. IT.

Would you be willing to work for free, for years.. having to deal with tech support issues, whiners, complainers, etc etc? To deal with code that can be EXTREMELY frustrating at times, all JUST because you believe in the need for such a community? Putting aside work hours that could be spent on something much more profitable? I seriously doubt it.

The issue of intellectual property / content has come up, along with some odd comparisons and analogies. "Why should he make money off other people's content?", etc. Flowerchat isn't a scam, or a landlord.. it's a living, evolving, interactive LIBRARY. Librarians / Library systems may not write the books that they loan, but they sure do have a lot of overhead, and a LOT of work goes into organizing, curating, etc. You know what? Librarians get paid (even if not enough). I'm still blown away that Flowerchat has remained free for THIS LONG.

The whining really surprises me. What does Ryan / Flowerchat / the world owe you, or any of us? If you don't think Flowerchat is a valuable tool... then don't stay on. I think it'd be a bizarre conclusion to come to, but whatever, it's your business.

Ryan, admins, and everyone moving forward with flowerchat - I wish you all the best of luck, and would love to hear that Flowerchat is flourishing even years from now. I think your switch to paid subscription is well overdue.. and Ryan, I hope you use some membership money to take a nice vacation. I'm not being facetious at all - you have done SO MUCH for SO many businesses by overseeing this site, I think many, many subscribers would love to know that they could give back on a personal level. I just wish everyone had some clue of the sick amount of work involved with running a site like this. I'd saint ya if I could, man.

 

[CHERYL BAKIN]

To Ryan and to Cathy:
We are asking questions about your plans.......we are NOT attacking you as persons in our industry. This is not a PERSONAL FIGHT. This is one Business Person asking business questions before making a business decision.

Ryan: just for the record, here is what Intellectual Property is broadly defined as, by the World Intellectual Property Organization:

Intellectual Property
The term intellectual property refers broadly to the creations of the human mind. Intellectual property rights protect the interests of creators by giving them property rights over their creations.
The Convention Establishing the World Intellectual Property Organization (1967) gives the following list of subject matter protected by intellectual property rights:

•literary, artistic and scientific works;
•performances of performing artists, phonograms, and broadcasts;
•inventions in all fields of human endeavor;
•scientific discoveries;
•industrial designs;
•trademarks, service marks, and commercial names and designations;
•protection against unfair competition; and
•“all other rights resulting from intellectual activity in the industrial, scientific, literary or artistic fields.”

Intellectual property relates to items of information or knowledge, which can be incorporated in tangible objects at the same time in an unlimited number of copies at different locations anywhere in the world. The property is not in those copies but in the information or knowledge reflected in them. Intellectual property rights are also characterized by certain limitations, such as limited duration in the case of copyright and patents.
(end quotation)



I do not recall, nor can I find in the FC TOU, or TOS, any reference or other mention that tells me that FC, Ryan Freeman, or Stryder owns the combined knowledge, tips, artistic design, etc, that I and others have posted here over the last many years........nor do I find that I have given up those rights knowlingly or unknowlingly.

Sorry Ryan....but Intellectual Property is an intangible asset that consists of Human knowledge and ideas. I, individually and collectively, did not give up my rights to our ideas and postings to you or to anyone else........for your current scheme of financial gain via a new paid forum.

If you want to have a Paid for forum....that's fine. You are the host, you are entitled.

You are not, however, entitled to continue to take or to use our previous efforts in a previously FREE FORUM for your financial gain. This forum, as it exists now, should be shut down. You are essentially starting a new forum..... and you need to do so witthout the use of the posts & knowledge of those of us who have not granted continued use to you.

Further.....
"The importance of protecting intellectual property was first recognized in the Paris Convention for the Protection of Industrial Property in 1883 and the Berne Convention for the Protection of Literary and Artistic Works in 1886. Both treaties are administered by the World Intellectual Property Organization (WIPO).

Countries generally have laws to protect intellectual property for two main reasons. One is to give statutory expression to the moral and economic rights of creators in their creations and to the rights of the public in accessing those creations. The second is to promote creativity, and the dissemination and application of its results, and to encourage fair trade, which would contribute to economic and social development."


Also,
Cathy, my point in my previous post was to show that much can be done with not a lot of money. We invested our own time, money and efforts. We hope that it will continue to parlay into something bigger and better. We know that it continues to raise awareness of a vital issue each and every day.

Cathy, we are asking questions regarding where this "future direction" is headed because many of us, like you, Mark and Ryan, are concerned about the state of our industry. If we had some idea where and when this is headed, some of us might, just for instance:
Not go to SAF in Washington, DC in March and save those funds to join in something here ........ or.....
Not upgrade or change POS systems....
.because that type of decision could impact our ability financially to participate or not to participate in whatever it is that you are planning.

It's about deciding about the best use of funds.....both short-term and long term....resources are limited....and people what to make the best decisions that they can, based upon good, sound information............and for the record, I stopped listening to the "just trust me...it will be Ok" routine when I was about 13.
If you cannot or do not want to post it here, then send it via a PM or call me.)

And Finally, Ryan, You stated in a much earlier post that PART OF THE $100. annual fee would go to Stryder, and PART OF THE FEE would be put toward the new endeavor.......whatever that is.......... and that further participation would then require further funds from the members.
This is different than what you are saying now.....

Cheryl

 

[sfox]

Wow, this new board is going over big!

Got th love Locate for their stepping up to the plate.

Nuf Said

 

[Knife's Wife]

Apparently you were only here for the wisdom of a very few people and yourself. Have fun at Locate!

 

[CHR]

Sfox - I thought you had more class and elegance than that.

 

[Knife's Wife]

As did I.

Joan

 

[CHR]

Cheryl -

I guess my point was that if you or Clay had come to FC and said you needed money to put a presentation on for the NAFD, I would just have sent a personal check and probably helped you find other resources for funds. I would trust both of you to use the money wisely. No paperwork or pie charts or mission statements needed...

Not go to SAF in Washington, DC in March and save those funds to join in something here

$1000+ vs $100?

Not upgrade or change POS systems....

$5000+ vs $100?

Not saying $100 is zero, but most certainly it would not prevent anyone from going to SAF in Washington or upgrading a POS system.