Features and Benefits

[goldfish]

Goldfish, I respectfully disagree with your statement in bold. I think I have been involved in many of the WS threads and think that we all "listen" and have "dialogue"....do you mean that we don't listen because we disagree with you or that we don't listen because we don't respond?

Neither.

"Don't listen" refers to the situation where one has a certain agenda to make (in this case, anti-WS) and tries to push that agenda, not by responding to each debating point, but by shouting his/her slogans. Or by questioning the sanity/ethics/inteligence of a person whom s/he disagrees with.

There are a few such individuals. While I concede that many more are not in this kind of "don't listen" group, WS debate tends to attract these people.

Another argument I hear often is like this: "I'm WS-free and so happy with it. I don't understand why anyone is still a member of WS." These people usually "don't listen," because they are already out of WS and don't want to question their decisions after the fact.

 

[Chezbloom]

You misunderstood what Carrington, who is no fan of WS herself, meant. She was responding to your post in which you said Cathy's letter to WS executiveswon't work.

She responded to your remark by saying "...florists can't and indeed shouldn't give up wire" expressing her opinion that there may still be a chance that WS might change a course. She is not saying that no one should be WS-free.

I NEVER said Cathy's letter won't work. You asked me to prove that I saw a post by someone who said they could think of several reasons to stay with the WS.

I did.

What is your beef with me Goldfish?
I certainly don't have one with you. If you are happy with the WS and making money. I applaud you.

 

[inferno63]

Neither.

"Don't listen" refers to the situation where one has a certain agenda to make (in this case, anti-WS) and tries to push that agenda, not by responding to each debating point, but by shouting his/her slogans. Or by questioning the sanity/ethics/inteligence of a person whom s/he disagrees with.

There are a few such individuals. While I concede that many more are not in this kind of "don't listen" group, WS debate tends to attract these people.

Another argument I hear often is like this: "I'm WS-free and so happy with it. I don't understand why anyone is still a member of WS." These people usually "don't listen," because they are already out of WS and don't want to question their decisions after the fact.

I don't find that anyone is insulting anyone's intelligence but passionately stating opinions. I think that you might be taking it a bit too personal. In fact, you just insulted the WS free by assuming that they remain WS free only because their egos won't allow them to second guess their decision after the fact. I think all of my people on this side of the fence would agree that if the WS was beneficial to them and the industry as a whole we would gladly leap back to your side. I truly believe, and I am not shouting.....wait, let me check.....yes, a normal pulse.......I truly believe that unless you are a high volume sender you are being hurt by the WS. I also truly believe, and calmly relay, that many florists stay with WS out of fear, lack of resources, or are captive to the POS or credit card processing, or need the website, or are trapped into owing them money ......not due to lack of intelligence, or sanity, or ethics. I think that the WS is taking advantage of the florist that lack the resources to do for themselves what the WS offers. I just can't figure out why someone would stay with a WS if they could do all of that themselves less costly? It just baffles me and I don't understand. So I will continue to participate in these threads attempting to understand and attempting to pick brains until I fully understanding how to fight the fight against WS.

I think I will figure out a way to post a poll on this issue and see who is truly the majority....at least on FC. The results would be fascinating either way.

I reply to you respectfully, and would never insult you, and welcome your opinions and ideas. Because you are on the other side, I have much to learn from you in the battle.

 

[Mikey the Flower Guy]

so far, so good...this is one of those threads that has kept emotions abated about wire services.
For those that are ANTI wire service, you "could" say you are "sharing" too much revenue with them.
For those that are PRO wire service, you "could" say, that being a member has it's price, and benefits.(CHR)
For all intent, some shops do very well being members of a wire service, and actually USE (spelled actually take advantage of) the benefits and guarantees that a wire service offers.
Somehow, the entire "sentiment" revolves around WHAT the wire services DOO for you, and WHY they seem to think that REAL FLORISTS are cash fodder for THEIR (ws) bottom lines.
An "electronic network" of florists is essential for volume locations.....calling out/in is the "task master" that we've ALL agreed, is archaic at best, so, those shops that continue to be members, maybe stand a better chance at the next level of evolution in the industry.
Of course, for many, the frustrations are at all time high levels, and NOW, just like in the past, many times over, florists have flown outta the wire service coop, and than, just to return, when the "sailing" is on calmer seas!
For ONCE, I'd like ALL wire services, to put their collective feet down, and decide, that as a "member" you are either in, or you're out, and ONCE out, it costs BIG to get back IN!!
For ONCE, I'd like REAL FLORISTS to quit "bantering" make THEIR OWN decisions based on THEIR OWN business requirements, and QUIT harassing those that have decided to stay as members of a wire service.
Enough already, but, MORE PLEASE!!
You guys...:yourock:

 

[inferno63]

so far, so good...this is one of those threads that has kept emotions abated about wire services.
For those that are ANTI wire service, you "could" say you are "sharing" too much revenue with them.
For those that are PRO wire service, you "could" say, that being a member has it's price, and benefits.(CHR)
For all intent, some shops do very well being members of a wire service, and actually USE (spelled actually take advantage of) the benefits and guarantees that a wire service offers.
Somehow, the entire "sentiment" revolves around WHAT the wire services DOO for you, and WHY they seem to think that REAL FLORISTS are cash fodder for THEIR (ws) bottom lines.
An "electronic network" of florists is essential for volume locations.....calling out/in is the "task master" that we've ALL agreed, is archaic at best, so, those shops that continue to be members, maybe stand a better chance at the next level of evolution in the industry.
Of course, for many, the frustrations are at all time high levels, and NOW, just like in the past, many times over, florists have flown outta the wire service coop, and than, just to return, when the "sailing" is on calmer seas!
For ONCE, I'd like ALL wire services, to put their collective feet down, and decide, that as a "member" you are either in, or you're out, and ONCE out, it costs BIG to get back IN!!
For ONCE, I'd like REAL FLORISTS to quit "bantering" make THEIR OWN decisions based on THEIR OWN business requirements, and QUIT harassing those that have decided to stay as members of a wire service.
Enough already, but, MORE PLEASE!!
You guys...:yourock:

Do you truly think that we are "harrassing" those who stay as members of WS? I think that is a strong word. They can't start the fire, jump into it, and then complain that they get burned. In other words, Pro-WS people willingly jump into the debate. If they feel picked on, leave the playground. oke:

But I am glad you, Mikey, are still playing. :bouncy:

 

[goldfish]

I don't find that anyone is insulting anyone's intelligence but passionately stating opinions. I think that you might be taking it a bit too personal.

"inferno", you are of course entitled to your opinion, but please don't tell me how I should feel, as it's not relevant.

In fact, you just insulted the WS free by assuming that they remain WS free only because their egos won't allow them to second guess their decision after the fact.

You are putting your words into my mouth and then criticizing it. I've seen that so many times in FC and other places. That's called "straw-man" argument, very common on political debate. I'm not interested in that. It's irritating indeed. Where does that "their egos won't allow them to second guess..." come from? Not from me.

I will state again what I actually wrote. They don't listen, because they don't want to question their decision after the fact. That is it. You may agree or disagree, but you can't criticize it by manufacturing what I might have "assumed." I didn't state "only because" nor refer to their "ego." It's your word, not mine.

I think all of my people on this side of the fence would agree that if the WS was beneficial to them and the industry as a whole we would gladly leap back to your side.

Here, again, you are defining "my side." Do you really know what "my side" is?

I truly believe, and I am not shouting.....wait, let me check.....yes, a normal pulse.......I truly believe that unless you are a high volume sender you are being hurt by the WS. I also truly believe, and calmly relay, that many florists stay with WS out of fear, lack of resources, or are captive to the POS or credit card processing, or need the website, or are trapped into owing them money ......not due to lack of intelligence, or sanity, or ethics. I think that the WS is taking advantage of the florist that lack the resources to do for themselves what the WS offers.

All those things you mentioned, I happen to share most of them, too. So what is "my side", as opposed to your side?

I just can't figure out why someone would stay with a WS if they could do all of that themselves less costly? It just baffles me and I don't understand.

Many florists choose to stay with the WS for various reasons that are specific to their situations. I have mine, which may or may not be the same as other florists.

Do I want to explain specific reasons why "I" want to stay with the WS? Yes and No. No, because I don't want to explain all the financials of m shop. Yes, I can explain something in general, if you wish. Do you want to hear?

I think I will figure out a way to post a poll on this issue and see who is truly the majority....at least on FC. The results would be fascinating either way.

Unfortunately, the truth can't be polled, because it has nothing to do with the opinion of the majority. Truth and democracy often don't get along.

I reply to you respectfully, and would never insult you, and welcome your opinions and ideas. Because you are on the other side, I have much to learn from you in the battle.

I'm totally puzzled why you belive I'm on "the other side."

 

[Chezbloom]

Goldfish,

Seriously,

take some time off, relax and enjoy the weekend!
:squish:

 

[Chezbloom]

Chill'n

Goldfish,

Seriously,

take some time off, relax and enjoy the weekend!
:squish:

 

[inferno63]

"inferno", you are of course entitled to your opinion, but please don't tell me how I should feel, as it's not relevant.



You are putting your words into my mouth and then criticizing it. I've seen that so many times in FC and other places. That's called "straw-man" argument, very common on political debate. I'm not interested in that. It's irritating indeed. Where does that "their egos won't allow them to second guess..." come from? Not from me.

I will state again what I actually wrote. They don't listen, because they don't want to question their decision after the fact. That is it. You may agree or disagree, but you can't criticize it by manufacturing what I might have "assumed." I didn't state "only because" nor refer to their "ego." It's your word, not mine.



Here, again, you are defining "my side." Do you really know what "my side" is?



All those things you mentioned, I happen to share most of them, too. So what is "my side", as opposed to your side?



Many florists choose to stay with the WS for various reasons that are specific to their situations. I have mine, which may or may not be the same as other florists.

Do I want to explain specific reasons why "I" want to stay with the WS? Yes and No. No, because I don't want to explain all the financials of m shop. Yes, I can explain something in general, if you wish. Do you want to hear?



Unfortunately, the truth can't be polled, because it has nothing to do with the opinion of the majority. Truth and democracy often don't get along.



I'm totally puzzled why you belive I'm on "the other side."

Wow, you are way too analytical! But I'll play. First of all, this whole forum is about opinions. This thread is about opinions. I don't want to precede everything I say with "in my opinion"....you already know that it is my opinion. With that in mind.....

You are playing word games in all your posts and although it is frustrating, it does amuse me. Your post implied insult to WS Free people at the same time you were crying that you felt insulted by us.

And once again.....yes, I want to hear it all. That is why I continue to respond to you.

Your side is that if the wire service is beneficial to you as a florist financially, then you can justify why a florist might want to be a member. I reread your WS posts and came to this conclusion of your side. For fun, what is my side?

You say "Unfortunately, the truth can't be polled, because it has nothing to do with the opinion of the majority. Truth and democracy often don't get along." I don't want to poll opinions. I posted a poll to poll numbers and statistics....that's analytical...you should like that.

I'm not picking on you but picking your brain. If it takes provocation to get it out of you, I'll play.

 

[LJVF]

Goldie - the comment about 'no sensible discussion' is about right. Most florists have dug in on the issue and can't grasp that WS work well for some and not so well for others.

I think CHR hit the nail on the head. Also, if you really read goldfish's posts closely, I think he is one of the most unbiased and fair posters on this board.

 

[TOTO]

Well then, THERE YA GO!

I am finally WS free here. FTD went in January.
TF just got their letter from me and my attny this week.

Since leaving the WS's I have had so much more time to make things for my shop, to work on my websites, to make real dollars for my shop.
Not the monopoly kind of money you get from the WS's where you work your buttons off all day, to end up with little or no money when your WS statement comes.

I see absolutely NO benefit to having a WS.

I have never had another shop refuse my split on a CC. I simply calculate the money both ways before I call them, then say you can make this much more money on this order with my CC than with the WS. They are always up for more money.

Someone needs to make a CC Split Website we could all go to, to connect with one another...Hey, maybe I'll do that, who knows.:thumbsup

I've always found it amazing when any REAL FLORIST states the facts regarding how the Wire Services have abandoned the TRADITIONAL REAL FLORISTS in favor of ORDER GATHERERS while becoming ORDER GATHERERS themselves.

After which, they have continuously raised their DUES and FEES to the point of REDICULOUS as compared to investment versus return.

BEE THAT AS IT BEE, there are others who do USE their wire service membership to THEIR ADVANTAGE, so they say, or so they think.

That's their perogative and personal business choice. In fact, and when you are a BIG TOP 100 SENDING SHOP and can get all of the FREE DEALS with other benefits that the SMALL MOM and POP SHOPS don't get, just the rebates alone are more than enough to cover any of their WS costs.

Having said that (over and over and over again), the small shops have reached the point of NO RETURN from their WS investment, and so for many, it's become THEIR TIME TO GO!

Some have referred to this ECONOMIC REALITY as WIRE SERVICE BASHING!

Then again, Mexico refers to the use of the term ILLEGAL ALIENS invading the US versus undocumented workers as both RACIST and PROFILING.

As well they should from their perspective since, these ILLEGAL ALIENS sent over 23.7 BILLION DOLLARS in remittances from the US back into Mexico in 2006. This passive stream of revenue is second to their oil revenues.

WHAT'S THE POINT THEN?

Well, all depends upon which side of the REVENUE STREAM you're on?

If you're on the INBOUND SIDE of the revenue stream, life is good and so, anyone who points out DA FACTS are BASHING someone or something, thus detrimental to your cause.

If you're on the OUTBOUND SIDE of the revenue stream, your wallet's getting raided and you question what was it that, I was supposed to get in return for all of my hard earned money? Surely not more HIGHLY DISCOUNTED ORDERS to fill with too low 1980 price points and NOTHING to cover my HIGHER COSTS of DELIVERY. Heck, I could choose to give my stuff away myself in my own neighborhood and get all the THANKS for myself.

Just another MYSTERY OF LIFE uncovered by using an EXCEL spreadsheet.

You might want to check out the Independent Florist's Association as a way to send your orders out F2F. Real cheap at only $20 per month plus the initial $40 application fee.

http://www.myifa.org/about/index.php

 

[CHR]

This is my last post in this 'discussion'.

Inferno, you have made it abundantly clear of your distaste for WSs. You have dug in on your opinion... and on numerous threads.. and, quite honestly, reflect what Goldie initially said:

Some of so-called "anti-WS" people are not interested in dialogue (and vice versa) and don't listen to those who disagree, so what's the point?

Yours is a monologue with zero concessions that a quality flower operation can benefit from WS participation.

I am not a fan of most of what WSs have done and continue to do, yet I have respect for the florists here who do find participation to be beneficial for their businesses.

Being analytical makes good business sense. Making decisions from a primarily emotional perspective can be short-sighted and costly.

Remember, the members here are really on one side - the florists' side.

 

[inferno63]

This is my last post in this 'discussion'.

Inferno, you have made it abundantly clear of your distaste for WSs. You have dug in on your opinion... and on numerous threads.. and, quite honestly, reflect what Goldie initially said: Yours is a monologue with zero concessions that a quality flower operation can benefit from WS participation.

I am not a fan of most of what WSs have done and continue to do, yet I have respect for the florists here who do find participation to be beneficial for their businesses.

Being analytical makes good business sense. Making decisions from a primarily emotional perspective can be short-sighted and costly.

Remember, the members here are really on one side - the florists' side.

Again, and again, I have said that if you are a big sender then I can see the benefits to that individual business. You must not have read all my posts or you would have already known that. In fact, I said it in this very post. But even in that case, there are fellow filling florists that are the losers. When you hurt others in the industry it hurts the whole industry. I would much rather hurt the WS than another florist.

I again, ask for your opinions. It doesn't mean that I will agree but I learn a lot when I am disagreeing.

 

[Chezbloom]

"Making decisions from a primarily emotional perspective can be short-sighted and costly."

Waaa????
Our decision to quit the WS was based (at first anyway) purely on financial and not emotional reasons.. Ok, I'm just gonna stick up for Inferno here because I started this whole thing and I don't think she is being shortsighted at all. I started this thread because I wanted more than one good reason that people thought the WS were beneficial, finally, thank you Cathy, I got a list of reasons. Bottom line....we are all trying to make a living being florists and want whats best for the industry. Stick me on Inferno's side and anyone else's side who can see the WS for what they have become.
I don't hold a grudge against anyone who is a member, but I do hold a grudge against what the WS have become. I will now shut up and go for a swim. Peace...

 

[roysecityfloristand gifts]

Inferno63...

I agree with everything you have said in spades.
I'm also offended that those of us who wish to be WS free, after having given them a fair chance, are being vilified in this thread.

I see this thread as becoming a lynching of anyone who would voice their opinion about being happy WS Free.

I have never read a thread where a WS free shop has forced their opinion down anyones throat. This forum is a give and take info situation.
Everyone needs to respect the right of others to have an opinion...and this is mine.

 

[LJVF]

"Making decisions from a primarily emotional perspective can be short-sighted and costly."

Waaa????
Our decision to quit the WS was based (at first anyway) purely on financial and not emotional reasons.. Ok, I'm just gonna stick up for Inferno here because I started this whole thing and I don't think she is being shortsighted at all. I started this thread because I wanted more than one good reason that people thought the WS were beneficial, finally, thank you Cathy, I got a list of reasons. Bottom line....we are all trying to make a living being florists and want whats best for the industry. Stick me on Inferno's side and anyone else's side who can see the WS for what they have become.
I don't hold a grudge against anyone who is a member, but I do hold a grudge against what the WS have become. I will now shut up and go for a swim. Peace...

Since CHR said her last post will be her last post on this thread, I'll try to clarify what I think she was saying.

She wasn't accusing anyone in particular of being emotional and short sighted, she was just pointing out that IF you are, it could be costly.

If anyone decides to leave wire services, just be sure you have all your ducks in order, website, Labor, etc..., because abruptly leaving could be fatal. Again, I also am not pointing the finger at anyone specifically.

 

[inferno63]

This is my last post in this 'discussion'.

Inferno, you have made it abundantly clear of your distaste for WSs. You have dug in on your opinion... and on numerous threads.. and, quite honestly, reflect what Goldie initially said: Yours is a monologue with zero concessions that a quality flower operation can benefit from WS participation.

I am not a fan of most of what WSs have done and continue to do, yet I have respect for the florists here who do find participation to be beneficial for their businesses.

Being analytical makes good business sense. Making decisions from a primarily emotional perspective can be short-sighted and costly.

Remember, the members here are really on one side - the florists' side.

I feel that goldfish is too analytical with respect to the word game and over analyzing the intent of a post.....I certainly did not refer to his business sense or anyone elses. I apologize if this wasn't clear. I think that we can all agree that if we approached our businesses from only an emotional side, we wouldn't be in business. And if I didn't respect goldie's opinion, I wouldn't keep asking for it.

 

[ivygreen]

In doing an overall evaluation of my own shop for several months, I'm in because I need to be at the moment. It's keeping me in amongst my peers in my town. It's keeping me afloat, while I work on other aspects of my business, and make it better. The poll shows many like me, and a few deliveries don't pay the bills. Discounted orders are discounted orders, but there is money there if you work at it. My shop is a work in progress, and the learning curve can be steep, I have been taken advantage of, and a lack of knowledge, and inexperience has allowed that to happen, so I have some blame in that too. That being said, belonging to wire service works for me for now. My knocks came at a price, but I am making them work for me, as I move forward. I am doing what I need to do, with my own best judgement, for me and my shop. Currently belonging to a service is part of that. It does not stop me from progressing, it does not stop me from advocating a change in wire service business, it does not stop me from disputes with them, it does not stop me from wanting better for me and my fellow florists, it does not stop me from re evaluating. It is what it is. I take what I can from my membership, capitalize on that, and keep moving forward. Until the next best thing comes along, and I'm working on that too.

Just for the record the benefits to me at the moment: ease of order placement without money up front(which no one will admit too, but is more common than not), x amount of income, x amount of stability, and a customer base to build on. It may not be much, but it's what I got for now, and no where to go but up.


Senders need fillers, fillers need senders. We just need a way for everyone to be treated more fairly.

 

[SpringCity]

ivygreen, your points make a lot of sense and i think that was the spirit that chezbloom started, if i may presume.... to find out what's good about the ws. So thanks!

 

[bloomz]

Inferno63...

I agree with everything you have said in spades.
I'm also offended that those of us who wish to be WS free, after having given them a fair chance, are being vilified in this thread.

I see this thread as becoming a lynching of anyone who would voice their opinion about being happy WS Free.

I have never read a thread where a WS free shop has forced their opinion down anyones throat. This forum is a give and take info situation.
Everyone needs to respect the right of others to have an opinion...and this is mine.

Doesn't repeating it ad nauseum qualify?

The vilifiers seem to be doing the vilifying and it ain't the wire service members.

I'm surprised any of us even take the time to respond to this crap any more, including me. (my day off tho)

and while I'm at it, Here Inferno

Welcome to the board!

You'll find a wealth of information here, but here are a couple get aquainted tips.

There is also a helpful Search link at the top of every page
Search Query section
Search for Key Words;__________________________
You can us operators here such as and or +, or you can enclose the phrase in double quotations marks "search terms" to find the entire phrase.
Below that is the Advanced Search Section

Search Options section - advanced search
Select which "Forum" to search in at a time, or at all.

For example, "wire service" I would only search in the "Wire Service" section.
Many people that are new here seem to have a common theme, frustration with the wire services. Believe me, this has been discussed hundreds of times, and it's doubtful that anything new will come from further discussion of the exact same topics that has't been already beat to death, repeatedly. Do a search, you will find discussions from before - add to an older post if you feel the need rather than starting a new one.

That's the basic way, you can limit further by using some of the other "Drop-Down" menu's like if you know the thread you are looking for is only a week or so old, etc....

Now that you have a list of threads you've searched for, do not just click on the thread you want to read. Instead RIGHT click on the thread and select "Open in New Window" This will pop up a new window with that thread in it, leaving your searched list intact for you to go back to.

The purpose of the "Search" is to offer a member the opportunity to research his/her question better. There is so much information from past threads that you may never see because that member is no longer here, or doesn't see your new post, or just won't respond to the same question. So use it to your advantage and enjoy the board! View this funny and informative film about posting and searching?BR>http://uploads.ungrounded.net/188000/188612_Posting.swf

Take a few minutes to familiarize yourself with the forum. At the top of every board there are threads that are tagged as "Sticky" These threads are "Sticky" because they contain very important/valuable information about the forum and everyone should read them.

Following these simple tips will help keep the board pertinent, and eliminate the large numbers of S-O-S posts that we get here on a daily basis, thereby making this board the valuable useful tool it can be.

But we don't want the valuable, golden money making info threads to be lost in the sea of chaff.....

and please don't just be a lurker but an active contributor!