Features and Benefits

[goldfish]

And once again.....yes, I want to hear it all. That is why I continue to respond to you.

Your side is that if the wire service is beneficial to you as a florist financially, then you can justify why a florist might want to be a member. I reread your WS posts and came to this conclusion of your side.

You are partially correct. That's only part of "my side."

Another part of my side is that it's none of my business to tell other florists what they should do in terms of WS membership. If they chose to stay with WS, so be it. If they want to divorce WS, so be it, too.

There are always two layers in WS debate: 1) financial issues and 2) political issues.

The financial issues concern with the profitability of WS membership, those of incoming orders in particular, and have been debated a numerous times in this forum. IMO, it boils down to basically two questions: 1) the number of incoming orders and 2) whether labor is a fixed expense or not.

Complication is that debate of WS membership tends to expand into political issues, such as is it "wrong" (or stupid or whatever) to support the business of our own competitors? This is a political issue, in that reasonable people can have different opinions on that. This is not a issue that we can conclude by number-crunching. And these political aspects of WS debate, too, have been debated numerous times in this forum and, usually, don't get anywhere.

For fun, what is my side?

You tell me your side. And then I will respond.

You say "Unfortunately, the truth can't be polled, because it has nothing to do with the opinion of the majority. Truth and democracy often don't get along." I don't want to poll opinions. I posted a poll to poll numbers and statistics....that's analytical...you should like that.

I will take a look, but remember that these polls are not a random poll in which respondents are selected randomly. Those who aren't interested in your poll or don't like the wording of the poll won't cast their vote. So their statistical/scientific significance is minimal.

 

[inferno63]

Just posted this in the thread with the participation poll.

I guess my opinion reaches out to the industry more than on an individual's business. Sender's make money, filler's lose money. Those filler's are a part of our industry as a whole. I feel that the WS takes advantage of the filling florist and that is why I dropped them. I want to see florists have the leverage to negotiate better terms with the WS that could maybe benefit all of us and not just the senders. As long as they have members losing their shorts filling their orders, they will continue to be the ones in control. If we united, the senders would have better terms, the filler's would have better terms, and the whole industry would thrive in a mutual partnership. But since that reality doesn't exist, then the alternative is to jump on the WS free bandwagon. And I guess that has a high importance to me and that is why I continue to take baby steps toward those goals. It helps me sleep at night.

I hope this explains my passion on the topic better.

In another thread, goldie you admit that over dependence on WS is not good for a florist and that success has more to do with business knowledge and less to do with being or not being a member of a WS. Do you not feel that filling florists that are dependent hurt us all?

 

[bloomz]

Sender's make money, filler's lose money. Those filler's are a part of our industry as a whole.

I hope this explains my passion on the topic better.

In another thread, goldie you admit that over dependence on WS is not good for a florist and that success has more to do with business knowledge and less to do with being or not being a member of a WS. Do you not feel that filling florists that are dependent hurt us all?

Who says fillers lose money?

I kow quite a few huge filling shops that make very good money.

Dummies lose money, no matter what they do.

If you were losing money - why didn't you get out sooner?


IF that shoe fits......

 

[inferno63]

Who says fillers lose money?

I kow quite a few huge filling shops that make very good money.

Dummies lose money, no matter what they do.

If you were losing money - why didn't you get out sooner?


IF that shoe fits......

I was a member of 1800 for only one year and FTD for only 6 months. I gave it enough time to make a fair assessment of the numbers and then got out quickly. I only stayed with 1800 for longer than 6 months to get the benefits they offered to stay so that I somewhat broke even before I ditched them. They gave me free membership for 6 months, credited my selection guide costs, credited my extra listing fees, online directory fees, and such so that after a year I broke even.

Was that the answer that you were hoping for? It is not supportive of your "If that shoe fits" provocation. (Oops!)

 

[inferno63]

And.....

If there are fillers out there making huge money, please sound off. I want to know who you are and how you do it. Enlighten me!

 

[bloomz]

why would they waste their time on this? They're busy making money.

You wouldn't listen anyway...

Do a search. It's yet another topic that has been hashed over maybe 500 hundred or so times...


Here's a bigger question - why couldn't you figure out how to make money from them? Free membership fees and all the rest of that?

OUCH! That's gonna leave a mark.

What size did you need that shoe to be?


OK here's one - my shop makes money on incoming and we welcome all non-skimmed orders..

 

[inferno63]

In doing an overall evaluation of my own shop for several months, I'm in because I need to be at the moment. It's keeping me in amongst my peers in my town. It's keeping me afloat, while I work on other aspects of my business, and make it better. The poll shows many like me, and a few deliveries don't pay the bills. Discounted orders are discounted orders, but there is money there if you work at it. My shop is a work in progress, and the learning curve can be steep, I have been taken advantage of, and a lack of knowledge, and inexperience has allowed that to happen, so I have some blame in that too. That being said, belonging to wire service works for me for now. My knocks came at a price, but I am making them work for me, as I move forward. I am doing what I need to do, with my own best judgement, for me and my shop. Currently belonging to a service is part of that. It does not stop me from progressing, it does not stop me from advocating a change in wire service business, it does not stop me from disputes with them, it does not stop me from wanting better for me and my fellow florists, it does not stop me from re evaluating. It is what it is. I take what I can from my membership, capitalize on that, and keep moving forward. Until the next best thing comes along, and I'm working on that too.

Just for the record the benefits to me at the moment: ease of order placement without money up front(which no one will admit too, but is more common than not), x amount of income, x amount of stability, and a customer base to build on. It may not be much, but it's what I got for now, and no where to go but up.


Senders need fillers, fillers need senders. We just need a way for everyone to be treated more fairly.

I think this is the kind of answer that Chez and then I was looking for. I think some of you WS people are too defensive and assuming too much about motive. Thank you Ivy!

 

[inferno63]

why would they waste their time on this? They're busy making money.

You wouldn't listen anyway...

Do a search. It's yet another topic that has been hashed over a hundred or so times...


Here's a bigger question - why couldn't you figure out how to make money from them? Free membership fees and all the rest of that?

OUCH! That's gonna leave a mark.

What size did you need that shoe to be?


OK here's one - my shop makes money on incoming and we welcome all non-skimmed orders..

Let me demonstrate how to communicate without being a neanderthal.

The free membership and credits were not forever....only intended to appease me long enough to keep me filling for them and on their books. If they offered all that free forever we wouldn't be debating this and I would be wearing your shoes!

And if you are making money on incoming, are you offsetting with outgoing or are you just that much of a high volume filler?

Now put down your ego and I will put down my pride, and just discuss this.

 

[Chezbloom]

why would they waste their time on this? They're busy making money.

You wouldn't listen anyway...

Do a search. It's yet another topic that has been hashed over a hundred or so times...


Here's a bigger question - why couldn't you figure out how to make money from them? Free membership fees and all the rest of that?

OUCH! That's gonna leave a mark.

What size did you need that shoe to be?


OK here's one - my shop makes money on incoming and we welcome all non-skimmed orders..

Wow,

That is just really truely rude. I'm sorry I ever asked the question of:
What are the benefits of WS other than sending? I never thought it would generate such ugly comments and create a divide. Maybe someone should just erase the whole freak'n thread.

 

[bloomz]

HEY! My ancestors were neanderthal! Are you slamming my family origins now?

Thanks inferno but I think I'll just go in the closet and talk to the wall.


wanna play more red dots?

 

[LJVF]

Since CHR said her last post will be her last post on this thread, I'll try to clarify what I think she was saying.

She wasn't accusing anyone in particular of being emotional and short sighted, she was just pointing out that IF you are, it could be costly.

If anyone decides to leave wire services, just be sure you have all your ducks in order, website, Labor, etc..., because abruptly leaving could be fatal. Again, I also am not pointing the finger at anyone specifically.

For the person who negged me, please pm me with an explanation of how my post (quoted above) is "dead horse beating". I would have pm'd you with this, but you didn't sign your screen name.

I noticed that Ryan's temporary change on the board has eliminated the reputation notification alert (at least for me), some of you who are interested, may want to check your control panels for red or green dots.

 

[inferno63]

HEY! My ancestors were neanderthal! Are you slamming my family origins now?

Thanks inferno but I think I'll just go in the closet and talk to the wall.


wanna play more red dots?

So everyone can be in the know....I gave bloomz a red dot for this comment to me in the thread:

"You wouldn't listen anyway..."

I am saying over and over that I am listening but he won't answer my questions without spiteful remarks. So he red-dotted me back.

 

[bloomz]

I guess you don't realize that it gets offensive being basically called stupid over and over and over, or getting demands to explain stuff that's been rehashed about 847 times before huh?

Maybe I'll post a poll - "Are you sick of this continuous anti wire crap by non wire members?"

Going back in the closet now.

 

[roysecityfloristand gifts]

Well here I go...I thought this forum was for non (or former) WS members as well. But today those of us who chose to leave the WS's have been attacked on a very personal level. A level I don't believe I have seen since joining.

What is next, eating our young????

Lets agree to have varying opinions with regard to the WS's.

No one is calling WS affiliated shop owners Stupid, as was stated.
And, non WS shops are not necessarily the persons initiating these volitale WS Pro/Con threads.

We all know that there are some shops that are in areas which allow them to send lots of orders, thereby making a profit via the WS's. I believe that all of us are truely happy for you. But those are very few in "number" comparisons. The majority of shops, (not all Mom and Pops) cannot make money as WS members.

The ethics of the WS's at this time, are such that they care only about their bottom line, and until that fact changes, I will not contribute $$ to their pockets. Ethics are important to me.

 

[goldfish]

In another thread, goldie you admit that over dependence on WS is not good for a florist and that success has more to do with business knowledge and less to do with being or not being a member of a WS. Do you not feel that filling florists that are dependent hurt us all?

Not at all. Why should I feel that way? They are not doing anything illegal.

For example, our shop chose not to fill for some of the most egregious OGs. But to those other shops who chose to fill for them, I have no problem with that.

It simply means that we and they have different opinions. They have theirs and I have mine.

 

[goldfish]

I am saying over and over that I am listening but he won't answer my questions without spiteful remarks.

What are your questions? I will answer.

 

[TOTO]

Well JB, at least now you know how......................

I guess you don't realize that it gets offensive being basically called stupid over and over and over, or getting demands to explain stuff that's been rehashed about 847 times before huh?

Maybe I'll post a poll - "Are you sick of this continuous anti wire crap by non wire members?"

Going back in the closet now.

Just have to say it JB!

At least, now you know how President Bush must feel as he is continually attacked daily by the far left for doing his JOB 1, protecting the American People from Harm by the al-Qaeda Jihadist Terrorists.

OK, now you can go into back into your closet and say your mea culpas.

 

[bloomz]

Poor Presidunce Boosch.

Difference is - he IS stupid.

 

[TOTO]

Hey, don't get DUPED or SNOOKERED by anyone!

Just posted this in the thread with the participation poll.

I guess my opinion reaches out to the industry more than on an individual's business. Sender's make money, filler's lose money. Those filler's are a part of our industry as a whole. I feel that the WS takes advantage of the filling florist and that is why I dropped them. I want to see florists have the leverage to negotiate better terms with the WS that could maybe benefit all of us and not just the senders. As long as they have members losing their shorts filling their orders, they will continue to be the ones in control. If we united, the senders would have better terms, the filler's would have better terms, and the whole industry would thrive in a mutual partnership. But since that reality doesn't exist, then the alternative is to jump on the WS free bandwagon. And I guess that has a high importance to me and that is why I continue to take baby steps toward those goals. It helps me sleep at night.

I hope this explains my passion on the topic better.

In another thread, goldie you admit that over dependence on WS is not good for a florist and that success has more to do with business knowledge and less to do with being or not being a member of a WS. Do you not feel that filling florists that are dependent hurt us all?

You uncovered the WS MYSTERY OF LIFE all by yourself INFERNO, and so, don't get duped or snookered by others who try to sway your opinion based on your own discovery of DA FACTS!

And, make NO APOLOGIES to anyone for your opinions!

Stick to your guns and do your own thing and that's always anything that will increase YOUR PROFITS in YOUR SHOP, not drain them.

There are some folks on the FC board who are on the sending side, and so, they need to keep the WS DREAM ALIVE since, their SENDING FLOW cannot go unless they have FILLER EBB to make them dough.

And then, we have the FILLER SIDE, who insist they make SOMETHING since they only ever look at the surface discount of 30% and never add in their annual dues and fees to arrive at the REALLY NET of fifty four cents on their filling dollar when ALL OF THE WS SMOKE CLEARS.

No matter though since, their help was standing around anyway and their truck was going passed there anyway, and besides, they got their products into the home of a potential new customer, which Herb Mitchell referred to as the SANTA CLAUS MYTH!

And lastly, we even have a few of the WARM and FUZZY FOLKS!

They are the ones who are always positive about anything and everything, but only when they choose to post on anything or everything! Otherwise, they just stay out of the fray.

I've come in contact with those folks many times in my past 41 years of DOO-ING the DOO! Fact is that, those folks are always ALL ABOUT THEMSELVES. It's a self marketing ploy intended to keep all roads open to them, just in case, a new opportunity presents itself down their road.

All it comes down to is this. They are FRIENDS OF EVERYONE and ENEMIES OF NO ONE! In fact, it's a rare occurrence that they ever take an opposing position on any subject other than, to attack the messengers who OPPOSE A POSITION!

How many times in my past have I worked with an FSR for years and then, one day, he's working for another WS. And then, a year or two down the road, and when that WS is bought up by a bigger WS, he's back working for the old/new INC WS. Or, the DUCK AREA VP REP moves on to become the INC AREA VP REP. Or, the old John Henry REP becomes the new 800 REP.

They say that, a leopard never changes his spots, but in the WS GAME, that must be the exception rather than the rule. The fact that we have lots of Leopards in the WS game is a given! The fact that, they are forever changing their spots now, seems to be their new rule.

Suffice it to say that, and in the words of my own old AFSR: " MY ALLEGIANCE IS TO THE COMPANY WHO SIGNS MY CHECKS! "

And since I could always read between the lines, my comment would read: " AND SO, SINCE THE FLORISTS DON'T SIGN MY CHECKS, THEY WILL NEVER HAVE MY ALLEGIANCE! "

Which then brings us all to the point!

Your ALLEGIANCE, like mine, will always be to the COMPANY who signs my checks, and in my case, THAT WOULD BEE MEE!

In closing, make no apologies to anyone for what you already know to be the TRUTH regarding the WS PONZI SCHEME. It's always been a very simple scam. The SENDERS MAKE ALL THE MONEY and THE FILLERS LOOSE ALL THE MONEY! It's always been just that simple!

The only real difference today, is in the fact that, the WSs finally figured it all out for themselves, which is why, THEY TOO became FLORAL ORDER GATHERERS, and DIRECT FLOWER and GIFT DROP SHIPPERS, and at the bigger expense of THEIR MEMBER FILLER FOOLS!

In the end, it begs the really bigger question; Why would any REAL FLORIST send their hard earned money to any of their biggest FLORAL ORDER COMPETITORS while remaining content in being used as that company's subcontracted SAME-DAY-DELIVERY vendor and FREE LABOR and FREE DELIVERY $ERVICE FORCE at chump change back from their net dollar?

Must be the same people who believe that, the SOCIAL SECURITY TRUST FUND is kept in a LOCK BOX in WASHINGTON, and all their 15.30% of payroll wage taxes is under lock and key just waiting for them at retirement.

Even when you tell them that, the only thing in the lock box is an I.O.U. since the Government takes all of that money as soon as it comes in, and uses it to balance their annual budget, thus adding the I.O.U. to their annual BUDGET DEFICIT, those folks will tell you that, NO, IT AIN'T SO!

Seems that, nobody ever told them that, LBJ started to raid our SSI TRUST FUND to pay for the Democrat's Vietnam War back in 1968 and all Congresses since then, have continued the SSI TRUST FUND raid since then.

I suppose we shouldn't really use the word STUPID to describe the folks, who are caught up in the KOOL AID mind set, so I'm up for a discussion on what the right word should be?

 

[Mikey the Flower Guy]

With ALL due respect, I will NOT allow this thread to "degenerate" into a pro/anti wire service war.....
For the record, I AM a wire service member, and I DO make money on BOTH incoming and outgoing orders, and I WILL continue to be a member so long as even a NICKEL is to be made to MY benefit!!
For those, that this "equation" does NOT work, NEED to move on, and NOT continue this insane "debate", and for THOSE that HAVE left the wire services, guess what, REAL FLORISTS will STILL service YOUR clients, whether OR not, they are wire service shops.
I am PERSONALLY insulted by these unnecessary diatribes of some imaginary war game that benefits ONLY the winner...we ALL have something to lose, if this path continues, and SHAME on ANY of you, who even remotely think your "opinion" will alter the course of ANY particular florist shop owner/operator.
IF you DON'T like the answers your getting, DON'T keep asking the SAME questions such as "my side" or "your side" unless you're getting up out of a seat in the bus, for an elderly person, OR climbing INTO the closet with Bloomz