If I can find it quickly, it's in a box of old stuff at my dads house....
Still have the painted door panels of our 1948 Woody delivery wagon too...
Florists For Change
- Thread starter BOSS
- Start date
Still have the painted door panels of our 1948 Woody delivery wagon too...
I assumed that FTD.com was a major source of revenue for FTD. They are by far the biggest OG hitting Chattanooga. FTD.com sends more orders than all other sources combined over the merc. For this reason alone, I do not think they will be receptive to any changes. I also, know that they had a hell of a time getting orders filled this Mother's Day, and that helped my in house sales quite a bit.
anytimeflowers
Linda
You are right Jamie, FTD is not going to be receptive to this at all. I honestly think that their behavior in the last two years but specifically in the last six months has a lot to do with this Florists For Change movement. Some of the organizers are possibly FTD's biggest hitters and they got run over by all of the deceptive bs FTD has pulled. This is just a theory on my part, but with so many florists closing their doors for various reasons, even the big hitters including FTD are realizing this industry has very nearly reached critical mass. Clearly something needs to happen on a large scale.
Remember FTD was started by a few large florists and it was good to and for florists for 80 some years before it really went to heck, and "coincidentally" that was the same time that it was no longer in the hands of florists. There are those who are well aware of the facts and certainly know that the possibility to build something new is but a very small stretch of the imagination.
In addition to everything that FTD has done to degrade this industry in the pursuit of bigger dividends, they are one of the most prevalent purveyors of affiliate sites. What they are doing with this is possibly the worst because most of the affiliates that I've researched bump up the price of FTD designs by $10 to offer a large commission to MORE affiliates. It boggles the mind at how much money the consumer is spending and FTD is stamped on all of it. This is why members of FTD are scattering away from something that clearly is self-destructing. FTD is going to continue to try more ways of bringing in the numbers for their shareholders in whatever way they can, and smart florists want nothing to do with the impending bang let alone the shock waves that will touch anyone left with an FTD stamp on them.
jmo
Remember FTD was started by a few large florists and it was good to and for florists for 80 some years before it really went to heck, and "coincidentally" that was the same time that it was no longer in the hands of florists. There are those who are well aware of the facts and certainly know that the possibility to build something new is but a very small stretch of the imagination.
In addition to everything that FTD has done to degrade this industry in the pursuit of bigger dividends, they are one of the most prevalent purveyors of affiliate sites. What they are doing with this is possibly the worst because most of the affiliates that I've researched bump up the price of FTD designs by $10 to offer a large commission to MORE affiliates. It boggles the mind at how much money the consumer is spending and FTD is stamped on all of it. This is why members of FTD are scattering away from something that clearly is self-destructing. FTD is going to continue to try more ways of bringing in the numbers for their shareholders in whatever way they can, and smart florists want nothing to do with the impending bang let alone the shock waves that will touch anyone left with an FTD stamp on them.
jmo
Doug Munro
Well-Known Member
And we wonder why our industry is suffering? Let me get this straight, your desire is to see someone put time, effort, and money into developing a nationwide (or potentially global) system that ensures that the florist receives 100% of the order. I would assume that as a user of such a system that you would expect it to relatively efficient and problem free. As well it would have to constantly evolve to stay current with technology and consumer needs. Add to that the fact support would need to be provided to florists on the system.
Now the best part, your concept see's someone doing this out of the goodness of their heat in an effort to improve your bottom line. Wait a minute, aren't you operating as a organizational non- profit? lol this is just too funny ( I checked the date on this one to make sure it was not April 1st).
Doug Munro
Well-Known Member
I put this in the wire service forum, because that's where much of the current state of affairs we find our industry in began.
On August 17th, there is a meeting in Las Vegas, (coincidentally so is TF's executive meeting) to formulate a "new deal", a new direction, a better system. This is being organized by some of the brightest, biggest and best florists in the US, and some of us regulars too... those at the top of the pile seem to have finally had enough, have come to understand that if something is not done now, it will soon be too late to do anything.
I can't talk about the who's who... there will be some florists like Charley Kremp and Weasley that will not really like the proposed outcome of this meeting. Suffice it to say, there are enough large florists organizing to force the wires to make some drastic changes. FTD is aware of this meeting and is none too happy, TF too knows about it, and as I have said before "they are more florist friendly", want it to go forward, and also want a meeting after the one I'm talking about.
Everything is on the table, a change in percentages, I've heard 90/10 and even 95/5 with a clearing house cut coming out of the 5%... no reciprocity fees, no rebates, no this and no that... better this and better that... who knows...
It would be nice to get 1000 florists to show up to show their support for the key group trying to do something about the sad state of affairs this industry has become in some ways.
You can follow the group and learn more as time goes on at https://www.facebook.com/pages/Florists-For-Change/219462131426614 on FaceBook. Please "LIKE" the page...
I'll try hard over the next month to not complain about the wires (too much) the time has come for positive change. It will take florists to make that happen!
Doug, I'd love to see you there
Boss,
Before replying I took the time to go though this entire thread and read every post> I must say that it is great to see a group of florists working together as a team or at least potentially, as of yet no one has been asked to actually spend or contribute money ( other than enjoying a trip to Vegas).
However I do have a number of comments
First, I find it interesting that many of the individuals supporting this concept have many a time proudly stated they are wire service free. I mention this as with the focus of this being on the wire services these folks really don't have much stake in the matter, they have made their choice.
Secondly I found it comical that within the first three pages of this thread it became a platform for two competing technologies to sell the merits of their system over everyone else's.
Third, once again as an industry we go above and beyond the call of duty to shoot ourselves in the foot. Really.... a public Facebook page to discuss the mechanics, percentages, and perceived injustices of the floral industry. What is the next step? A billboard in Times Square.
Last, as customers of the wire services you want to determine what margins they are allowed to charge and ultimately if they are entitled to make a profit. In fact by default (by adjusting the sending commissions) you also wish to dictate what margins you competitors can make as well.
Will this same option to dictate margins and profitability be provided by you to your own customers in regards to how you operate your flower shop? Probably not, but hey if they don't like the way you do business they can go elsewhere....... right? Wait a minute isn't that same option open to the florist or has someone made Wire Service membership mandatory.
In summary, as much as I would enjoy a trip to Vegas, I will instead stay at home and focus my energies on improving business for our own stores.
If you could forward me the minutes of the meeting and let me know when the next one will be that would be great.
Thanks
secretgarden
Well-Known Member
Doug Munro
Well-Known Member
Doug is saying the same thing that I, a NON-business owner, have said all along. we have to start fixing things in our own shops. I once posed the question.....it ties in with this very well.
Here it is again, Are you or are you not the leading florist in your town? Are you or are you not the go-to place for flowers? Are you or are you not the ruler by which all other shops in your town are measured by? Do you fall short of them or do they fall short of you?
National organizations are good, fighting the d"OG's is good, but that fight has to start in one place and one place only......IN YOUR OWN SHOP.
Here it is again, Are you or are you not the leading florist in your town? Are you or are you not the go-to place for flowers? Are you or are you not the ruler by which all other shops in your town are measured by? Do you fall short of them or do they fall short of you?
National organizations are good, fighting the d"OG's is good, but that fight has to start in one place and one place only......IN YOUR OWN SHOP.
This may not be the RIGHT PLACE for the following comments, but they may be apropos.
I have come across a National Business Model that has, I believe, potential for application to the floral industry.
The story starts with the fact that I am hearing impaired. (That sounds a lot better than, “going deaf,” doesn’t it!)
Over the years, I have established a great relationship with my audiologist. Like me, he is an entrepreneur, and we have spent considerable time comparing business situations. Some years ago, he enumerated some of the challenges facing an independent audiologist’s practice:
When I first met my audiologist about 5 years ago, he was about as un-optomistic about HIS industry as I was about the floral industry.
Today, when I went in for a one-week evaluation of my new hearing devices, I found him bubbling with enthusiasm at how his practice has grown and how comfortable he felt in dealing with all aspects of his chosen profession.
I asked him why, and he told me about a for-profit company that helped him revolutionize his business. Their business model is like nothing I have ever seen.
First, they are selective in membership. An applicant is thoroughly screened on all aspects of the business before they are brought in. They continuously monitor each practice for quality, customer satisfaction, etc. They provide extensive training in marketing & business organization.
Second, they screen the industry for the best measuring equipment, best business hardware and software and best training tools to help their members master them.
Third, since their membership represents a large market for device manufacturers, they negotiate product prices that are MUCH below prices that an individual audiologist could obtain.
The company is NOT a co-op. It is NOT a franchise. It is privately held. It is called Audigy.
Their website is: http://www.audigypro.com/index.html
This company deserves attention because their (successful) business model seems very close to that which should be successful in the floral industry. Who knows? Maybe they might be interested in branching out.
FLORIGY anyone?
All the best,
Bill
I have come across a National Business Model that has, I believe, potential for application to the floral industry.
The story starts with the fact that I am hearing impaired. (That sounds a lot better than, “going deaf,” doesn’t it!)
Over the years, I have established a great relationship with my audiologist. Like me, he is an entrepreneur, and we have spent considerable time comparing business situations. Some years ago, he enumerated some of the challenges facing an independent audiologist’s practice:
- National Brands often take orders direct and then send the customer to a local company for fitting. The local company receives a “fitting fee” that barely covers costs.
- If there are problems with customer satisfaction, there is no clear delineation of responsibility since the local audiologist has no idea what the customer’s expectations are.
- In a worst-case scenario, if the customer is not satisfied, the National Brand will refund the customer’s purchase and the fitting fee will not be paid.
- The local audiologist has no expectation of obtaining future business or of receiving referrals because the customer is not “his” customer.
- A local audiologist has difficulty being price-competitive because National Brand companies have greater buying power and have no local overhead costs.
- Audiologists are trained to assess customer situations, determine possible solutions and implement those solutions. They are NOT trained in accounting, marketing, Human Resources or business organization.
When I first met my audiologist about 5 years ago, he was about as un-optomistic about HIS industry as I was about the floral industry.
Today, when I went in for a one-week evaluation of my new hearing devices, I found him bubbling with enthusiasm at how his practice has grown and how comfortable he felt in dealing with all aspects of his chosen profession.
I asked him why, and he told me about a for-profit company that helped him revolutionize his business. Their business model is like nothing I have ever seen.
First, they are selective in membership. An applicant is thoroughly screened on all aspects of the business before they are brought in. They continuously monitor each practice for quality, customer satisfaction, etc. They provide extensive training in marketing & business organization.
Second, they screen the industry for the best measuring equipment, best business hardware and software and best training tools to help their members master them.
Third, since their membership represents a large market for device manufacturers, they negotiate product prices that are MUCH below prices that an individual audiologist could obtain.
The company is NOT a co-op. It is NOT a franchise. It is privately held. It is called Audigy.
Their website is: http://www.audigypro.com/index.html
This company deserves attention because their (successful) business model seems very close to that which should be successful in the floral industry. Who knows? Maybe they might be interested in branching out.
FLORIGY anyone?
All the best,
Bill
lori042499
Well-Known Member
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secretgarden
Well-Known Member
I are not saying that they are to blame for EVERYTHING that is wrong with the industry.
For the record I have been wire service free since March 1st and have never been happier.
I am a firm believer in change happens from within. My point was ~ What is the harm in florists coming together to help each other! Is that not what we do right here on flowerchat everyday. I don't think that anyone is going to wave a magic wand and the wire services are going to go away, or the order gathers, or the competition down the street.
We all sit here and complain about what the wire services are doing, the images, the fees, the POS machines, the unfair treatment. Now some people want to get together and discuss how to make it better. Will it work, who knows. Will they have one meeting and be done, who knows. What I am saying is that if florists can finally see that there bottom lines are what they they once were, that they are not making ends meet, that they have to lay folks off... if they can see what is causing that, they can change it. I found out what was bleeding us dry and removed it. Not everyone is there yet. Maybe sitting in a room with a bunch of others will give them the strength to take back their business, just like an AA meeting gives some the strength to not drink.
I see on here everyday comments about how most florists are not good business people, they are design driven and not number driven. Well it looks to me like a bunch of them just woke up from a very bad dream.
I don't need anyone to solve the problems for me, sometimes we just need someone to listen.
The union thing was a bad analogy I guess because it was taken wrong. What I was trying to say is if a group comes together looking to better THE INDUSTRY then who are we to shoot them down. We have to remember that what happens in the outside world effects our shops. If joey ordered flowers from FTD and got burned, next year Joey is going to try the edible arrangements instead. He will not search for a local florist, he will not pass go, he will collect his strawberries and pineapple and go home.
For the record I have been wire service free since March 1st and have never been happier.
I am a firm believer in change happens from within. My point was ~ What is the harm in florists coming together to help each other! Is that not what we do right here on flowerchat everyday. I don't think that anyone is going to wave a magic wand and the wire services are going to go away, or the order gathers, or the competition down the street.
We all sit here and complain about what the wire services are doing, the images, the fees, the POS machines, the unfair treatment. Now some people want to get together and discuss how to make it better. Will it work, who knows. Will they have one meeting and be done, who knows. What I am saying is that if florists can finally see that there bottom lines are what they they once were, that they are not making ends meet, that they have to lay folks off... if they can see what is causing that, they can change it. I found out what was bleeding us dry and removed it. Not everyone is there yet. Maybe sitting in a room with a bunch of others will give them the strength to take back their business, just like an AA meeting gives some the strength to not drink.
I see on here everyday comments about how most florists are not good business people, they are design driven and not number driven. Well it looks to me like a bunch of them just woke up from a very bad dream.
I don't need anyone to solve the problems for me, sometimes we just need someone to listen.
The union thing was a bad analogy I guess because it was taken wrong. What I was trying to say is if a group comes together looking to better THE INDUSTRY then who are we to shoot them down. We have to remember that what happens in the outside world effects our shops. If joey ordered flowers from FTD and got burned, next year Joey is going to try the edible arrangements instead. He will not search for a local florist, he will not pass go, he will collect his strawberries and pineapple and go home.
And this is the paradox that has helped to cripple the industry for so long.
The majority of florists view marketing as too expensive, too complicated and too risky to get involved in it ...
And yet they place no value on the work of those who are doing it successfully.
Note 1: I said majority, not all florists
Note 2: I'm talking about effective marketing, not lying about your business name and location
Even B&M shops that build up a large outgoing volume too often get painted as enemies of the "real florists".
Then there are those few who are willing to pay $45k for a very fancy web site, $10k monthly for SEO, or printing and design costs for multiple customer outreaches in a year.
Now clearly I'm not saying everyone should spend that kind of money, but these shops are taking initiative and understanding the value of marketing their own businesses.
In this discussion we have a group of florists who are willing to take time away from their own businesses to fly to a meeting at their own expense, on their own initiative, to discuss the state of the industry. If you don't like the proposed agenda, give them feedback with suggestions. Just having strong numbers in attendance will make a statement, even if this first meeting doesn't directly hit on your complaint of choice.
Lots of people talk. Few act. Someone else has taken the lead ... are we going to get involved, or hurl stones from the sidelines? Those who are involved get to set the direction.
Doug Munro
Well-Known Member
Lori,
The fact is that I am fully in support of change, and frankly positive change will never occur unless all levels of this industry pull together. What I am not comfortable with is a closed door meeting where a "witch hunt" is conducted and those being accused are not welcome.
In your statement above I have bolded a reference that I find extremely interesting. You allude to the strength that an AA meeting provides to individuals, one of the things that is required from an individual when attending an AA meeting is honesty. Having attended a number of AA birthdays for relatives and friends over the years, AA members will introduce themselves at meetings as "Hi I am Joe and I am an alcoholic". Maybe what "Florists For Change" needs is an honest introduction for it's attendee's, here is what I would suggest
"Hi I am Joe and I am solely responsible for the success or failure of my flower business"
Now before you laugh, think about it, or better yet read a months worth of posts on this board and you will probably find that for every one individual that takes actual personal responsibility for how poorly their flower shop is doing there will be 99 who blame their failure on the WS's or OG's . Unfortunately, making attendee's admit to this in an introduction would probably mean there would be an awful lot of empty seats....lol.
Lets face it for someone to succeed they must start by realizing that the power for their business to succeed or fail is theirs alone.
anytimeflowers
Linda
bootcampguy
Well-Known Member
Ryan is so right. You have to spend money to make money and the money you spend has to be "good" money. Money that will have results in growing your sales, marketing your store, etc. They (ws or og) don't really bother me that much. My campers are happy, get a good value, love me and my store and I'm smarter than they are (sorry)......I take accounts from them almost daily, like taking candy from a baby.
Now, if I we're an OG, I would consider legal action against this group in a heartbeat. I hope they have a corporation on file and then have O & D insurance. Just call FTD and Tele and ask them how much they spend on legal each year and how many lawyers they have on staff. They all have numerous lawyers on staff and when a group of people get together for the purpose the "changing the industry" and they are left out, then that's when people get their panties in a wad. I'm not trying to be a speak bad here, I agree with the group.....................but everyone needs to say this line every morning when they wake up:
Now, if I we're an OG, I would consider legal action against this group in a heartbeat. I hope they have a corporation on file and then have O & D insurance. Just call FTD and Tele and ask them how much they spend on legal each year and how many lawyers they have on staff. They all have numerous lawyers on staff and when a group of people get together for the purpose the "changing the industry" and they are left out, then that's when people get their panties in a wad. I'm not trying to be a speak bad here, I agree with the group.....................but everyone needs to say this line every morning when they wake up:
"Hi I am Joe and I am solely responsible for the success or failure of my flower business"
steve
Well-Known Member
Ya know over the years I have said my peace and thrown around more then a few ideas in here. I am not getting rich in this business by any means and I have had to close one location but I absolutly believe the time is now if we are going to set a new path for this industry and try to regain our footing. And yes there is more wrong in this industry then just the wire services and there enabling of the order gatherers. Ryan is right very few do real marketing in this industry. A yellow page line listing and a sign on your building is not going to get it done. At any rate I just bellied up to the bar and bought my plain ticket and I am going to see if I can be part of the solution vs the problem.
secretgarden
Well-Known Member
Thank you Steve for saying what I was trying too. I understand that "work" goes into gathering orders. We never went after wire outs but I am sure that is true. Do I think that standing at the counter and having the customer walk in and hand me a sheet of paper with a name and address entitles me to 20% of that order, nope. That is my opinion. The real work will be done on the other end. In the producing and the delivery of said arrangement. That is where we differ, that is where the order gatherers (be it shops, headquarters, or dogs) will always differ from fillers.
What I do see this as is an opportunity for florists to see other options. Rick can testify to the fact that at Illinois State Convention more people attended his talk then all of the design shows put together. Why? Because they are hungry for the knowledge. They know something is wrong but they don't know how to fix it. Maybe this meeting will give some information on solutions. Maybe they want to be part of that solution by sharing ideas. Who knows it may be one big gripe fest. The fact is they are DOING SOMETHING FOR THE BETTERMENT OF THEIR SHOP. Even if this goes nowhere they are taking ownership, they are bellying up to the bar. Kudos to them and in taking this step.
By the way, "Hi I am Lori and I am solely responsible for the success or failure of my flower business"
Hi bootcampguy,
The people who have been working to set-up this meeting include Keith Hill - Beaverton Florists, Beaverton, OR, Betsy Hall - Hall's Flowershop and Garden Center, Stone Mountain, GA, Dirk Lorenz - Fremont Flowers, Fremont, CA, and me, Mike Fiannaca, Sparks Florist, Reno and Sparks, NV. Go to www.floristsforchange.com to see our agenda framework and to get more info. This meeting will be by florists and for florists. Florists for Change is 100% INDEPENDENT of any wire service, and this meeting will be as well. We think it's high time that real florists get together and talk about the state of our industry, but we are not at all interested in having a complaint session or in bashing wire services. We are simply looking for consensus regarding positive ways in which we can improve the value our customers receive, specifically from wire orders, and thereby how we can improve our industry and our businesses. We're not wolves. We're just concerned brick and mortar florists. Please consider attending. We need your voice.
The people who have been working to set-up this meeting include Keith Hill - Beaverton Florists, Beaverton, OR, Betsy Hall - Hall's Flowershop and Garden Center, Stone Mountain, GA, Dirk Lorenz - Fremont Flowers, Fremont, CA, and me, Mike Fiannaca, Sparks Florist, Reno and Sparks, NV. Go to www.floristsforchange.com to see our agenda framework and to get more info. This meeting will be by florists and for florists. Florists for Change is 100% INDEPENDENT of any wire service, and this meeting will be as well. We think it's high time that real florists get together and talk about the state of our industry, but we are not at all interested in having a complaint session or in bashing wire services. We are simply looking for consensus regarding positive ways in which we can improve the value our customers receive, specifically from wire orders, and thereby how we can improve our industry and our businesses. We're not wolves. We're just concerned brick and mortar florists. Please consider attending. We need your voice.
Rick is right, expect litigation. FTD has sued more than one company for not letting them abuse their advertising system. I doubt I will go because on the new website everything involved in "changing our industry" involves working with the wire services. Screw them. They had their chance and blew it. The people in charge of the wire services are not concerned about the future of the industry because they will be selling their shares when the time is right to go buy another Bentley. That's just how it is.
Do you think we are going to go enlighten the execs at the wire services? They know what they are doing. They know the end game, and they know how much money is going to change hands before the collapse.
Do you think they are going to say, "Oh, you mean all the money we have been draining from those people all this time is hurting their bottom line?! I am sooo sorry. Lets make it easy for them to get rich with our money"
THEY DO NOT CARE. This is a business venture for them. They knew that they could not get Mother's Day flowers delivered to my zipcode. I turned off my Merc 8 days before mother's day. I told my rep a month before that I would not be doing any mother's day orders for FTD. They did not respond with responsibility. They still took dozens (possibly hundreds) of orders just so the customer would not call local. They fought the customers over refunds on non-delivered items. They lie to the customer, they lie to the filling florist.
Do you think we are going to go enlighten the execs at the wire services? They know what they are doing. They know the end game, and they know how much money is going to change hands before the collapse.
Do you think they are going to say, "Oh, you mean all the money we have been draining from those people all this time is hurting their bottom line?! I am sooo sorry. Lets make it easy for them to get rich with our money"
THEY DO NOT CARE. This is a business venture for them. They knew that they could not get Mother's Day flowers delivered to my zipcode. I turned off my Merc 8 days before mother's day. I told my rep a month before that I would not be doing any mother's day orders for FTD. They did not respond with responsibility. They still took dozens (possibly hundreds) of orders just so the customer would not call local. They fought the customers over refunds on non-delivered items. They lie to the customer, they lie to the filling florist.