Florists For Change

[bootcampguy]

.........." You never know who is naked until the tide goes out"

Well folks, the tide is out and blaming the guy next to you for having the common sense to prepare and wear his swimsuit will not change the fact that you are "naked" and scrambling to cover up. So if "Florists For Change" really wants to help this industry this should be the focus, improving your own business skills and learning how to compete in today's world. On a personal front, our company is working hard to introduce new products, new packaging, new technology, more education, and last but certainly not least generate more business for our stores.

Your quote is very close, I couldn't agree more. I highlighted the most important areas. We have to re-vamp oursleves and then do what we do best, SELL FLOWERS......

 

[kt4ye]

Because it costs a lot of money to acquire a new customer! So, if the FTD.com's of the world were not doing it who would?

This sounds like a DEFENCE of what FTD.com did.

If their goal had been to CREATE a new customer, that would have been a positive step for the industry. (Remember the "Buzz The Bee" ads featuring an ex-NFL Player? THAT helped the entire industry.)

Instead, FTD directed all their efforts into acguiring (STEALING) existing customers from local shops.

IMNTBHO

Bill

 

[Doug Munro]

Your quote is very close, I couldn't agree more. I highlighted the most important areas. We have to re-vamp oursleves and then do what we do best, SELL FLOWERS......

The most important areas?
The ones that you highlighted are in fact simply a means to an end, the most important statement in that line is "generate more business", but no fears this is the one that often gets missed in retail flower shops.

We are however in complete agreement

 

[Doug Munro]

This sounds like a DEFENCE of what FTD.com did.

If their goal had been to CREATE a new customer, that would have been a positive step for the industry. (Remember the "Buzz The Bee" ads featuring an ex-NFL Player? THAT helped the entire industry.)

Instead, FTD directed all their efforts into acguiring (STEALING) existing customers from local shops.

IMNTBHO

Bill

Bill,

So none of those orders FTD acquired came from Proflowers or 1-800 (who by the way does over 13 million orders a year)? Is the assumption here that if FTD.com did not exist all 4 million or so orders they process each year would have simply gone directly to the florist?

As for defending what FTD did, let them do that themselves. I will say however that FTD simply did what many others were doing, using technology to improve their business.

 

[roysecityfloristand gifts]

I'm curious is the current purpose of the group to eliminate WS's from the equation or to attempt to improve the deal with them?
I wouldn't want to continue to dance with the devil simply because he has agreed not to step on my toes as much.

For me, I think we have the WS's almost on the ropes. This would be the time to try and eliminate them from our lives. Sure there are
those who are tied to them because they bought POS systems and contract dates which will create loss of membership over time.

Absolutely our main targets right now should be the OG's, they are stealing our orders and processing through WS's, thus feeding the beast.
But many states are right now creating laws to help us with that issue. Wouldn't you love to open your paperback yellow pages and see only real florist listed? I would.

To kill the Beast you have to cut off it's source of food...the OG's. (some mentioned here by other names).

If this thing became a real solution, allowing florist to send and receive orders at 100% thought some sort of independent system, I'd be happy to pay a membership fee. Of course providing that it did not become a money maker for the creators. Something like an organizational non profit?

Just my two cents, at this point in the conversation. Can't wait to hear more.

Oh boy, here we go again with the red dots in a thread where we are all agreeing that this new organization would be a wonderful thing.

To the person that red dotted my post in which I said I'd be happy to pay a yearly membership fee to support them with the administrative cost of such an endeavor. Please read the post carefully, funnel your passion into a positive route. Thanks.

For anyone intersted in the comment (with no name, huh!) Quote "Are you SERIOUS about this being a money-maker?? You want someone to provide you with service for free? Why??" End Quote. This red dot comment was left July 14th at 12:07pm.

I seriously hope this wonderful thread that we have all been hoping for, does not turn into a mean spirited WS against Florist weird thing. (I am happily WS free).

For the record, whatever talents or time I have, I am offering to the organizers to help this become a reality. The new birth of our industry we have all wanted for so long. We CAN do this.

Blessings to all, even the red dotter.

Carolyn

 

[Doug Munro]

Oh boy, here we go again with the red dots in a thread where we are all agreeing that this new organization would be a wonderful thing.

To the person that red dotted my post in which I said I'd be happy to pay a yearly membership fee to support them with the administrative cost of such an endeavor. Please read the post carefully, funnel your passion into a positive route. Thanks.

For anyone intersted in the comment (with no name, huh!) Quote "Are you SERIOUS about this being a money-maker?? You want someone to provide you with service for free? Why??" End Quote. This red dot comment was left July 14th at 12:07pm.

I seriously hope this wonderful thread that we have all been hoping for, does not turn into a mean spirited WS against Florist weird thing. (I am happily WS free).

For the record, whatever talents or time I have, I am offering to the organizers to help this become a reality. The new birth of our industry we have all wanted for so long. We CAN do this.

Blessings to all, even the red dotter.

Carolyn

Certainly not my "red dot", might be an indication of peoples response to your posting.

The reality is that for any business person to seriously suggest that a non profit organization be formed to supply service to their own for profit business is little odd and the author of such a post should expect to see some flack. BTW the whole Non-profit wire service has been tried and in fact worked for years prior to the advent of technology, it simply could not survive in today's world in it's original format. Curious who I am speaking about?

The company I refer to was formed as a co-op by florists about 100 years ago, FTD. So, the evil empire that is so reviled on this board was actually a creation of the retail florist....go figure.

 

[kt4ye]

Bill,

So none of those orders FTD acquired came from Proflowers or 1-800 (who by the way does over 13 million orders a year)? Is the assumption here that if FTD.com did not exist all 4 million or so orders they process each year would have simply gone directly to the florist?

As for defending what FTD did, let them do that themselves. I will say however that FTD simply did what many others were doing, using technology to improve their business.

ProFlowers sells an entirely different product (boxed flowers) that is delivered in an entirely different way. I submit that their presence (or absence) makes little difference to OUR portion of the floral market.

With regard to our core business, as was the case with the Housing Meltdown, there is plenty of blame to go around.

It isn't just FTD.com. It's ALSO 1-800 and Teleflora. All of these abandoned the business model of being a useful tool of the professional florist and became direct sellers that then funneled their heavily discounted orders through to the real florist. IF they had not abandoned the model, then YES those orders would have gone to the local florists...

Except for the OGs. But THOSE would not exist IF TFTD800 had not ignored their very own rules regarding deceptive advertising.

And IF all that had not happened the way it did, then ALL of the TFTD800OG orders would have gone to the local florists.

The Anglo-Kenyan singer, Roger Whitacker, had a song, "IF'S AN ILLUSION." He was right.

We don't own any time machines, so we can't go back and change anything. We can only look back, see what happened, figure out why it happened and take that information into account when we plan for the future.

Edmund Burke, 18th century British statesman apparently coined the phrase, "Those who don't know history are destined to repeat it."

So... our task, should we decide to accept it, is to deal with what we have now, while using the wisdom of what got us into this mess in the first place to try to set a new course that avoids the pitfalls of the past.

IOW let's stop complaining and figure out what we CAN DO.

Bill

 

[Doug Munro]

So... our task, should we decide to accept it, is to deal with what we have now, while using the wisdom of what got us into this mess in the first place to try to set a new course that avoids the pitfalls of the past.

IOW let's stop complaining and figure out what we CAN DO.

Bill

I hear ya and am in agreement on that part

 

[sandytf]

Lori,
The fact is that I am fully in support of change, and frankly positive change will never occur unless all levels of this industry pull together. What I am not comfortable with is a closed door meeting where a "witch hunt" is conducted and those being accused are not welcome.

In your statement above I have bolded a reference that I find extremely interesting. You allude to the strength that an AA meeting provides to individuals, one of the things that is required from an individual when attending an AA meeting is honesty. Having attended a number of AA birthdays for relatives and friends over the years, AA members will introduce themselves at meetings as "Hi I am Joe and I am an alcoholic". Maybe what "Florists For Change" needs is an honest introduction for it's attendee's, here is what I would suggest

"Hi I am Joe and I am solely responsible for the success or failure of my flower business"

Now before you laugh, think about it, or better yet read a months worth of posts on this board and you will probably find that for every one individual that takes actual personal responsibility for how poorly their flower shop is doing there will be 99 who blame their failure on the WS's or OG's . Unfortunately, making attendee's admit to this in an introduction would probably mean there would be an awful lot of empty seats....lol.

Lets face it for someone to succeed they must start by realizing that the power for their business to succeed or fail is theirs alone.

Doug,
I think you're transferring some of your frustration that you feel towards the often "overstated" opinions of some vocal anti WS/OG people on this forum to the new group that is forming. You're going to hear some of the same old, same old on that FB page, but I truly believe this group is not of that attitude. From what I can figure out they are a group of florists who are doing exactly what you propose: "realizing the power for their business to succeed or fail is theirs alone". I'm hoping they are fully aware that the meeting would get out of hand pretty quickly if they let the "whiners" take over. I'm thinking that won't happen.

 

[kt4ye]

Now that Doug and I have had a KUMBAYAH moment, let me make one small observation and ask a question.

Before I got smart and became my own boss (except for my wife, Sardha's who is REALLY the boss) I spent a fair amount of time in corporate business. After I decided that engineers had to work too hard and didn't get free lunches, I switched to sales and marketing. I supervised both direct and commission salesmen.

NEVER in 20+ years did I encounter a single instance wherein a sales rep got a commission ON SHIPPING CHARGES!

So... Why don't we all start agitating for a change in WS commission structure such that there is NO COMMISSION on Delivery Charges to either the Sending Florist OR the WS!?

All the best,


Bill

 

[Doug Munro]

Doug,
I think you're transferring some of your frustration that you feel towards the often "overstated" opinions of some vocal anti WS/OG people on this forum to the new group that is forming. You're going to hear some of the same old, same old on that FB page, but I truly believe this group is not of that attitude. From what I can figure out they are a group of florists who are doing exactly what you propose: "realizing the power for their business to succeed or fail is theirs alone". I'm hoping they are fully aware that the meeting would get out of hand pretty quickly if they let the "whiners" take over. I'm thinking that won't happen.

Let's all keep our fingers crossed. The fact is I really hope that this group can come forward with some positive ideas to help the individual retail florist improve his or her business.

 

[Doug Munro]

Now that Doug and I have had a KUMBAYAH moment, let me make one small observation and ask a question.

Before I got smart and became my own boss (except for my wife, Sardha's who is REALLY the boss) I spent a fair amount of time in corporate business. After I decided that engineers had to work too hard and didn't get free lunches, I switched to sales and marketing. I supervised both direct and commission salesmen.

NEVER in 20+ years did I encounter a single instance wherein a sales rep got a commission ON SHIPPING CHARGES!

So... Why don't we all start agitating for a change in WS commission structure such that there is NO COMMISSION on Delivery Charges to either the Sending Florist OR the WS!?

All the best,


Bill

Bill,

You are certainly right about that one, the reality is shipping charges in our industry are a hard cost and not generally (at least not with the current delivery costs) a profit center. It's certainly something to consider.

The biggest problem I see in this whole wire service mess is the fact that it is really about a transfer of revenue from one group who is currently receiving it to another group who is not. Now there lies the problem , the companies (WS's, large volume order senders, etc) who are receiving it have developed their business model based on it and will be very reluctant to change it.

As well while it is very easy for florists to rally to a call for change and demand a larger piece of the pie it is going to require a lot of serious thought and a lot less emotion. It is important to remember that many of the wire service practices that today's florist perceives as problems were actually put in place at the request of or to service the retail florist.

I have been around long enough to recall when the standard practice by florists was to jump ship on a wire service because the one down the road was offering an extra $0.25 on rebate, or worse yet maintain multiple wire services so that you received orders on one ( higher incoming) and sent orders out by another (higher rebate), this practice in fact led to reciprocity fee's.

I am no pointing out the above to lay blame, just to emphasize the fact that at the time no one seen any real harm in doing the above, from the florists point of view it was "just good business". So all I suggest that is that every action has a reaction (thank you Albert Einstein) and that much thought must be given before rushing off to change the industry. Unfortunately, my fear is that there tends to be such a level of animosity towards the wire services and OG's that all caution will be thrown to the wind.

 

[Flowermomma]

Bill,

You are certainly right about that one, the reality is shipping charges in our industry are a hard cost and not generally (at least not with the current delivery costs) a profit center. It's certainly something to consider.

The biggest problem I see in this whole wire service mess is the fact that it is really about a transfer of revenue from one group who is currently receiving it to another group who is not. Now there lies the problem , the companies (WS's, large volume order senders, etc) who are receiving it have developed their business model based on it and will be very reluctant to change it.

As well while it is very easy for florists to rally to a call for change and demand a larger piece of the pie it is going to require a lot of serious thought and a lot less emotion. It is important to remember that many of the wire service practices that today's florist perceives as problems were actually put in place at the request of or to service the retail florist.

I have been around long enough to recall when the standard practice by florists was to jump ship on a wire service because the one down the road was offering an extra $0.25 on rebate, or worse yet maintain multiple wire services so that you received orders on one ( higher incoming) and sent orders out by another (higher rebate), this practice in fact led to reciprocity fee's.

I am no pointing out the above to lay blame, just to emphasize the fact that at the time no one seen any real harm in doing the above, from the florists point of view it was "just good business". So all I suggest that is that every action has a reaction (thank you Albert Einstein) and that much thought must be given before rushing off to change the industry. Unfortunately, my fear is that there tends to be such a level of animosity towards the wire services and OG's that all caution will be thrown to the wind.

I liked the reasoning of one of the wire service reps who said the other shop in town is US you won't want them to get all the orders would you? That I bet works on many second shops/new owners but I was able to fend that one off.

 

[ezbloomers]

Yes the issues are greater then wire service. A big issue is that we basicly sell flowers today for the same price that we did 15 to 20 years ago there has been no inflation in the cost thus no natural inflation in the prices which most business in other industry's enjoy. Which means we have not received any artifical growth in our gross profit. And then we the devalueing of the product as these order gathers / drop shippers have gone to market based on price. Which leads us into the image problem of florist being EXPENSIVE! There are a lot of reasons for us florist to get together!

Just my two cents worth - companies meeting to set pricing is illegal, it's called collusion / price fixing.

 

[keith]

Personally I am all for the delivery being separate from the order, I find it offensive when I get an incoming wire that has no obvious delivery attached. we add out standard delivery of $11.95 to every outgoing order. Why would any honest shop not do the same?
Our wire outs get our price plus delivery
we keep the $6.95 wire charge ....yes I know I am low but given the outrageous service charges today I can't bring myself to join a corrupt system and charge $14.99

I think you will find B & M's feel this way, OG's have all gone to the higher fees on the parts they keep.

While I am on a rant, the practice of charging one fee that includes the delivery is simple bogus theft, especially if they promise FREE delivery. Consumers assume that a separate fee will be for the delivery even if the OG keeps it. We will not take any orders from shops who do this, it is very bad for the industry and lowers each customers perception of value that they receive.

Keith

 

[keith]

Price fixing?

Really?

I once thought you were for the independent florist. You think that 40-60 florists coming together to try to solve the nightmare of the current system is price fixing?

Good luck on that! You are not only uninformed but seriously out of touch with the state of the floral industry.

If you want to observe price fixing watch any fee charged by one WS get quickly copied by all, how is that not price fixing? In a free and competitive market it would be an advantage. Clearly we do not have a free market in wire services.

Keith
Floral agitator

 

[ezbloomers]

Really?

I once thought you were for the independent florist. You think that 40-60 florists coming together to try to solve the nightmare of the current system is price fixing?

Good luck on that! You are not only uninformed but seriously out of touch with the state of the floral industry.

If you want to observe price fixing watch any fee charged by one WS get quickly copied by all, how is that not price fixing? In a free and competitive market it would be an advantage. Clearly we do not have a free market in wire services.

Keith,
You clearly misunderstood my comment. It was not intended as a negative dig but rather as a caution to not appear to be suggesting that it would be a discussion topic.
My commitment to the industry should be obvious - we invested heavily to created a means for florist to make more money immediately while I wait for a modest return in the distant future, how many people can say that. Our service asks for nothing more than a modest fee to cover the cost of technology. We do this because we believe the individual florists, without whom there would be no industry, deserve to make a decent living.

 

[lori042499]

Personally I am all for the delivery being separate from the order, I find it offensive when I get an incoming wire that has no obvious delivery attached. we add out standard delivery of $11.95 to every outgoing order. Why would any honest shop not do the same?
Our wire outs get our price plus delivery
we keep the $6.95 wire charge ....yes I know I am low but given the outrageous service charges today I can't bring myself to join a corrupt system and charge $14.99

I think you will find B & M's feel this way, OG's have all gone to the higher fees on the parts they keep.

While I am on a rant, the practice of charging one fee that includes the delivery is simple bogus theft, especially if they promise FREE delivery. Consumers assume that a separate fee will be for the delivery even if the OG keeps it. We will not take any orders from shops who do this, it is very bad for the industry and lowers each customers perception of value that they receive.

Keith

I am so glad that I am not the only one this irks...I don't know one florist that delivers for free, yet florists in my own state that I personally know that charge delivery would send me orders for 40.00 or 45.00 no delivery added in...I would call them and say what the heck, why do you guys still not send delivery, answer our so and so website doesn't add in delivery to our out of town orders....they didn't even know they could have the website charge the customers the proper charges....that really is a problem if the website is a complete copy of the ws msrp's becaue no delivery means it is really impossible to get er done...I have been saying for a long time that sometine f2f orders suck way worse than og orders because florists should know better....

 

[RWK]

Let me recount a bit of history. Way back in the mid to early sixties or even into the seventies, FTD was brought up in court for price-fixing. This was a result of their advertisements saying that this such an arrangement was such a price. For example, The old Pick-Me-Up Rainbow Mug in the Tote Bag would have read in the brochure something like.....available nationwide at only 24.99. THIS is what if called price fixing and is wrong. FTD was ordered by the courts that they had to publish either a general price range or re-word the advertisements. In compliance, the ad for the Pick-Me-Up would read.....GENERALLY AVAILABLE FOR LESS THAN 29.99. That way is legal as you are giving a general price reference that may or may not be more or less.

Price0fixing can be avoilded simply by phrasing it correctly.......as long as there is not a definitive price statement, then it is not fixing and is legal.

 

[Mikey the Flower Guy]

It's not the Kremp's & Weasley's that would feel the greatest impact, nor do they HAVE the greatest impact.

The biggest og's are the wire services themselves.

Can FTD/TF/1-800 afford to change the commission structure from 80/20 to 90/10, losing 10% of every order?

Where would they make up this lost revenue...would it be in higher service fees/charges/taxes?

What are the consequences to the ws if they don't change?

the "consequences" ARE, no change, no wire services