Florists For Change

[Mikey the Flower Guy]

Really?

I once thought you were for the independent florist. You think that 40-60 florists coming together to try to solve the nightmare of the current system is price fixing?

Good luck on that! You are not only uninformed but seriously out of touch with the state of the floral industry.

If you want to observe price fixing watch any fee charged by one WS get quickly copied by all, how is that not price fixing? In a free and competitive market it would be an advantage. Clearly we do not have a free market in wire services.

Keith
Floral agitator

ALL of it needs "fixing" and IF the price MUST be "fixed" to alleviate all the theft of the consumers' pocketbook, THEN there is hope for us still!!
I'm amazed........don't "see" any bickering, just "fearful" conscious searching and "reality checks" instead of living on your future "rebate checks".....
IF MAS is the "answer" then discuss making THAT "platform" the one to beat, IF it's NOT, then let's NOT re-invent the wheel....our "problems" ARE, that we have TOO MANY options......
We have family arriving from all over North America over the next few days, otherwise, our butts would be at the BJ tables at Lost Wages......

 

[prestonway]

the "consequences" ARE, no change, no wire services

I'm gonna hold you to that one Mikey.

That's a good one!!! LOL

 

[RWK]

I've made a few comments on this topic, but I really want to address this one head on. I may be in the minority and get a ton of red dots for this, but as they say " Oh Well ". There is only ONE place and one place only where truly effective change will take place. Sad to say it isn't at a roundtable discussion in a convention hall in Vegas. No my friends, the ONLY place that real, permanent change can start is right in our own flower shops. We have to set the direction, the tone, the rules, the associations, the filling, the sending, all that has to be determined by Us and Us alone as individual florists in our individual shops.

As I have pointed out, I am not a business owner, but I firmly believe that I am the change that needs to made at my shop. I need to constantly change for the better as a better designer and employee, as a better provider of customer service, as a better salesperson, as a better employee all the way round.

Yes, the shop I am at is a Teleflora member shop. I have an obligation to provide those orders with the absolute best I can give. It is my moral obligation to fill those orders as profitably, as fully, and as full valued as I can do on any given day. It is my reponsibility to notify the sending florist if something can or cannot be done as requested or a substitution has to be made. Conversely, It is MY reponsibilty to immediately notify my customer if another florist tells me they cannot fill the order as requested and to get my customer's input.

The change that will come cannot start nationally, or regionally, it has to start only one place.....IN THE FLOWER SHOP.

And that is my two cents.

 

[bootcampguy]

I've made a few comments on this topic, but I really want to address this one head on. I may be in the minority and get a ton of red dots for this, but as they say " Oh Well ". There is only ONE place and one place only where truly effective change will take place. Sad to say it isn't at a roundtable discussion in a convention hall in Vegas. No my friends, the ONLY place that real, permanent change can start is right in our own flower shops. We have to set the direction, the tone, the rules, the associations, the filling, the sending, all that has to be determined by Us and Us alone as individual florists in our individual shops................................

Ricky, good point, i tried to super bold the above line.............But what Florist for Change might be able to accomplish is put all the people on the same page as to certain issues. Not alienate anyone or one company, just put butts in seats to talk. We need some direction and change or this whole industry or issue will get worse.

 

[BOSS]

Before replying I took the time to go though this entire thread and read every post> I must say that it is great to see a group of florists working together as a team or at least potentially, as of yet no one has been asked to actually spend or contribute money ( other than enjoying a trip to Vegas).

However I do have a number of comments

First, I find it interesting that many of the individuals supporting this concept have many a time proudly stated they are wire service free. I mention this as with the focus of this being on the wire services these folks really don't have much stake in the matter, they have made their choice.

Secondly I found it comical that within the first three pages of this thread it became a platform for two competing technologies to sell the merits of their system over everyone else's.

Third, once again as an industry we go above and beyond the call of duty to shoot ourselves in the foot. Really.... a public Facebook page to discuss the mechanics, percentages, and perceived injustices of the floral industry. What is the next step? A billboard in Times Square.

Last, as customers of the wire services you want to determine what margins they are allowed to charge and ultimately if they are entitled to make a profit. In fact by default (by adjusting the sending commissions) you also wish to dictate what margins you competitors can make as well.
Will this same option to dictate margins and profitability be provided by you to your own customers in regards to how you operate your flower shop? Probably not, but hey if they don't like the way you do business they can go elsewhere....... right? Wait a minute isn't that same option open to the florist or has someone made Wire Service membership mandatory.

In summary, as much as I would enjoy a trip to Vegas, I will instead stay at home and focus my energies on improving business for our own stores.

If you could forward me the minutes of the meeting and let me know when the next one will be that would be great.

Thanks

Doug, I simply put it out there...

I'm not involved with the agenda, but I admit stopping order gathering by nonflorists is a personal goal.

Yea, I too thought the technology debate inappropriate here, but what ya gonna do?

I'm at my lake house, I must say 4 days without Internet access has been great!!

Have a good weekend~

 

[Doug Munro]

I've made a few comments on this topic, but I really want to address this one head on. I may be in the minority and get a ton of red dots for this, but as they say " Oh Well ". There is only ONE place and one place only where truly effective change will take place. Sad to say it isn't at a roundtable discussion in a convention hall in Vegas. No my friends, the ONLY place that real, permanent change can start is right in our own flower shops. We have to set the direction, the tone, the rules, the associations, the filling, the sending, all that has to be determined by Us and Us alone as individual florists in our individual shops.

The change that will come cannot start nationally, or regionally, it has to start only one place.....IN THE FLOWER SHOP.

This has certainly been an interesting thread, lots of opinion, lots of passion, and lots of rhetoric, however a few gems have surfaced.

In business when you succeed wildly you get to take all the credit, by the same token if you fail you have no one else to blame. I have suggested many times that our industry is evolving and going through many of the changes other retail sectors have. Like any evolution, natural selection will play a role and only the strongest and best suited for survival will remain. This means that some existing flower shops will fall by the wayside as they are unable to adapt to the changing environment around them, this is unfortunate but a reality.

Our goal as a company is to provide the training and tools to our stores that will ensure that remain viable businesses and are the ones left standing at the end. Does this require traveling to Las Vegas?. Not a chance!

I note that while many suggest (and hope) the "Florist For Change" meeting is about fresh ideas and not a "witch-hunt" to target WS's or OG's that the "public" website paints a different picture. Have a look

http://www.floristsforchange.com/agenda-item-3.php
http://www.floristsforchange.com/agenda-item-1.php

It's just so great that we point out our industries underbelly and woes to the consumer, maybe a page should be added about the harmful affects of pesticides or maybe even better about how many domestic flower growers have shut down as we all prefer to purchase cheaper imports (even though most shops don't pass on any savings to the consumer). Sound ridiculous? Of course it is, but no more so than what is already up on the website.

Myself I will stay home and continue working on ways to improve things for our stores, if you are one of our competitors and are running off to Vegas to light a torch under the perceived demons in this industry don't be surprised if those of us who stayed home have gained a step up on you locally. Have fun at the casino

 

[Mikey the Flower Guy]

Doug, I simply put it out there...

I'm not involved with the agenda, but I admit stopping order gathering by nonflorists is a personal goal.

Yea, I too thought the technology debate inappropriate here, but what ya gonna do?

I'm at my lake house, I must say 4 days without Internet access has been great!!

Have a good weekend~

now THAT was "refreshing"........
Just got back from our lake house...was there almost a week, and with NO distractions,(by myself) I got my double garage raised, knocked out the single layer of foundation blocks, installed 3 layers of concrete blocks, lowered the garage, installed a 3 bay parking pad, built a generator/compressor shed, re-installed my lake water system, laid 6x6 steel mesh, and laid my infloor heating pex pipe tied to the mesh.
Just in time, my concrete guys are coming on Monday, and I'm back in the shop!
I HAVE to tell you, for all the "hype" of staying connected, and social media, BOY, does it WASTE a TON of valuable time!!

 

[kt4ye]

If members of this chat group put together a list of concerns, e.g. sales tax (internet orders), unilateral discounts offered by w/s and pushed over to florists on their promotions (without concern of costs (running all over with inadequate info) and gas pricing...w/s needs to consider these for the florists as they don't understand what it takes to deliver something and forced to get a signature), rebates given....for sending orders (good for sending florists only) but we fillers have to suffer and THIS IS ANOTHER WAYto keep o/gs alive. Pricing concerns on products based on summer pricing, but dictated for holiday designs and using the same flowers on every design (supply and demand issue, this surely tells you that there was no marketing involved but designers ). No concern is given to the future pricing, freights and any new charges enforced by govt eg this ANDEAN imports charge (not sure what has happened on this). Recipes, use of containers from one source only. Customer service support at the w/s (They forget that it is us florists who keep them employed). Sometimes they talk to us florists like we are so stupid and we do not know anything. Delivery confirmation enforcement (I have already seen 6 orders were really not even delivered but we rcvd confirmation and who is enforcing this.) What happens at w/s HQ with the florist who is not following the rules of the game (any enforcement), w/s sending a coupon to the customer surely is not the correct action(customer does not know this w/s, the sender only knows who they paid and the recipient only knows who delivered them an unsatisfactory product. That coupon should be sent by the sending florists to the sender(re-imbursed by w/s). Like someone said earlier; if one w/s comes up with an idea, another copies it and they really do not consider any after affect. (this works in silicon valley in electronics business for manufacturing but in our business w/s is just a paper pusher - like our IRS - with big overhead and not making and delivering like we florists do. Signing up florists without qualification (some don't even have a shop like our o/gs).

We need to come up with all these concerns so they can be addressed. It is nice that we are chatting about it, but any meeting must have a good agenda and proposed outcome. Getting together and discussing is great, but what is supposed to happen from this meeting? We, personally, have tried to work on several issues with our neighbor florists: yellow pages, o/gs etc, but not one even bothered to get back to us. I believe as Ricky said it is all about ourselves, I don't think this meeting will cover everything, but it sure got the w/s jumping up and down.

I know my list is not grand, and just nitty-gritty stuff we encounter in our everyday operation, but we all are small people
trying to make a difference. Our wire service companies have to define their existence...Our main question is:
are they in bed with us only, or they are just using us as well as going direct. If we can get this answered our situation can be much clearer. Can anyone get this answer from them. All big operations have 5 year and 10 year business plans with this highly paid CEOs, can we get a glimpse of what role we "real" florists play in their plan.

 

[mf2352]

Please let me share some thoughts. We have a very successful, family owned and operated business (51 years). We are customer focused. We teach our employees that our function in this industry is to help customers convey emotions, but that we are in business to make money. To do that, each of our jobs is to create and maintain customers by consistently excelling at providing exceptional products and services. Exceptional means that the value received exceeds the value given. Kind of a "Golden Rule" thing, no? To be sure, I am directly responsible forn the success or failure of my business, and I definitely intend to succeed. We are FTD-only, and have a long, long relationship with them. We hold zero ill will for any wire service. They are simply businesses trying to make money for their owners/shareholders. That said, there IS an imbalance in the economics of wire-ins vs wire-outs. If I examine the current system on a stand-alone basis, my conclusion is that it is inconsistent with the philosophy expressed above. In my view, the wire services have a legitimate role in this business. The question is whether changes can be made to the current system that would support the philosophy I teach my employees. Doug, you complained that the Florists for Change website paints a different picture. I had a hand in this, and I can tell you straight-up that that's nonsense! You complain that we are airing our dirty laundry in public, but please understand that our goal was to get the info out fast, as a service to our fellow florists! After all, how many members of the general public are going to search for a fb site called floristsforchange? Maybe there's a better way, but we're honestly trying to do our best to convene an assembly of like-minded, forward-thinking florists who want to discuss ways that we all can make the improvements for our customers, our floral associates, and our businesses over the long term. Are you and I not in full agreement on the value of such a goal? If you don't think this is a worthwhile exercise, fine. If you don't want to participate, fine. Admittedly, it may be that some florists will perceive that we (the small group of florists who are trying to organize this) are a bunch of delusional idiots, but why throw rocks at us for trying to do something positive? Do you see anyone else doing it? BTW, I like half-full better.
-Mike

 

[kt4ye]

WHAT WOULD FIX IT

A laundry list could be prepared, but I think these three steps would permanently FIX all the major issues facing the floral industry as it relates to the Independent Florist, The Wire Services and the OGs:

1. Make Delivery Charges non-commissionable, and advise the receiving florist of the amount allocated for delivery.
2. Wire Services that charge their members sales tax on any item or service must also charge sales tax to their retail customers.
3. Wire services must require every member florist to prominently display its physical location in ALL advertising and on their web sites.

All the best. I'm goin' trout fishing!

Bill

 

[steve]

Mike I have never met you nor have I ever spoken to you but I sure as hell look forward to meeting you at this meeting! We the florist need to take back the industry and and you and your small group I have taken the first step.

 

[keith]

Thanks Steve, I think you will find that the attendees are all genuine good florists who are struggling in a tough economy and with an outdated business model. Our goal is to find "New Cheese"

Keith

 

[Lizi]

There are so many issue that need addressing within the floral industry. Yes, wire service is one of them. Customer satisfaction and perceived value of wire orders is at an all time low. So many customers complain about being ripped off, especially during the holidays. Some of those customers are lost to us forever, they have been burned badly and it left a bad taste for ALL FLORISTS in their

Then there is the issue with poorly trained, or no training at all for shop owners and designers. Bad product, with a who cares attitude. In years past, you had to prove yourself to FTD, TF and. 1800, now anyone can be a member, just as long as you pay membership.

Shops claiming to be local who are order gathers, the phone companies don't care if they are local or not, just give us your money.

I wish I knew the answers to all questions, but I don't. I'll just keep giving great product at a great price, great customer service and trying to learn anything and everything that will help me advance my shop, teaching the consumer along the way.

Does the US have a Flower Council or any such organization? Don't say SAF, they are only interested in you if you are a member.

Wish everyone luck, hope lots is accomplished at this meeting because our industry needs lots of help to pull us all together as ONE industry.

 

[concord]

Just wondering....why do we need to solve every single "problem" with the whole industry? I mean, do nice restaurants sit around worrying about the fact that some people who know nothing about food service and have no business training, but love to cook open up a restaurant and have lousy service and bad food? Nope. They concentrate on running their own successful business. Do consumers eat at a bad restaurant and say they will never eat out again? Nope. They say they will never eat there again, but they don't hold it against the entire industry. Do we really think when a person gets bad service or poor quality flowers they hold it against the entire flower industry? I would love to see some changes made and I am all for florists coming together to discuss solutions, but I think it lies in education. Educating florists new and old on care and handling, design, marketing, etc. at costs that we can afford. Also educating consumers that we are all different and they should not expect us to all have the exact same products and styles. (That's my two cents and note that I didn't say anything about OG or WS.)Someone mentioned a flower counsel earlier and that might be a way to start.

 

[steve]

I have read on here via this thread and many others in the pass of the quality issues that are perceived to be a big part of the industry's problem. Just for the record I am not a designer I own a florist business with a business partner who is a designer and we have 4 other designers working for us. When I ask my partner and the other shop personal how big an issue have complaints been on our wire outs the response I receive is very very rare. Now I am not as big a sender as some of the really large shops but we are in the Top 300 with FTD. Do poorly run shops with marginal design capabilities exist absolutly but I wonder if the picture is as ugly as some would have us believe?

 

[sandytf]

Just wondering....why do we need to solve every single "problem" with the whole industry? I mean, do nice restaurants sit around worrying about the fact that some people who know nothing about food service and have no business training, but love to cook open up a restaurant and have lousy service and bad food? Nope. They concentrate on running their own successful business. Do consumers eat at a bad restaurant and say they will never eat out again? Nope. They say they will never eat there again, but they don't hold it against the entire industry. Do we really think when a person gets bad service or poor quality flowers they hold it against the entire flower industry? I would love to see some changes made and I am all for florists coming together to discuss solutions, but I think it lies in education. Educating florists new and old on care and handling, design, marketing, etc. at costs that we can afford. Also educating consumers that we are all different and they should not expect us to all have the exact same products and styles. (That's my two cents and note that I didn't say anything about OG or WS.)Someone mentioned a flower counsel earlier and that might be a way to start.

Helen,
I mostly agree with you. However, I would add that I think the issue of consumers sending flowers and not getting what they thought they paid for is big enough that it transfers to the entire industry. If you have a bad meal at a restaurant one in every 10 times you go out, you can chalk it up to one bad restaurant, but if you have a bad experience 5 times out of 10 sending flowers...you begin to think it's more industry wide. Plus, restaurant national brands or franchises tend to be very consistent. In the floral world, the big brands are anything but consistent because the item they are showing costs more or less depending on where the recipient lives....which is not reflected when it's sold to the consumer. I do think there are some differences.

That said, it all begins at home.

 

[mf2352]

We all look forward to meeting with you too, Steve. Glad you'll be there!
Mike

 

[FANCIES]

Hum....Iv'e been thinking. I have read every comment, although I have to say, I can't remember each and every word but I've tried to get the general ideas and feelings behind all of this. As I see it, and as many, if not most, will probably disagree with me, the focus has been on how to survive this bad economic downturn and still survive in the end. Alittle back-ground on myself: I never considered myself as a traditional florist. I had never worked in another flower shop and knew nothing about how they were set up or how they operated, I never knew about wire services. (Is that what they really are, a service?) I got into this business, kinda by accident, and in my personal drive to be "someone", ha! ha! lol!!!what a joke that one was! Anyway, long story, I'll skip most of it, my daughter and I opened a small store selling silk and dried flowers, supplies, ribbons, birch, euc, etc that we used in our small craft endeavors. One day someone came in asking for fresh flowers and the rest is history, we are a full service flower shop. I called a local craft person that I knew that bought roses and dried them for potpourri and asked where to buy some roses to sell. I built my business on long stem Vega roses that I sold wrapped for $12.99 a dozen. I absolutely did not know what I was doing. The rest of the flower shops in town, at that time, were selling a dozen roses for $60-$70 a dozen wrapped or arranged and I didn't even know that. I was so naive. I just wanted to give people the nicest product for the least amount of money. I still do. As time went on some of the wire services started contacting me with promises to bring me more business and make more money,ha ha, another joke! Not true. It has taken me along time to figure out they are a money hungry business, using small business to make them a bunch of money. Now I know belonging to the wire services is a voluntary thing to do, but I was deceived, in my opinion and how I see it. So now, fast forward, 20 years, (where has my life gone to ? ) and I find myself trying to get out of the wire services and get my business back to where it was, still trying to give the nicest product for the least amount of money, and yes Rick, still make a profit BECAUSE that is not a dirty word! So what is the point of all of this? I built my business on a good product, (those Vega roses were huge and lasted 2 weeks for sure) a fair price, and I feel, good customer service. I've got to remember that and get back to the basics. Word of mouth, at that time, was my advertising, and my business grew. Now what? It's like Ricky said, it all starts (and I'll say) and ends with the flower shop itself. I have grown to greatly dislike the wire services, voluntary or not. I do not believe they are playing fair and the og's are ABSOLUTELY the worst. Deceptive advertising and the money that goes along with it makes it nearly impossible for small to medium shops to even try to compete with these blood suckers, again as I see it, for our own local business. That is what is so sad. But, as many of you would say, they are just in business and they are great at marketing etc. I am all about fairness but in this day and age that has gone by the way side. Forget that. That is the way of the world now and it is full of greed. Again I'll say, yes I know they are all just a business trying to survive. But at what expense? Ours. So what do we do? As I see it, the best we can at taking care of our own customers in our home towns. In the end, I hope these deceptive og's don't destroy too many business that have struggeled for so long to try and earn a living. They are everywhere, under every nick and cranny and under every rock! Disgusting. So, as I see it, unless there is some legislation put into place to stop the deception of pretending to be a local flower shop in a town and capturing that local order there is no stopping them. Since I don't have the funds, or the time, to compete against them, I just have to forge ahead trying to promote myself to my local home town customers and try to reach as many as out of town people that are searching for a REAL LOCAL FLORIST that I can. I am not blaming the wire services for where I am right now in my business. My name is Carol, and I am solely responsible for the sucess or failure of my business But I don't see TF, save the florist=ha!, FTD or 1800 flowers doing much for me. They never really did. I will be free from TF in the fall, I am still with 1800 for numerous reasons, my choice. Eventually I will be done with them all. I do not see how any business, unless you are a big sender, will be saved by filling there orders. I, at one time, thought that as long as I am not losing money, I can still keep going with them, keeping my employees working and moving thru product, but know, with all of the greed that has gone into it the last couple of years with all the extra fees it is making it near to impossible to keep going with them. The stress alone in dealing with them is enought to kill anyone off!!! I hope the meeting in Las Vegas will be of a great help to all of you. I even hope in the end it will help me in my business. I don't think I can go as I already have so many things planned, but I eagerly look forward to any good thoughts and ideas that come out of this meeting. I want us all to succeed. PS It is 3:55 am and I am on pain pills, I had 17 teeth pulled last Tuesday and I am trying to deal with the pain and new dentures, that don't fit well and hurt like heck! So I am taking a chance in posting this

 

[keith]

Fancies, I can sympathize like few others. I once was a practitioner who did those "procedures" for patients. Stay strong, it will get much better in the next 48 hours. Cold packs now and then as the swelling eases some hot packs will help.

We will let everyone know exactly what we accomplish, what our goals are, and where we go from here after the meeting.

Enjoy the Percocet haze,

Keith Hill, DMD
Beaverton Florists

 

[RWK]

Also Fancies, A bit of a home remedy that helps a lot......especially if there is residual bleeding or drainage......is to take a tea bag.....any brand....and hold it on the areas where they pulled the teeth. There are some natural chemicals in the tea leaves that act as a kind of pain reliever and as a coagulant to help stop bleeding and drainage.