Doug Munro
Well-Known Member
Now that is more like it , a positive direction, I might even consider attending.
Can anyone confirm if Frank, Dean, and Sammy are still headlining on the strip?
Florists For Change
- Thread starter BOSS
- Start date
Now that is more like it , a positive direction, I might even consider attending.
Can anyone confirm if Frank, Dean, and Sammy are still headlining on the strip?
prestonway
Well-Known Member
This must be what you're alluding to, Doug (oh the irony that this is sung by Frank!)
lyrics to Love And Marriage / Frank Sinatra
Love and marriage, love and marriage
They go together like a horse and carriage
You can't have one without the other
It's an illusion
Try, try, try, and you will only come
To this conclusion
It won't be a meeting about bashing wire services...only about the value specifically from wire orders.
...you can't have one without the other...
anytimeflowers
Linda
Hiya Doug! It's me again.... My name is Linda and I'm responsible for the success or failure of my own shop.
I like that A LOT! You ALSO get a gold star for your forehead. I think this should be a pledge, I really do.
I would like to see the "American Revolution", not the "French Revolution". The first was based on logic, planning, and a true intent to let every person work for their potential un-impeded. The second was just class-warfare and mob hysteria, each consecutive power being eliminated by the next.
It is my sincere hope that all aspects of this complicated industry are given due consideration. It seems as though that is what is happening and I'm sorry you don't feel the same. I don't see this as a witch-hunt, I see it as an honest, nuts and bolts conversation to gather intelligence in order to address ALL issues. That includes your complaints about fillers and the crap you've seen get passed off.
Would you consider taking down images that are photo-shopped, made with fully opened blooms all front facing? If you are, you can bet you would get 110% applause and I would certainly fill orders for you. You always say you are against deceitful order gathering so I assume that you mean that. There is a lot of common ground here, if we can hammer out agreements that would be equitable for everybody. You may have no choice about leaving the wire service of your choice if they don't stay viable to your business model.
Everybody has the choice to be part of the solution that finally puts a stop to the continued fragmenting of this industry by joining on common ground.
Jamie, I'm reading the website completely differently than you are. The agenda clearly states that all suggestions are welcome. When you click on the "more", those are excerpts taken directly from the facebook page or articles submitted by florists and are offered as opinions, not a planned outcome. This is all about getting opinions for a frank discussion on concerns and possible solutions and could lead to anything. It is very loose right now because the direction it takes will be up to the majority of those who participate.
I like that A LOT! You ALSO get a gold star for your forehead. I think this should be a pledge, I really do.
I would like to see the "American Revolution", not the "French Revolution". The first was based on logic, planning, and a true intent to let every person work for their potential un-impeded. The second was just class-warfare and mob hysteria, each consecutive power being eliminated by the next.
It is my sincere hope that all aspects of this complicated industry are given due consideration. It seems as though that is what is happening and I'm sorry you don't feel the same. I don't see this as a witch-hunt, I see it as an honest, nuts and bolts conversation to gather intelligence in order to address ALL issues. That includes your complaints about fillers and the crap you've seen get passed off.
Would you consider taking down images that are photo-shopped, made with fully opened blooms all front facing? If you are, you can bet you would get 110% applause and I would certainly fill orders for you. You always say you are against deceitful order gathering so I assume that you mean that. There is a lot of common ground here, if we can hammer out agreements that would be equitable for everybody. You may have no choice about leaving the wire service of your choice if they don't stay viable to your business model.
Everybody has the choice to be part of the solution that finally puts a stop to the continued fragmenting of this industry by joining on common ground.
Jamie, I'm reading the website completely differently than you are. The agenda clearly states that all suggestions are welcome. When you click on the "more", those are excerpts taken directly from the facebook page or articles submitted by florists and are offered as opinions, not a planned outcome. This is all about getting opinions for a frank discussion on concerns and possible solutions and could lead to anything. It is very loose right now because the direction it takes will be up to the majority of those who participate.
Ah ... but the work isn't in taking the order ...
The work is in getting the person to come in the door in the first place
anytimeflowers
Linda
Doug Munro
Well-Known Member
My comment about a "witch-hunt" was based on many of the comments made earlier on in this thread. I would like nothing better than to see an open honest dialogue about how the independent flower shop can take charge of their own business and improve it.
Now, as to the images we use, we will stick with them for a number of reasons, whether you choose to fill orders for us is entirely your decision. As for applause, quite frankly not required or asked for. Interesting even when you claim that we have common ground you subtlety sneak in a poke. Is your comment meant to imply that if I do not remove the images that I have proven I am a "deceitful order gatherer". C.mom now.... if this is the attitude that you are taking to this meeting it is already off track.
It would certainly be nice to attend an industry meeting where individuals would take personal responsibility for their own business, however I will will sit this one out and wait for the movie. I am afraid that my attendance would probably be more disruptive than helpful as I would like to see dialogue on the damage that substitution, poor quality work,and filling under value is doing to our industry.
Have fun in Vegas
lori042499
Well-Known Member
- May 3, 2006
- 6,457
- 4,226
- 113
- 53
- State / Prov
- MA
and this is where the problem lies....florists still think that orders and people just come through the door or happen upon us with a call...they still do not realize that it is hard work to really get people into our businesses, that is the hardest work we as businesses do, no matter what side of the coin...the problem just lies that the profits on one side of the coin are better than the other...thus the ws model is broken and florists who cannot make money that way need to abandon or struggle and fail....it is really that easy...there is no forced membership or forced filling requirements...it is a decision...now to move on on ideas on how to get poast that and what will help the others to make money and get people to realize what local florists have to offer them over other competitors..
Doug Munro
Well-Known Member
Ah ... but the work isn't in taking the order ...
The work is in getting the person to come in the door in the first place
Ahhh..... the voice of reason.
Some of you may not remember this but there was a time when FTD.com spent far more money every year on advertising than they generated. Why?
Because it costs a lot of money to acquire a new customer! So, if the FTD.com's of the world were not doing it who would?
WELL, I am not a business owner, but as a designer and employee, I feel this way. HI, My name is Ricky and I am responsible for ensuring that I give my best to the business so it can be a prosperous, profitable, and long-lasting shop.
Doug,
Your insight to the problems with our industry are extremely valuable and I for one would welcome your attendance and input. You bring a 'broader' view of the industry to the table and your mantra about taking responsibility is something that can't be stressed enough.
You've highlighted three very important reasons for customer dissatisfaction and those can be both directly and indirectly a fault of the current wire service model. I couldn't agree with you more.
Standing on the sidelines isn't what we as an industry collectively need. We need successful business people who happen to be florists to share their views and hopefully we can all move forward to (increased) profitability.
Doug Fick
Broadway Floral
Portland, OR
secretgarden
Well-Known Member
I'm banging my head here. If the shop taking the order has earned that 20% and the shop that receives the order wants 100% then where is the middle ground.
But again we are fighting with each other instead of coming up with solutions. We are going around and around and nothing will come of it.
I have removed the negative middle of this post.
But again we are fighting with each other instead of coming up with solutions. We are going around and around and nothing will come of it.
I have removed the negative middle of this post.
This could be harder than deciding on whether to raise the debt ceiling. I just hope that EVERYONE will stay calm and respectful. A free flow of ideas is needed and that requires being open minded and people being able to keep their mouths shut for a while and LISTEN. Everyone has their "one thing" that they feel is the biggest issue: the imbalance of $ for order gatherers vs. fillers? photoshopped designs that are impossible to duplicate? lack of quality shops filling the orders? skimming? The list goes on. Any solution will most likely require compromise from all involved. I hope no one is looking for the solution to happen overnight. It's going to be a process.
anytimeflowers
Linda
Wow Doug, where to start. You may as well have slapped me in the face. My intentions were friendly and you just spun it around like Linda Blair spewing pea soup!
I was not sneaking in a subtle poke, you should know me better than that, I'm simply not subtle. I'm not implying anything about you being deceitful because of the images, I'm not implying you are deceitful. I HAVE NO IDEA WHO THE HELL YOU ARE. Seriously, I don't know who you are. I'm assuming, since you say you do not agree with the deceitful ogs that you are not one of them. The deceit I'm talking about is claiming to be a B&M florist in my town, do you do that? I was under the impression that you do not.
That has nothing to do with the images, that was mentioned in an effort to reach common ground. I know you have a huge beef with substitution, poor quality work, and filling under value. This is something that I agree needs to be addressed, it isn't all one-sided. I think common ground can be achieved if both sides of the problem are talked about frankly and openly. CLEARLY with all of the complaints people have lodged there are big problems that need to be hashed out.
I've said before that I greatly respect your opinions and agree with a large part of them, it's only too bad that you seem to think yours are the only ones that are viable.
I will not be in Vegas but thanks for the warm wishes.
Doug Munro
Well-Known Member
Rick,
Please tell me is there any problem related to the retail florist that when brought up on this board for discussion does not have a phrase applied to it such as "can be both directly and indirectly a fault of the current wire service model". I suspect that if the civic garbage collectors went on strike that somehow it could be both directly and indirectly a fault of the current wire service model. In fact maybe the recent flooding at the flower farms in Colombia was a plot by the WS's to undermine the florist.
Ahhh, so much for the holy mantra of taking personal responsibility....however it was nice for the half a dozen posting that it lasted for.
As to poor quality fulfillment by some shops, I have been in this business for over 3 decades and it has always existed. In fact I have read postings on this board where individuals defended the practice of under-filling an order and even suggested that doing so was in no way unethical. Their logic of course is that it "can be both directly and indirectly a fault of the current wire service model". This somehow relives them morally and legally from fulfilling their obligations under their wire service agreement to both their fellow florist and the consumer. Yet when I suggested that we should assign a name to the individuals, something like say DF's (Dishonest Fulfillers) I did not receive much support.
My real question is why would anyone except and agree to fill an order that apparently they know they will lose money on?
Again this is really about taking personal responsibility. You know years ago I attended an FTD conference, at the time Bob Norton was the CEO and was on stage speaking. The gentleman sitting beside me ( a well known florist) made one of the stupidest comments I have ever heard in business, to quote him
"I have no use for Bob Norton, he takes my money and uses it to build his company"
I still laugh every time I remember this....lol
Here was an individual who claimed to have been in business for decades yet hadn't grasped the simple concept (which my son understood when he was 10) that when you pay a vendor for a product or service the money is no longer yours and if you don't like the way the vendor spends it STOP DEALING WITH THEM. At the time I neglected to ask him if he asked his customers how they wanted him to spend "their money" that they paid him for flowers. Go figure.
My point in relating the above story is not to point one mans stupidity, but rather to highlight the animosity that exists toward the wire services.
Doug Munro
Well-Known Member
No slap intended
First off the last thing I feel is that my opinions are the only ones that matter. I am a firm believer that a successful business person is one that looks to others for ways to improve their own business. Otherwise it is far too easy to miss the forest for the trees.
Having said that I too often feel that on this board I am part of a small minority that believes that it is pointless whining about all the perceived forces rallied against the florist. ( WA's, OG's). Having spent a decade or so as a wholesaler I can tell you that the biggest issue I saw with failing florists was simply that many did not have the training or business sense to be successful. Back in those days these ones tended to whine about the injustices committed by the grocery stores ( not real florists, poor quality product, lower cost of goods, etc, etc, etc.). Move forward 20 years the whining continues with the supermarkets being replaced by the wire services as the perceived villains.
I will stick to my guns on this one and say that every business owner eand every is solely responsible for the success or failure of their business.
Could the wire services do more to help your business succeed? Absolutely!
Are they obligated to?
Not a chance!
They too are solely responsible for the success or failure of their business.
So once you come to that realization you are only left with one option.
Get to work building your own business regardless of what the other guy ( in this case the WS's) is doing.
Hope the above makes some sense, posted it on the FC iPhone app.
First off the last thing I feel is that my opinions are the only ones that matter. I am a firm believer that a successful business person is one that looks to others for ways to improve their own business. Otherwise it is far too easy to miss the forest for the trees.
Having said that I too often feel that on this board I am part of a small minority that believes that it is pointless whining about all the perceived forces rallied against the florist. ( WA's, OG's). Having spent a decade or so as a wholesaler I can tell you that the biggest issue I saw with failing florists was simply that many did not have the training or business sense to be successful. Back in those days these ones tended to whine about the injustices committed by the grocery stores ( not real florists, poor quality product, lower cost of goods, etc, etc, etc.). Move forward 20 years the whining continues with the supermarkets being replaced by the wire services as the perceived villains.
I will stick to my guns on this one and say that every business owner eand every is solely responsible for the success or failure of their business.
Could the wire services do more to help your business succeed? Absolutely!
Are they obligated to?
Not a chance!
They too are solely responsible for the success or failure of their business.
So once you come to that realization you are only left with one option.
Get to work building your own business regardless of what the other guy ( in this case the WS's) is doing.
Hope the above makes some sense, posted it on the FC iPhone app.
anytimeflowers
Linda
Doug, you make perfect sense.
There isn't any reason why you should not stick to your guns on the issue of every business being responsible for themselves and whether or not they survive.
I could very easily walk away from this whole thing saying it does not matter to me at all, I'm 100% independent and rely on no one but myself. I honestly don't care what percentages are discussed, it does not affect me at all if I don't choose to fill an order. (I rarely do...)
What so many fail to understand when that statement is made is that every last one of us is 100% independent. Everybody has the same choices that I do, regardless of wire service affiliation. You understand that statement without anybody needing to explain it to you.
You can help, your input is valuable, don't you see that?
Yes, my pet peeve is images that are unrealistic, so I get caught up in defending my position. I won't apologize for that, I've been burned by it just as you have been burned. That's why I thought this would be a good opportunity to reach amicable solutions that would ultimately keep consumers from simply going to another gift vendor.
I won't walk away from it either, it isn't in my best interests to do so in the long run. Compromise weighed heavily in the interests of the consumer is my priority.
I guess that's all I have to say.
There isn't any reason why you should not stick to your guns on the issue of every business being responsible for themselves and whether or not they survive.
I could very easily walk away from this whole thing saying it does not matter to me at all, I'm 100% independent and rely on no one but myself. I honestly don't care what percentages are discussed, it does not affect me at all if I don't choose to fill an order. (I rarely do...)
What so many fail to understand when that statement is made is that every last one of us is 100% independent. Everybody has the same choices that I do, regardless of wire service affiliation. You understand that statement without anybody needing to explain it to you.
You can help, your input is valuable, don't you see that?
Yes, my pet peeve is images that are unrealistic, so I get caught up in defending my position. I won't apologize for that, I've been burned by it just as you have been burned. That's why I thought this would be a good opportunity to reach amicable solutions that would ultimately keep consumers from simply going to another gift vendor.
I won't walk away from it either, it isn't in my best interests to do so in the long run. Compromise weighed heavily in the interests of the consumer is my priority.
I guess that's all I have to say.
Doug I'm not blaming all our industry's problems on wire services. Far from it. We have a multitude of issues that range from a lack of business acumen to being burnt out. The three issues you raised seem to rear their ugly heads when filling incoming orders. That was my intended reference to the wire services.To blame them for all our industry's current issues would be irresponsible and simplistic.
steve
Well-Known Member
Yes the issues are greater then wire service. A big issue is that we basicly sell flowers today for the same price that we did 15 to 20 years ago there has been no inflation in the cost thus no natural inflation in the prices which most business in other industry's enjoy. Which means we have not received any artifical growth in our gross profit. And then we the devalueing of the product as these order gathers / drop shippers have gone to market based on price. Which leads us into the image problem of florist being EXPENSIVE! There are a lot of reasons for us florist to get together!
Doug Munro
Well-Known Member
I believe that the three issues I raised about poor fulfillment are simply symptoms of a bigger problem that affects our industry, one that has very little if anything to do with WS's or OG's. One that has been around as long as I have and much longer, one that has just really reared its head in the last decade or so.
Simply put, the retail flower industry is teeming with individuals that have no business proficiency, they do not have the skills to operate a business. Our industry in many aspects is far more complex than many retail sectors, it requires a high level of training (floral design), sales skills, accounting, a firm grasp of manufacturing (input costs versus selling price), etc, etc, etc. Add to that the fact that in recent years the holy grail for florists has been "get a website" , something that the vast majority have jumped on board with even though they have little if any knowledge about e-commerce ( the "build it and they will come" school of business). No lets have a look at why many individuals become florists........ they like flowers.
I bring this up because I personally feel that this problem has been dogging the industry for a long time, just waiting for an opportunity to pounce. Now over the last few decades there has been a perfect storm that was quietly building with import flowers bringing prices down, supermarkets selling flowers, the funeral industry pushing "in lieu of", and the internet opening a brand new playing field for companies like 1-8oo and Proflowers. Sadly, far too many independent florists were ill prepared for the storm, and are now paying the price.
Warren Buffet has an interesting saying that sums it up very well ( I may have the exact quote wrong, but you'll get the idea)
" You never know who is naked until the tide goes out"
Well folks, the tide is out and blaming the guy next to you for having the common sense to prepare and wear his swimsuit will not change the fact that you are "naked" and scrambling to cover up. So if "Florists For Change" really wants to help this industry this should be the focus, improving your own business skills and learning how to compete in today's world. The bottom line is that not all florists in existence today will survive (nor should they), your goal is to ensure you are one of the ones that does. Unfortunately this will require a fair amount of work, commitment, and will not happen tomorrow, maybe it is easier to stick with the status quo and just blame the other guy, after all it has worked so well up to now. Hasn't it?
On a personal front, our company is working hard to introduce new products, new packaging, new technology, more education, and last but certainly not least generate more business for our stores.
secretgarden
Well-Known Member
It's amazing how Seth Godin's posts seem to go hand in hand with the hot topics we have going here. Loved his post today and I think it sums up what we are talking about here perfectly. Here is a section, see his blog here for full details.