Article Florists' Review wire service article

[RWK]

http://www.floristsreview.com/main/WireService.html

I just saw the article written in response to Royer's commentary........This is the link I copied direct from the source. If it is still not working, then go to the florists review homepage and scroll down till you see in the THIS MONTH ONLY COLUMN " Wire Services Respond " and that will take you to the rebuttals as well.

 

[domineaux]

I think you should post each response separately as postings and let members discuss each response to Royer article.

Methinks, most of our members don't have a grandiose feeling about the Wire Services, nor are willing to laud the so-called efforts those spokes persons speak of to improve the lot of local florists.

 

[BOSS]

Well, well, well.......................................................................................................

Teleflora wins that debate as far as I'm concerned. While all three tried to spin it into generating membership, at least Tom Butler supported some of Ken's conclusions in the florists favor. FTD and 800Flowers both tried to do damage control with their gobildy gook wire-service-speak that anyone with even limited knowledge of how the system works *should* see right through.

FTD's claims of increased orders to members, simply shows how many more orders their stable of gatherers took away from local florists so they could be sent back to those same florists with the potential profit removed. There are not too many new floral purchasers, and I'm pretty sure they did not take them from Teleflora not 800Flowers, thus the only other place to get them is to gather them locally and shift them where they want them to go.

The new FTD is committed to meeting our collective challenges head on and helping support the success of our florists. FTD’s ongoing actions—which are more than just words—demonstrate this continuing commitment. If a florist is not a member of FTD, now is the time to join FTD.

Rob Apatoff
President, FTD

Yo Rob.......... HOGWASH~!

FTD is committed to ensuring that they keep the stock price up, that their stable of order gatherers always have a filler fool to take the crumbs and to MIS-LEAD consumers into thinking that folks like HonestFlorist, BloomsToday and others actually have local locations, FTD itself included, with deceptive YellowPage ads and false internet listings. They help the gatherers compete against local florists by turning a blind eye to the real issues facing local florists.

We all know that there is stagnant growth in order volume, thus the only way for FTD, 800Flowers, and even Teleflora to some extent to increase order volume is to steal the orders from local florists by getting either themselves or folks like Best Florist, Laurens Flowers, BloomsToday, HonestFlorist and many others in between the consumer and the delivering florist, putting any potential profit in their coffers and not the florist doing all the work for pennies on the dollar.

Florists too bear some of the fault here. Floral consumers are floral consumers, we do NOT need wire services to get us orders, and the consumer will find you and me directly if these non-florist operations cease to exist, even though the wires will tell you they will simply stop buying flowers. That's a load of bull. Not true, and a scare tactic to keep members in line and on the wire service list to fill.

FTD's claim in their rebuttal that they

Due to its florist-focused strategy, FTD provides top placement for florist-filled products on FTD.com and features florists and their designs in FTD’s multimillion dollar integrated marketing campaigns. The dramatic increases shown in year-over-year consumer orders sent to the FTD member florist network are a testament to the effectiveness of our marketing efforts and our commitment to our florists.

is also crap. We saw, as recently as this past Mothers Week, that FTD focused on drop-ship constantly until it was too late for Fed/Up to handle the deliveries and then they went to "florist delivered" late in the day on Thursday. Talking to the distribution manager at UPS the week after Mothers Day I was informed that they had "significant volume" of boxed flowers from FTD, and Pro-Flowers (with Telefloras help) that put a burden on their delivery schedules requiring recalling some temp drivers not used since Christmas.

Ya'll keep filling ya hear.... but no complaining if you are... it's your fault they continue to grow, and we continue to decline.

Kudo's to FloristReview for remaining impartial and putting forth "both sides"... I'm on Royers...

BOSS on a soap box.... /rant-editorial

 

[lori042499]

All I can say is that I feel I have made the right choice for me right now to be exclusively teleflora. 800 and FTD are just continuing to lie through their teeth, at least TF stands up to say, we are a biz, we are here to make money, but we choose to try to pffer the services and products we thing florists need...plus they stand behind education..They are trying to educate the masses of florists stuck in the dark ages to help themselves, albeit pushing them towards their very expensive tech options, but at least it gets the florists into this century...I do not agree with everything TF does by anymeans, but I do like a whole lot that they do provide until I feel comfortable enough to go out on my own and get these things...

I can and do choose not to fill for the gatherers and have the ability and power to do so as an independent florists buying TF services, I can fill for who I want and not fill for those I feel are taking advantage of the system, it is my choice. I think it would be great if TF starts only charging the florists who fill for the OG's the extra money for the rebates and have a different tier for thos of us only in it for florist to florist. 800-flowers has that option, maybe TF should consider it...maybe then that will get those that fill the trash to see that it is a losing battle...especially when their membership dues will go up hugely when they stop taking from the florists who are essentially innocent bystanders, who don't want more orders at the expense of losing local consumers..

 

[BOSS]

Good for you Lori, I think you made the right choice....

Even though Teleflora partners with ProFlowers to give them same day delivery ability, TF is still the least of the 3 evils....

 

[anytimeflowers]

This from Nance: Bloomnet

Obviously, the Internet has had the greatest impact. Flower shops are no longer competing only against other shops in their own towns; they’re competing against retailers in other cities and online retailers throughout the world.

Well duh. And who exactly is it who provides the gateway?

guaranteed payment of orders to receiving shops, thus assuming the financial risk

um....okay.....and just how much money do you make on the investment during the 25 or more days between when you recieve the funds to when/if you fund to the florist?

And my favorite!

to stringent quality checks

Hmmmm......during my tenure with your company, Pete, I had many, many visits from your rep........ before I signed on. After that, in two years, one visit. My guess is your stringency equates to reacting to consumer complaints that are probably pretty bogus anyway. Your reaction is probably "cancelling" the order after it's been delivered, at a cost only to the florist who has the un-enviable task of trying to make an arrangement that will live outside of photoshop.

 

[Doug Munro]

Ken's article should not come as news to anyone in the flower industry that keeps themselves informed, nor should it come as a surprise that the wire services chose to defend themselves. What I always find interesting about wire service discussions is the incredible passion they generate amongst the "anti wire service" followers. At times it appears to be almost akin to a religious conviction, like battling Satin himself.

The bottom line in all of this is that being a member of any wire service is a choice made by an individual shop and should always be based on whether or not it is advantageous to that particular business. The same logic applies to a shops choice of belonging to one wire service versus another. Making broad inferences that wire services as a whole are not good for individual shops is like Vegans who preach that none of us should eat meat. Thank you very much but I will decide how I like my steak cooked.

All of us on this board are adults, operating businesses, who (in theory) make business decisions based on all the facts and their potential impact on our own business.

If you don't like the wire services drop them, then get on with building your own business.

 

[Bigted]

The bottom line in all of this is that being a member of any wire service is a choice made by an individual shop and should always be based on whether or not it is advantageous to that particular business.... Making broad inferences that wire services as a whole are not good for individual shops is like Vegans who preach that none of us should eat meat. Thank you very much but I will decide how I like my steak cooked.

All of us on this board are adults, operating businesses, who (in theory) make business decisions based on all the facts and their potential impact on our own business.

If you don't like the wire services drop them, then get on with building your own business.

Doug, while I tend to agree with you, there is another side. When the "middlemen" in a fllower purchase take 40% or even 50% of the consumer's money, there is a serious problem with value perception. Eventually people will quit buying flowers and buy something else. And that hurts all of us.

 

[domineaux]

We all are using the internet. Anyone can make a transaction with another florist in just about any city in the world, by typing into Google - flowers or florist, and the city name. You will be astounded at the results. Most of the world accepts the 4 major credit cards. We took a Mastercard from Shanghai, China recently.

Florist to florist transaction are very easy. Just email or telephone the florist of choice in the local business listings. Ask if they will discount the arrangement 20% as you are a florist, which they can easily corroborate. Give the florist you CC information, they get paid quickly and I'll bet your recipient will get a better arrangement for the money with good service as well.

At least that has been our experience. Who needs a wire service to facilitate business you don't get paid on for weeks, and then you know you are taking all the profits out of the poor delivery florists pocket.
Not counting your monthly WS fees.

Wire services are now totally NOT needed. Try it you'll like it, put that extra money you are paying out to WS into more productive advertising for your local business.

THe WS will say anything, but the monthly statement blows off all their so-called empathy for local florists.

If you positively have to have such a service hook up with flowershopnetwork. $250 per year, $3.99 per transaction.

 

[pdxdoug]

All of us on this board are adults, operating businesses, who (in theory) make business decisions based on all the facts and their potential impact on our own business.

Doug,
A long time ago I got past telling other people (especially my wholesalers) how to run their businesses. But when it comes to retail florists, I would wager that the vast majority of them simply do not understand the true cost to belong to a wire service. That sad reality is that not all florists are good businesspeople and as such tend make poor choices. A healthy, spirited discussion is sometimes a good thing to open some eyes.

Doug

 

[anytimeflowers]

At times it appears to be almost akin to a religious conviction, like battling Satin himself.

Gotta say, near the end of my two years, it certainly felt like I was battling Satan!

The bottom line in all of this is that being a member of any wire service is a choice made by an individual shop and should always be based on whether or not it is advantageous to that particular business

Unfortunately, I think that is where you are wrong, Doug. I had the advantage of making that choice when I opened my shop because I started the business, and I had already heard the woes from owners that I had worked for previously. I had a customer actually tell me they thought it was a law that florists belong to a ws, (I was giving out instructions on how to call a long-distance operator for a listing of florists). Many, many florists still believe they have to belong.

For many, they either inherited the ws when they purchased the business, or they belonged back when it was a straight-forward, above board operation.

I often respond with passion to this particular topic because I passionately feel that the industry is in trouble because of damage these companies have done. I don't respond passionately to things that are simply not my thing, like PETA.

The analogy is good for my purpose, though.

Suppose you were raised to believe that you would die a horrible death if you ate meat? (ie if you went without the ws big brother) All your life, you have been on a diet of fruits, nuts, and berries and tofu, and stayed quite healthy. As years went by though, the portions you were allowed to eat were incrementally dwindling. You have already been taught that you will die if you eat the meat, so even though you are hungry, at least your big brother is giving you something to subsist on.

My point is that many fear they will die if they eat the meat of ws free. Even though they are starving incrementally, they don't see a choice.

 

[CHR]

The tainted orders harm all of us and make people - too many people - decide to choose something besides flowers as a gift.

I recently ran across a blistering 'user review' of an LA florist who did a bad job filling an order for Wesley Berry and the customer ranted - not about WB fooling her that they were 'local in LA - but at the shop who tried to deliver one of their cheapo-discounted-$10-off-orders-with-the-testimonials-from-US-soldiers-and-grandmas-plastered-all-over-their-doorway-pages.

You know WB earned more in rebate $ alone than the local florist did for doing all the real work.

The letters from the WS were puff pieces crafted by the PR departments.

When someone like Ken Royer feels strongly enough to go on the record, you know he's hit a chord that resonates with many, many B&M shops. It's a spark that I hope turns into a flame.

 

[CHR]

The bottom line in all of this is that being a member of any wire service is a choice made by an individual shop and should always be based on whether or not it is advantageous to that particular business.

Doug... if it were so simple....

The national companies have pushed the margins to unsustainable levels by
- showing PhotoShopped images that only exist in a studio,
- advertising unrealistic price points for the featured items
- failing to advise consumers where their dollars really go (i.e. shoppers believe the service charges are the hand-delivery fees)

What they show and the prices they offer affects all of us. We can quit ALL the WSs, but we still have to compete with the bait and switch (via substitution clauses) every day.

Some of them were still selling MD delivery - capturing orders - when those orders were completely undeliverable for the holiday (shops closed, sold out, etc...). They snagged orders knowing the flowers wouldn't arrive in time for the holiday.

They'd rather apologize with a discount offer than lose a sale. And they deprived buyers - and their Moms - of the recognition they so keenly sought through the gift of flowers. What should have been a wonderful gesture, just got tallied up as a 'conversion'.

And don't get me started on the WS funded dOGs who have claimed fake addresses in our town... Again, we're not a member of their 'services', just a victim of their rebate dollars.

 

[BOSS]

And don't get me started on the WS funded dOGs who have claimed fake addresses in our town... Again, we're not a member of their 'services', just a victim of their rebate dollars.

Me either....

The thing that strikes me, when someone comes out and defends the deceptive nature of today's wire services, is that I seriously doubt, that if this was happening in an industry not our own, that we too would be outraged as consumers. As consumers we would not tolerate it (if we knew the truth).

For instance, you order mom some chocolates, the website appears to be local and advertises Sweet House Chocolates, 32oz* assortment, $29.95*

When it arrives she calls to thank you, and you inquire as to her enjoyment of the candy. She states that it's "nice", but I'm not on a diet, so why such a small box? In discussion you find out that she received a box containing 9 small pieces of candy (partially melted because she lives in Texas and it's 115 degrees in the back of the Fed/Up truck). You're outraged!

You go back to the website, and look into the fine print associated with the *.
The 32oz* is including packaging.
The $29.95* is before shipping. (You're total purchase came to $54.95)(including the ""handling"" charge)

When you raise a stink, you find out that the middleman actually made a profit of $35.00 on your purchase, but they give you a coupon for 10% off your next purchase.... you with no other choice accept this and then purchase from them again, to use your 10% discount and they make money again...

It's wrong to deceive the consumer, it's wrong to assist in the deception, and it's wrong to defend the practice.<period

Florists to florist orders are one thing, but orders from any of the wire services themselves, and/or from Wesley Berry, HonestFlorist(oxymoron), BloomsToday, BestFlorist and any other OG is NOT in the best interest of either consumer, retail florist or the industry as a whole long term.

But, some people are OK with the deception, some are OK with helping to perpetuate it.... I'm NOT and will continually put forth the truth as I see it until the dOG's no longer have the ability to get their JUNK orders filled. Convict me as a radical if you wish, tis OK, I wear that badge with honor.

 

[domineaux]

There is an old saying my dad used a great deal, "Put the axe in the stump". Effectively that was a way to say when you put the axe in the stump you were done cutting wood. It was over until the next time.

We need solutions, not more rants and whines. Rants, whines and lack of making decisions is the death of enterprise, business, marriages, friendships,etc. Venting and ranting does help, but at some point you have to make a decision if your complaint is valid. You have to deal with it.

My earlier posting had a solution, and I'm sure it's not the only solution. I suggest maybe others share their way out of WS slavery, to help local florists be profitable without WS.

 

[FANCIES]

FOR SURE! 13 orders will not do it, not even sure what will with all the added fees. It's ridiculous!

 

[domineaux]

Fancies

In my sig is reference to Simple Free Excel Speadsheet to evaluate wire service. You can create alot of "what if" kind of information and test it pretty easy. I recall when I was using the spreadsheet for my own use. It was evident it was nonsense to think we could ever get enough orders to deliver and break even. Our direct monthly WS fees were around $350 per month, and did not include the variable charges or commissions.

How we determined that... We are in a pretty heavily populated area, with alot of florist competition. Most of them subscribe to WS, the number of available delivery orders spread among all the local florists were never enough to offset our WS direct monthly fee costs. The WS could cutail the number of florists they contract, but on balance they wouldn't make as much money. The monthly fees are where the money is for the WS, no part of that picture includes making the local delvering florists make a profit on delivered WS sales.

So, the WS want senders, senders and more senders so they can supply just enough orders to local florists to keep them as subscribers. The WS will perpetuate their "emperor has no clothes" as long as local florists will believe it.

When I started plugging in "what if" on the send side it was amazing how the whole picture changed. The way to make money using WS is as a sender, which means you have to become an OG.

 

[nanvireega]

Just thought I would share this little factoid:
In 2009, our shop did just under $291,000 in incoming wire business (tel, ftd, blm combined)... what was the difference in our bottom line - $3000.00 (just about 1% profit from incoming wires)!
All that work, expense, product, time, effort and -as you can imagine - hours & hours of BS from FTD.com, Teleflora.com & 1800flowers.com operators alone.
I would MUCH RATHER find a way to cut $750.00/month from my other expenses than to have to do $291,000 of this sh-stuff any longer.

 

[domineaux]

I recall running a business, doing $400,000 in sales and my accountant indicated my net was $10,000 for the previous year.

All that work, all those headaches. I told my accountant to factor in errors and omissions I could have just as easily have lost $10,000.

So, you might want to think about that too.

I couldn't sell that business... I liquidated it and moved onto better things.

I'm not saying sell your business, but I would think about the real contributions from all the associations and services you subscribe.

 

[nanvireega]

Just for clarity:
a) that amount was ONLY in relation to wire service business - not total business of the company.
b) the REST of our business brings a 15% profit before owner benefits - with not near the amount of headaches.