Article Florists' Review wire service article

[domineaux]

Yes, you explained it well enough. It was WS related business.

Neverteless, this kind of testimony does encourage others to take a hard look at the value of their WS business.

 

[valleygirl1]

4 years ago I sat down & did the math at tax time. I lost $2,000 on wire services. I quit ASAP.

 

[Eric S]

I'm glad most of you see through the Flatulence FTD and Bloomnet just spewed out in florist review. It just a shame that Florist Review gave the WS a way to communicate to all the florist once again with their brain washing techniques.

It goes to show that we still have some smart cookies here at flowerchat and the message that has been explained over and over again from the original Flowerchat members when I joined is still very clear and has always been correct.

 

[domineaux]

I thought it unusual, the original article that is. Then wham the followup by the WS big whigs. Guess it was a staged thing to play both ends against the middle.

Good guy bad guy kinda stuff does work when you have non-thinkers reading it.

Gave us all a chance to rekindle some of our complaints and facts, and share them here.

 

[anytimeflowers]

I don't think there was any sort of a game being played. We have to remember that these are companies are fighting for their lives, same as us. Florist's Review gave them a chance to rebut and I see nothing wrong with that.

Now if they wanted to give us a chance to rebut the rebuttal.......

 

[CHR]

Now if they wanted to give us a chance to rebut the rebuttal.......

I'm working on it.....

 

[domineaux]

Yeah, they may be fighting for their lives... I don't have any compassion, because they got themselves extended. They have all those great stockholders to make happy.

My concern is for the local B & M florist shops that have been tanking for the past years. The WS in cahoots with the OG have driven a bunch of B & M shops out of business.

Until we get some sanity back into this industry I wouldn't advise anyone to buy a B & M florist business. I'm not saying there still aren't people that will buy a B & M shop. It's just the competition is out of site, and it's coming at us from every direction.

I think we could rebut by simply posting each of the ws execs articles and then letting members comment on the article, like a blog.

 

[duanermb]

My concern is for the local B & M florist shops that have been tanking for the past years. The WS in cahoots with the OG have driven a bunch of B & M shops out of business.

Gimme a break. If a small business goes under and starts pointing fingers, remember there are 3 pointing back.

Until we get some sanity back into this industry I wouldn't advise anyone to buy a B & M florist business. I'm not saying there still aren't people that will buy a B & M shop. It's just the competition is out of site, and it's coming at us from every direction.

I wouldn't hold your breath on this one. I would expect it to get worse, not better. I have learned more than enough on FC and through other sources to run a very successful business without a wire service. Its all about implementation. That being said, it may be very profitable to run a very successful business filling wire orders only in a major market, it just doesn't fit our current business model.

Anyone who is paying attention knows that those rebuttals are superficial and really hold no ground in the real world. You think they would say no to their top advertisers? Remember "Business"...

 

[BOSS]

Until we get some sanity back into this industry I wouldn't advise anyone to buy a B & M florist business. I'm not saying there still aren't people that will buy a B & M shop. It's just the competition is out of site, and it's coming at us from every direction.

Oh I don't know... there are many viable operations still going... it's more like I would not advise someone to buy a shop that has 3 wire services running... or that bases their volume on incoming gathered business...

I've never said one can't make a marginal profit on incoming orders, the real problem comes from the unethical methods used to generate these orders.

If Cathy can get a rebuttal printed, that would be awesome.... spread the word... get more florists here to FlowerChat, tell everyone about FloristDetective.com and do not let our voices be silenced, as we are finally rising above the wire service propaganda machine, and florists are wising up.

 

[duanermb]

I've never said one can't make a marginal profit on incoming orders, the real problem comes from the unethical methods used to generate these orders.

Concur completely.

 

[RWK]

I so want to reply to this....but am headed out the door and don't have time.....but this afternoon.......I'll respond to this.

 

[lori042499]

I am living proff that with the right set of circumstances you gan run a marginal biz with primarily ws orders...My 1st 3 years I was doing 75% wire ins and 25% my own, I used that to get my name out and slowly adjusted the numbers, now I am doing 12-15% wire ins and the rest my own, I concentrated on growing my business and growing my walk in while taking those orders, now I only fill for real florists no more tf.com, no mor ogs, none, got rid of 800 and am toying with getting rid of TF...because I know that is best for the profitability of my biz, period the end...

The businesses that have gone out of biz have noone to blame but themselves, I am sure...There needs to be many factors lined up to go out and OGs may be part of it but they are not to blame 100%...I see a whole lot of badly run biz in my area, from not being relevant, to bad attitudes, to having too much help, to having way too many ws, the bad biz decisions run the gamut and set people up for failure, lets face it in order to be a florist today, you need to have some biz skills, the more the better because otherwise you are destined to fail because someone around the corner is just better equiped to make the decisions....

OGs are not the blame for what has happened in our industry, florists are because we made them...They wanted easy orders they got them, now are paying the price. If only our forefathers could have seen what was up the road for them...now all those florists that biatched and complained about being in 6 ws and wanting 100 orders a month from them all, are just walking away from their shops because they are worthless. Silly Rabbits...at least we have the chance of changing the industry and using the knowledge of what went wrong to better our businesses and educate our silly little florist friends, if they don't want to change let them go out of biz, I call it survival of the fittest or thinning the herd....because of the economic crash supposedly we lost 3000 florists nationwide, I think we could use to lose another 3000 to begin to make us healthy as an industry....

 

[domineaux]

I am living proff that with the right set of circumstances you gan run a marginal biz with primarily ws orders...My 1st 3 years I was doing 75% wire ins and 25% my own, I used that to get my name out and slowly adjusted the numbers, now I am doing 12-15% wire ins and the rest my own, I concentrated on growing my business and growing my walk in while taking those orders, now I only fill for real florists no more tf.com, no mor ogs, none, got rid of 800 and am toying with getting rid of TF...because I know that is best for the profitability of my biz, period the end...

The businesses that have gone out of biz have noone to blame but themselves, I am sure...There needs to be many factors lined up to go out and OGs may be part of it but they are not to blame 100%...I see a whole lot of badly run biz in my area, from not being relevant, to bad attitudes, to having too much help, to having way too many ws, the bad biz decisions run the gamut and set people up for failure, lets face it in order to be a florist today, you need to have some biz skills, the more the better because otherwise you are destined to fail because someone around the corner is just better equiped to make the decisions....

OGs are not the blame for what has happened in our industry, florists are because we made them...They wanted easy orders they got them, now are paying the price. If only our forefathers could have seen what was up the road for them...now all those florists that biatched and complained about being in 6 ws and wanting 100 orders a month from them all, are just walking away from their shops because they are worthless. Silly Rabbits...at least we have the chance of changing the industry and using the knowledge of what went wrong to better our businesses and educate our silly little florist friends, if they don't want to change let them go out of biz, I call it survival of the fittest or thinning the herd....because of the economic crash supposedly we lost 3000 florists nationwide, I think we could use to lose another 3000 to begin to make us
healthy as an industry....

There are people that talk like you, not saying you. People that don't really care about growing a business. They knuckle down and operate with a very low overhead. They tweak away at the business and eventually have enough to drive an old vehicle, their store is plain, their coolers stay empty, they struggle with the bill collectors calling and in general have the equivalent of a poor paying job with all the risks of owning a business.

The failure of someone else's business will never mean prosperity for you. All new businss and businesses that survive are good for all, business is stimulated.

The OG are a principal problem, because they misrepresent themselves and the WS work with them knowing that. I remember all the so-called requirements we had to meet when we signed up for TF. The said we had to have physical store location, etc. All lies, just to disarm us as long as they could. Same goes today. Now they have phoney savethefloirsts campaigns... LOL We paid over $4,000 in WS fees (not commiissions) in the first year. That is alot of money to flow into a TF, when they produce practically ZIP to earn it.

It all comes down to what peopople want to achieve with their business.

A question we should think about when taking on new or continuing obligations will I have "Success in spite of ----or success because of "?

WS should definitely be in the "because of" way of thinking, for what it costs to be a member, sadly most of us cannot say that. I'm a glad for anyone that can pay the exorbitant WS fees and can find a way to success, but I"d say that is rare for a filling florist.

 

[Eric S]

I am living proff that with the right set of circumstances you gan run a marginal biz with primarily ws orders...My 1st 3 years I was doing 75% wire ins and 25% my own, I used that to get my name out and slowly adjusted the numbers, now I am doing 12-15% wire ins and the rest my own, I concentrated on growing my business and growing my walk in while taking those orders, now I only fill for real florists no more tf.com, no mor ogs, none, got rid of 800 and am toying with getting rid of TF...because I know that is best for the profitability of my biz, period the end...

The businesses that have gone out of biz have noone to blame but themselves, I am sure...There needs to be many factors lined up to go out and OGs may be part of it but they are not to blame 100%...I see a whole lot of badly run biz in my area, from not being relevant, to bad attitudes, to having too much help, to having way too many ws, the bad biz decisions run the gamut and set people up for failure, lets face it in order to be a florist today, you need to have some biz skills, the more the better because otherwise you are destined to fail because someone around the corner is just better equiped to make the decisions....

OGs are not the blame for what has happened in our industry, florists are because we made them...They wanted easy orders they got them, now are paying the price. If only our forefathers could have seen what was up the road for them...now all those florists that biatched and complained about being in 6 ws and wanting 100 orders a month from them all, are just walking away from their shops because they are worthless. Silly Rabbits...at least we have the chance of changing the industry and using the knowledge of what went wrong to better our businesses and educate our silly little florist friends, if they don't want to change let them go out of biz, I call it survival of the fittest or thinning the herd....because of the economic crash supposedly we lost 3000 florists nationwide, I think we could use to lose another 3000 to begin to make us healthy as an industry....

I'm so proud of you lori. I remember those early days when you where posting about bloomnet.

It just goes to show you that the best thing sometimes is to just learn from your mistakes. I only disagree with one thing and this may take time for you to relize it.

But the WS did not help you get you name out there.

You did it all yourself.

 

[lori042499]

There are people that talk like you that to be very honest don't really care about growing a business. The knuckle down and operate with a very low overhead. They tweak away at the business and eventually have enough to drive an old vehicle, their store is plain, the coolers stay empty, they struggle with the bill collectors calling and in general have the equivalent of a poor paying job with all the risks of owning a business.

The failure of someone else's business will never mean prosperity for you, unless you're the only florist in town. All new businss and businesses that survive are good for all.

The OG are a principal problem, because they misrepresent themselves and the WS work with them knowing that. I remember all the so-called requirements we had to meet when we signed up for TF. The said we had to have physical store location, etc. All lies, just to disarm us as long as they could. Same goes today. Now they have phoney savethefloirsts campaigns... LOL We paid over $4,000 in WS fees (not commiissions) in the first year. That is alot of money to flow into a TF, when they produce practically ZIP to earn it.

It all comes down to what peopople want to achieve with their business.

A question we should think about when taking on new or continuing obligations will I have "Success in spite of ----or success because of "?

WS should definitely be in the "because of" way of thinking, for what it costs to be a member, sadly most of us cannot say that.

I think you have me way wrong....I do care very much in growing my business...not sure where you get that I don't...My store may not be 100% cutting egde, but I know what my budget can and cannot do at this time to add to it...If life was perfect and i had unlimited funds I could put 150,000 dollars into a major rehab, restocking and marketing plan, but for me and many, many like me it is not in my near future, but I do everything I can to grow, flourish and change my business in order to become profitable, and I think I am doing a pretty good job, for my budget, everyone has to start somewhere, some of us just don't have the opening capital that others do and choose to do it in different ways, just to say that we tried...I am just as likely to go out of business as the next guy, I am in no way immune to that, the next decision that make could be the fatal one, but my point is that it is mine and while a ws or og may have some direct influence on the outcome, it was my decision to make the original move and my decision only, no ws or OG has forced me to be a member or fill their lousy orders and as far as I know they haven't done it to anyone else..Just because a business has regrets after joining, or signing a contract with someone does not make it their fault that the business couldn't afford the service or got caught up in a contract that made them go bankrupt, it would be the business that signed and didn't take in all the maybes into consideration...

I am very glad to know that you think of me as a bottom of the barrel shop with no business sense or style...I know right where to place you on my list..Thanks and I don't agree with you..

 

[domineaux]

You are reading to much into what I said and making it extremely personal. I certainly don't think of you as bottom of the barrel.
I have regard for anyone that is making the effort to make things work, and even my little first paragraph that put a negative spin on things... I have seen many times in my work.

Most of us know you can't make money with WS orders. The monthly fees make it almost impossible, especially if you are using the online ordering system or a POS system. There really isn't a lot of profit opportunity using WS fill ordrs, about the only way to make money is being a sender. You would still have to pay the monthly fees, so you would still have to process a decent quanity of send orders.

I know how tough it is in this business. Also, if you had the $150,000 to "do it right" it would not make sense to put it into your business. It is a very plus situation to have to work your way from scratch to a profitable business, because you learn your business well. It is always a best go to have to suffer in the beginning, because the lessons you learn will make you more competent over time. In fact, when business makes downturns you'll have a feel for it and also have an idea of things you can do that will get you through it. There are caveats of course... You must do your best to truly understand your business, which includes knowing the information that makes your business viable. You must understand what is profitable for your business, and you can't guess. You must know.

You aren't doing anything wrong until you start accepting things that aren't good and don't try to make them better.

 

[anytimeflowers]

I think we could rebut by simply posting each of the ws execs articles and then letting members comment on the article, like a blog

Not a good idea. We can and certainly do post our thoughts here on fc. To be made completely public though, would quite honestly come off as the biggest whine since Sangria. I would much rather see a few like Cathy take our thoughts and comments and mold them into something that will sound thoughtful and intelligent.

The WS in cahoots with the OG have driven a bunch of B & M shops out of business.

Not completely true. As I've said before, many many florists have been on a steady diet of ws orders for most of their careers. They didn't do anything about it, and as the advent of the internet gained speed, they did not adapt. The number of florists has been declining for 30 years or so, much longer than the internet. This is just one part of a bigger problem.

jmo

 

[domineaux]

No doubt we can pass it off to Cathy and she'll make a good response, but she cannot speak for everyone

Not a good idea. We can and certainly do post our thoughts here on fc. To be made completely public though, would quite honestly come off as the biggest whine since Sangria. I would much rather see a few like Cathy take our thoughts and comments and mold them into something that will sound thoughtful and intelligent.

Not completely true. As I've said before, many many florists have been on a steady diet of ws orders for most of their careers. They didn't do anything about it, and as the advent of the internet gained speed, they did not adapt. The number of florists has been declining for 30 years or so, much longer than the internet. This is just one part of a bigger problem.

This isn't a public forums. It is a paid subscriber forums with limited membership only to persons that have direct relationship with this business.
It particulary annoys me that the WS have the last word on the article, especially in a major publication of our industry.

The WS responses sweet talk just drives me up the wall. Worse still they continue to get away with it.

 

[anytimeflowers]

No doubt we can pass it off to Cathy and she'll make a good response, but she cannot speak for everyone

I don't look at it as passing it off. It makes good business sense to let a few with respected reputations gather the content in this private forum and present it in a less blunt fashion.



This isn't a public forums. It is a paid subscriber forums with limited membership only to persons that have direct relationship with this business.

.......really?

 

[domineaux]

Anytimeflowers

When I run my simple little spreadsheet (linked in my sig) I cannot find a way to achieve any sensible profitability with Wire services for order fill florists.

Maybe you could take the little spreadsheet and poke some numbers into it that. Maybe you cand find a way to prove by the numbers that WS can be profitable for order filling florsts. You may use the little spreadsheet and illustrate with some numbers we can agree about. You might want to explain some of your thoughts as well

Make it an attachment on a posting and we can download it and review it with your explanation.

I'm not trying to put you on the spot. I seriously could not find a way to make WS work for Fill florists, and totally impossible if the fill florist was using the Online order system or POS system. The monthly fees are just too expensive to offset.

This is not a challenge to make you look bad. When I designed that little sheet it wasn't intended to make WS look bad. We were still using WS, and I was trying to crunch numbers anyway I could to find a way to make WS work.

I concluded the only way was to build OG site, and start pumping orders through the system just like everyone else making money by using WS as sender florist. The idea of becoming part of the problem as an OG doesn't appeal to me. Some increases in send orders would help, but without some serious marketing it would be difficult to acquire an adequate number of send orders.