anytimeflowers
Linda
What the he!! are you talking about? I don't belong to any wire service and I am all about bringing down deceptive og's such as bloomstoady. I cannot comprehend where you came up with such a weird reply.
Article Florists' Review wire service article
- Thread starter DavidCoake
- Start date
What the he!! are you talking about? I don't belong to any wire service and I am all about bringing down deceptive og's such as bloomstoady. I cannot comprehend where you came up with such a weird reply.
Your responses all sounded to me as if you were defending the WS.
My response to you may still have value, maybe someone would like to defend the WS.
So let them rip, using my own spreadsheet or through some other method of their own.
However, we don't need more high tone rhetoric. We need numbers and sensible explanations.
The WS execs aren't going to talk numbers, yet the crux of the matter is profits and losses from WS affiliation.
My response to you may still have value, maybe someone would like to defend the WS.
So let them rip, using my own spreadsheet or through some other method of their own.
However, we don't need more high tone rhetoric. We need numbers and sensible explanations.
The WS execs aren't going to talk numbers, yet the crux of the matter is profits and losses from WS affiliation.
I've thought about this all day. There ARE shops that use wire services and the incoming orders in such a way as to make them money-makers. Several former FC'ers specifically come to mind as shops that use wire services effectively to generate a profit. The common denominator in this is that the people are astute businessmen who understand their own unique floral business.
With the possible exception of International Sending and Recieving.....of which FTD still has the best service for that, I am of the opinion that the wire services are dated, past their usefulness, and redundant in today's floral marketplace.
I am of the opinion that a Brick and Mortar Florist business CAN be opened in today's volatile economy and make a successful go of it. The owner should be an astute businessperson who understands the floral industry as it was, as it is, and as they project it will be. I myself am considering buying into or opening my own floral business. The floral business that we see most often are built on the businessmodels of the past......that had wire services as an integral part of the business model. This is the type of shop that we see failing left and right most often.
A successful shop in today's marketplace and volatile economic environment also needs to have in my opinion an understanding of their competitions strengths and weaknesses. This includes competitors such as the wire services and dot.coms, to other floral businesses in your town, to other stores that sell similar services or merchandise. You should know the design styles of the shops in your neighborhood/service area, You should know their operating hours, You should know their product line, You should know what the skill levels are....So you can EXCEED them in all aspects of the floral business.
I work in a home decor superstore called Carolina Pottery. We have a large permanent botanical floral department. There are other stores though that have permanent botanical departments.......Michael's Crafts, Hobby Lobby, and AC Moore. I ROUTINELY go into those stores......and look at the designs/ look at the color combinations/look at the flowers being sold/ and then I go back and try to EXCEED them in all aspects..........and I am friends with one of the Michael's designers.............to the point that I am helping him with his stage presentation for the SC Florist Association convention coming up.
Several of you have spreadsheets/formulations/charts that graphically illustrate the profit or loss associated with wire service affliation. Ultimately, It is up to the individual businessman/woman to determine if wire affliation is a neccesary part of their business or not.
With the possible exception of International Sending and Recieving.....of which FTD still has the best service for that, I am of the opinion that the wire services are dated, past their usefulness, and redundant in today's floral marketplace.
I am of the opinion that a Brick and Mortar Florist business CAN be opened in today's volatile economy and make a successful go of it. The owner should be an astute businessperson who understands the floral industry as it was, as it is, and as they project it will be. I myself am considering buying into or opening my own floral business. The floral business that we see most often are built on the businessmodels of the past......that had wire services as an integral part of the business model. This is the type of shop that we see failing left and right most often.
A successful shop in today's marketplace and volatile economic environment also needs to have in my opinion an understanding of their competitions strengths and weaknesses. This includes competitors such as the wire services and dot.coms, to other floral businesses in your town, to other stores that sell similar services or merchandise. You should know the design styles of the shops in your neighborhood/service area, You should know their operating hours, You should know their product line, You should know what the skill levels are....So you can EXCEED them in all aspects of the floral business.
I work in a home decor superstore called Carolina Pottery. We have a large permanent botanical floral department. There are other stores though that have permanent botanical departments.......Michael's Crafts, Hobby Lobby, and AC Moore. I ROUTINELY go into those stores......and look at the designs/ look at the color combinations/look at the flowers being sold/ and then I go back and try to EXCEED them in all aspects..........and I am friends with one of the Michael's designers.............to the point that I am helping him with his stage presentation for the SC Florist Association convention coming up.
Several of you have spreadsheets/formulations/charts that graphically illustrate the profit or loss associated with wire service affliation. Ultimately, It is up to the individual businessman/woman to determine if wire affliation is a neccesary part of their business or not.
I remember getting free stock tips. I never acted on them, because opinons and advice aren't worth much when the opinon giver has nothing to lose.
You have all the credentials. You appear to have made it a requirement to know all you can know about the flower business.
Now all it takes is most or all of your savings, borrowing to the hilt and sticking your neck out.
The of course you shouldn't overlook all the hard work and long hours, no going home after eight hours on the job.
It takes guts to put your neck out and go for broke, because there is always the possibility of the latter... LOL
Well, I went with a friend of mine today to visit some of the Greater Atlanta area importers and wholesale import distributors/ and floral distributors/ as well as the big market there. I am still learning, may I never stop, and now, I am seeing things that can make it work, now for me to figure out how without putting everything I have already at risk of losing.
Very serious... I suggest you take a wait. This economy could be beyond recognition within the next 3 years, and I don't mean for the good.
If you can't wait I'd suggest a few things.
You should look for a very good deal Think about acquiring an existing shop that needs vitalizing. Starting from scratch in this economy would definitely be difficult.
Right now, I believe you can probably find a shop you can buy very reasonable, even if it's not advertised for sale.
You can look around for a shop you'd like to own, and start by approaching the owner.
Calling business owners is not a best course, because you would just be a voice on the phone.
It will be hard to get most owners to talk and share much about their business... unless they are motivated to sell.
So... if they don't talk and share about their business when you are face to face it's probably a waste of time.
You really should look for motivated seller so you can make a good deal.
No sense paying a business broker... that's he'll just call approach the business like you would.
Business broker commission is 10% in most cases, and believe me... the buyer is paying the commission no matter how you word the buyout agreement.
I would you say you can find a shop at a good price in all moderate sized cities.
There are plenty of people that would love to bail now.
If you look hard enough and talk to enough owners I'd bet you can buy a shop for half the value of the equipment and inventory or even less.
Serious stuff here, there are plenty of shops where the owners will almost pay you to take over their obligations.
You should think very seriously before buying a shop that isn't doing the kind of work you expect to do.
It is a much more difficult task to change the image of a shop that is established in the minds of customers.
If you can't wait I'd suggest a few things.
You should look for a very good deal Think about acquiring an existing shop that needs vitalizing. Starting from scratch in this economy would definitely be difficult.
Right now, I believe you can probably find a shop you can buy very reasonable, even if it's not advertised for sale.
You can look around for a shop you'd like to own, and start by approaching the owner.
Calling business owners is not a best course, because you would just be a voice on the phone.
It will be hard to get most owners to talk and share much about their business... unless they are motivated to sell.
So... if they don't talk and share about their business when you are face to face it's probably a waste of time.
You really should look for motivated seller so you can make a good deal.
No sense paying a business broker... that's he'll just call approach the business like you would.
Business broker commission is 10% in most cases, and believe me... the buyer is paying the commission no matter how you word the buyout agreement.
I would you say you can find a shop at a good price in all moderate sized cities.
There are plenty of people that would love to bail now.
If you look hard enough and talk to enough owners I'd bet you can buy a shop for half the value of the equipment and inventory or even less.
Serious stuff here, there are plenty of shops where the owners will almost pay you to take over their obligations.
You should think very seriously before buying a shop that isn't doing the kind of work you expect to do.
It is a much more difficult task to change the image of a shop that is established in the minds of customers.
Mikey the Flower Guy
It's a GREAT DAY to live, and love!
- Nov 10, 2002
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I am surprised with everyone's response to this article. The answer is simple cancel your wire services and put these coporations out of business. Support your industry. If every florist refused to fill wire services and order gathers orders the public would have to go direct and you will turn a profit.
In December 2009, I canceled Teleflora because I paid them 200.00 a month. I don't work for free or pay to work. The first quarter 2010 I began scrutinizing my statements and decided to go through Mother's Day with FTD and Bloomnet. My costs were at the bare minimum of free labor, my family, no codified products. We worked hard and fast! Both wire services took right off the top 43% to 51%. Now factor in my COGS which is 30% and, if, I paid my labor and gas, every order is a loss! Every month is a LOSS!
In the meantime, I published a new website with a shopping cart and the orders are coming in. You can do the same. Just remember your in business for profit. I am canceling both wire services this week before the next directories. Currently, I am only taking orders until their bill is paid and for the remaining month the systems are suspended.
I am happy that finally turning a profit, my orders are filled to value, no free orders to their customers, and gorgeous. COME ON FLORISTS do your math and stop filling the orders. The public will have to go direct to a florists and you can send orders with your credit card. Be in control of your business and cancel. PUT these corporations out of business. Scrutinize and powers up. I DID!
In December 2009, I canceled Teleflora because I paid them 200.00 a month. I don't work for free or pay to work. The first quarter 2010 I began scrutinizing my statements and decided to go through Mother's Day with FTD and Bloomnet. My costs were at the bare minimum of free labor, my family, no codified products. We worked hard and fast! Both wire services took right off the top 43% to 51%. Now factor in my COGS which is 30% and, if, I paid my labor and gas, every order is a loss! Every month is a LOSS!
In the meantime, I published a new website with a shopping cart and the orders are coming in. You can do the same. Just remember your in business for profit. I am canceling both wire services this week before the next directories. Currently, I am only taking orders until their bill is paid and for the remaining month the systems are suspended.
I am happy that finally turning a profit, my orders are filled to value, no free orders to their customers, and gorgeous. COME ON FLORISTS do your math and stop filling the orders. The public will have to go direct to a florists and you can send orders with your credit card. Be in control of your business and cancel. PUT these corporations out of business. Scrutinize and powers up. I DID!
You be right on maann...
The biggest obstacle of all. There aren't enough florists on this forums, or on the internet. You would be astonished at how many little mom and pop there are that just plug on like they have in the past.
Too many florists still think the WS is their friend.
The biggest obstacle of all. There aren't enough florists on this forums, or on the internet. You would be astonished at how many little mom and pop there are that just plug on like they have in the past.
Too many florists still think the WS is their friend.
One at a time is a start. Furthermore, each time you speak to a florist tell them! I am until August. They are cutting their own throats, PROFITS.
duanermb
New Member
As much as I hate to always be the realist here, they will never go out of business no matter what we do. In fact, I think it is better for florists to find a way to be profitable filling these orders and keep the orders within the retail florists system. There will always be money to be made sending flowers on a national level, and as long as there is money to be made, there will be competition for retail florists.
These companies will always find a way to do it, and it will either involve us, or it won't. Threatening them is purely idle, and will do us no good in the long run. The likely-hood is that the system will always involve florists and with 26 FTD florists in my town, if one quits, there are 25 other reasons for them to stay in this market, and 26 will never quit. Could you imagine how efficient you could be sending all the orders for a center with close to a million people?
Remember, as the numbers in fillers dwindle, you quit and your buddy quits, you give more orders to someone else, making them higher volume and higher profit, not only on the wire orders, but on their everyday business.
It's been said by some real savvy florists out there, that they want "every order that's coming to my city to be provided by my shop". Food for thought.
Wholesalers have been providing flowers and pre-made arrangements from design centers of several dozen or more assembly line designers in Winnipeg for decades, what's to stop them from taking over the wire business if everyone decided to quit? Supermarkets are also happy making 15% margin on their flowers, while we seem to require 50%.
While we remain a smaller florists, and WS free, I have spoken with florists in larger centers who do up to 50% of their business filling wires and one of them drives a Porsche.
Perhaps one day, the smaller towns will get the deal they rightly deserve, and the membership will be free, but its a matter of supply and demand. If I was a WS and there are 2 fillers in a town of 5000 what's my motivation to provide a better deal. If they have no coverage, why not eliminate the fees all together to provide better service. In a town of 26 fillers, they should raise their monthly fees and only work with the really dedicated fillers.
I give top props to florists who do their research. Deciding to be in or out is a very tough call to make, and it took me well over a year to make the decision not to get involved with the big wire services, but it is never a closed door. There may be a day when we can make money on it, and there may not.
And, with the exception of the loose affiliate agreementes, the allowance of deceptive advertising and tax breaks for out of state/province orders, I have no real issue with them. Its just business.
YOUR RESPONSE "As much as I hate to always be the realist here, they will never go out of business no matter what we do. In fact, I think it is better for florists to find a way to be profitable filling these orders and keep the orders within the retail florists system. There will always be money to be made sending flowers on a national level, and as long as there is money to be made, there will be competition for retail florists.
These companies will always find a way to do it, and it will either involve us, or it won't. Threatening them is purely idle, and will do us no good in the long run. The likely-hood is that the system will always involve florists and with 26 FTD florists in my town, if one quits, there are 25 other reasons for them to stay in this market, and 26 will never quit. Could you imagine how efficient you could be sending all the orders for a center with close to a million people?"
My Answer:
26 Florists who work for free then they deserve it. You state "try to make the orders profitable?" You can't. I don't threat I act. I always wondered the past two 1/2 years why florist continue to work for no profit? Now I know. They are afraid and have bought into the non-sense. Do the Math. You sound like a Wire Service... Good Luck with the madness, however, I am a smart business woman and you can't beat them by staying. Putting them out of business is a 70% Profit Margin for Florist. You don't give the consumer any benefit of the doubt. Do you really believe, if, Teleflora, FTD, 1800Flowers were shut down that they want ProFlowers? You are sadly mistaken? Good Luck to you!
P.S. Wire Services "Can only involve Us" as long as you work for free! Tailored Florals works for me and for profits not a negatives. It is just good business sense. As previously stated 26 Florists GO BROKE! Not my problem.
These companies will always find a way to do it, and it will either involve us, or it won't. Threatening them is purely idle, and will do us no good in the long run. The likely-hood is that the system will always involve florists and with 26 FTD florists in my town, if one quits, there are 25 other reasons for them to stay in this market, and 26 will never quit. Could you imagine how efficient you could be sending all the orders for a center with close to a million people?"
My Answer:
26 Florists who work for free then they deserve it. You state "try to make the orders profitable?" You can't. I don't threat I act. I always wondered the past two 1/2 years why florist continue to work for no profit? Now I know. They are afraid and have bought into the non-sense. Do the Math. You sound like a Wire Service... Good Luck with the madness, however, I am a smart business woman and you can't beat them by staying. Putting them out of business is a 70% Profit Margin for Florist. You don't give the consumer any benefit of the doubt. Do you really believe, if, Teleflora, FTD, 1800Flowers were shut down that they want ProFlowers? You are sadly mistaken? Good Luck to you!
P.S. Wire Services "Can only involve Us" as long as you work for free! Tailored Florals works for me and for profits not a negatives. It is just good business sense. As previously stated 26 Florists GO BROKE! Not my problem.
BOSS
FlowerChat Administrator
I don't care what the WS do. When you run your business to suit yourself and you are making money. Who cares?
We use the internet on send orders Google Search for === florist or flowers + a city name, i.e, Des Moines, IA and get all the florists we need to fill an order. We pay by CC and deduct 20% commission. The customer gets a better arrangement, the fill florist gets their money pronto, and we make a new friend. You can't beat it.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&...es,+iA&btnG=Search&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=
Pretty as you please, and simple as dirt. I've got a list of fill florists and most have websites so you can see the type of work they do. and plenty of contact information is available in local business listings.
Anyone still paying wire service that has a CC and knows how to type in flowers and a city name can do the same. I can't imagine anyone needing a wire service, because we all know the only way you can make any money is by sending orders... not filling orders from WS.
The fill florists we call from a google search get the full 80% + the delivery fee. The customer isn't getting screwed over with unusual fees, the fill florist is getting a fair shake and the truth about what the order sold for. No torquing with people, just good straight up honest business. Any florist can profitably fill those kind of orders. I think it would be better, and more cooperative to only have a 10% commission to the send florist. It would eventually completely wipe out the OG, because there is no way they can make it and stay in business on 10% of the order.
The WS are not needed, and all I can see them doing eventually is becoming OG themselves. They won't survive then if we all went to 10% commission for send orders.
People like 1800 and ProFlowers will probably survive like they have with boxed, non arranged flowers. I think there will always be business like that.
It is going to be a education process, because too many florists still have expectations the WS will one day go back to being the old FTD,etc. LOL
Florists need to get pragmatic and look for results NOW, not sit around and wait for the WS to do something for them.
We use the internet on send orders Google Search for === florist or flowers + a city name, i.e, Des Moines, IA and get all the florists we need to fill an order. We pay by CC and deduct 20% commission. The customer gets a better arrangement, the fill florist gets their money pronto, and we make a new friend. You can't beat it.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&...es,+iA&btnG=Search&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=
Pretty as you please, and simple as dirt. I've got a list of fill florists and most have websites so you can see the type of work they do. and plenty of contact information is available in local business listings.
Anyone still paying wire service that has a CC and knows how to type in flowers and a city name can do the same. I can't imagine anyone needing a wire service, because we all know the only way you can make any money is by sending orders... not filling orders from WS.
The fill florists we call from a google search get the full 80% + the delivery fee. The customer isn't getting screwed over with unusual fees, the fill florist is getting a fair shake and the truth about what the order sold for. No torquing with people, just good straight up honest business. Any florist can profitably fill those kind of orders. I think it would be better, and more cooperative to only have a 10% commission to the send florist. It would eventually completely wipe out the OG, because there is no way they can make it and stay in business on 10% of the order.
The WS are not needed, and all I can see them doing eventually is becoming OG themselves. They won't survive then if we all went to 10% commission for send orders.
People like 1800 and ProFlowers will probably survive like they have with boxed, non arranged flowers. I think there will always be business like that.
It is going to be a education process, because too many florists still have expectations the WS will one day go back to being the old FTD,etc. LOL
Florists need to get pragmatic and look for results NOW, not sit around and wait for the WS to do something for them.
duanermb
New Member
duanermb
New Member
Just providing a sober different point of view based on logical analysis of the entire floral business. We are a part of it, and we get smaller in market share every day, while the supermarkets and department stores gain market share. People aren't buying less flowers, people are buying less flowers from florists.
Based on said analysis, which in my case was extensive, perhaps I can't, and you can't, but you can bet there is someone who can, and always will, that's my point.
My other point was, that this will never happen.
BOSS
FlowerChat Administrator
I know, but you know me....
They tell me I'm a radical troublemaker
Have a great SONday......
Just a reminder - EZBloomers.com addresses all of your wire service concerns and then some.
You have nothing to lose and everything to gain - besides getting national orders you can send each other orders.
Do your part to put an end to the wire service era and return the industry back to the retail florists.
You have nothing to lose and everything to gain - besides getting national orders you can send each other orders.
Do your part to put an end to the wire service era and return the industry back to the retail florists.
holland1
Member
- Jul 21, 2009
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- NL
I'm coming into this discussion very late as I have not had a chance to log into FC for the past few weeks. I agree that the present WS business model is fundamentally flawed because it is weighted overwhelmingly in favour of senders and leaves virtually nothing by way of profit for the filling florists who have to bear all of the cost of goods, labour and physical overhead expenses to get the flowers to the recipient. But Duane MeLennan is making a very important point that people seem to be overlooking in their moral outrage about wire services.
Let's take a long-term view of this and face up to the very real possibility that the wire services may eventually concentrate all of their filling business, at least in regions with a sufficiently concentrated population base, with a small number of very efficient order fillers. With the combined might of the wire services marketing budgets and economies of scale that such a model offers, the surviving independent florists may find we are losing even more market share than we've lost to the supermarkets and box stores. We need to face up to this possibility and develop business strategies that allow independents to compete effectively. Railing about the damage being done by misleading business practices of dOGs is fine as long as we get beyond the whining and take effective action to deal with present challenges. Dropping WS membership may be part of the solution, but it may also accelerate an onslaught of new challenges. Duane is right to keep his options open. As many others in this thread have pointed out, one of the most important things we can do as independents is to strengthen our own online marketing by building effective websites and supporting each other through direct referrals.
John Frecker
Holland Nurseries
401 Torbay Road
St. John's Newfoundland, Canada
Let's take a long-term view of this and face up to the very real possibility that the wire services may eventually concentrate all of their filling business, at least in regions with a sufficiently concentrated population base, with a small number of very efficient order fillers. With the combined might of the wire services marketing budgets and economies of scale that such a model offers, the surviving independent florists may find we are losing even more market share than we've lost to the supermarkets and box stores. We need to face up to this possibility and develop business strategies that allow independents to compete effectively. Railing about the damage being done by misleading business practices of dOGs is fine as long as we get beyond the whining and take effective action to deal with present challenges. Dropping WS membership may be part of the solution, but it may also accelerate an onslaught of new challenges. Duane is right to keep his options open. As many others in this thread have pointed out, one of the most important things we can do as independents is to strengthen our own online marketing by building effective websites and supporting each other through direct referrals.
John Frecker
Holland Nurseries
401 Torbay Road
St. John's Newfoundland, Canada
anytimeflowers
Linda
John,
These are excellent, excellent points. Thanking you in the thread was not enough for me, you state my beliefs eloquently.
Linda
These are excellent, excellent points. Thanking you in the thread was not enough for me, you state my beliefs eloquently.
Linda