CHERYL BAKIN
New Member
Agreed:
Now, let's all work on the "how" and "get it done, please!! I am a woman of action! My hair is turning WHITE while we fiddle in Rome and the fires burn the place down!
Cheryl
FTD.com changes
- Thread starter bloomz
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Agreed:
Now, let's all work on the "how" and "get it done, please!! I am a woman of action! My hair is turning WHITE while we fiddle in Rome and the fires burn the place down!
Cheryl
LJVF
Well-Known Member
I'm still not sold on the whole box thing, so I guess I'm kinda in the middle in all this. The only reason ProFlowers is dropshipping is because they have to.
If we're talking shipping our product to other cities, then yes, I can see this as a possible untapped opportunity.
But if we're talking delivering DIY kits as gifts to our local customers, I just don't get it.
It really comes down to pricing. Which product would the majority of senders and the recipients prefer as a GIFT for the same price? A fancy drop box of 12 beautiful DIY roses with a vase on the side? Or an arrangement of 12 beautiful roses already designed by the florist in a vase with water presented as gift. I'd put my money on the latter and I think the latter would win more times than not (as long as price were equal).
Disclaimer: I'm not discounting the DIY market, just not in this capacity. I really do think Oberer's is on the right track.
If we're talking shipping our product to other cities, then yes, I can see this as a possible untapped opportunity.
But if we're talking delivering DIY kits as gifts to our local customers, I just don't get it.
It really comes down to pricing. Which product would the majority of senders and the recipients prefer as a GIFT for the same price? A fancy drop box of 12 beautiful DIY roses with a vase on the side? Or an arrangement of 12 beautiful roses already designed by the florist in a vase with water presented as gift. I'd put my money on the latter and I think the latter would win more times than not (as long as price were equal).
Disclaimer: I'm not discounting the DIY market, just not in this capacity. I really do think Oberer's is on the right track.
LJVF
Well-Known Member
You must have posted this as I was replying (previous post), but yes I agree with this!
No one knows the answer, so why not try both and see which ones sell more. Experiment. We don't have to like the results, you know?
LJVF
Well-Known Member
CHERYL BAKIN
New Member
Darell:
Look at this from the consumer point of view, and from the demographics of your consumer today.
1. The older consumer (over age 45+) yes, would want to give & receive the flowers in a vase, beautifully arranged. This market would generally not want a boxed set of roses.
2. The younger generation (under 30) does because they don't place so much value on the arranged concept & because their wife (girfriend) has lots of pretty vases, and because they want to buy cheap!!
3. The middle generation (ages 30 to 45) will go either way, depending upon how much $$ they have to spend, and how expensive the product is.
In these tough economic times, people are choosing with the wallets!
We have gotten people to buy flowers more often (instead of just Mothers Day & christmas) ---- now we have to get them to understand that florists can supply all those flowers to them for whatever they need -- and that they don't have to be expensive!!
It's not a matter of what I (or you) see as more beautiful.
It's what YOUR CUSTOMER WANTS TO BUY.
It concerns me greatly that PF got 53% of the VD sales this year. This number shocks me, and distresses me. We cannot afford to let go of another piece of the flower market without a fight!!
If people what boxed flowers, then I will sell boxed flowers!
If they want 1 rose delivered, then I will deiiver 1 rose!
If people want a monofloral design, at a great price, then they will get it!
MY GOAL IS TO GIVE MY CUSTOMER WHAT THEY WANT, WHEN THEY WANT IT, AT A PRICE THEY ARE WILLING TO PAY.
I do not have the economies of scale that RC can bring to bear....but I can bring some of the same ideas to my operation. (I do not have to re-invent the wheel each & every time.) I also refuse to operate with my head stuck in the sand....married to the way they we did business 15, 10 or even 2 years ago. The world is changing quickly. I will change or I will get off the merry go round!
We re putting some of this stuff into place in my shop starting this week. I'll keep you posted on how we're doing.
Cheryl
Look at this from the consumer point of view, and from the demographics of your consumer today.
1. The older consumer (over age 45+) yes, would want to give & receive the flowers in a vase, beautifully arranged. This market would generally not want a boxed set of roses.
2. The younger generation (under 30) does because they don't place so much value on the arranged concept & because their wife (girfriend) has lots of pretty vases, and because they want to buy cheap!!
3. The middle generation (ages 30 to 45) will go either way, depending upon how much $$ they have to spend, and how expensive the product is.
In these tough economic times, people are choosing with the wallets!
We have gotten people to buy flowers more often (instead of just Mothers Day & christmas) ---- now we have to get them to understand that florists can supply all those flowers to them for whatever they need -- and that they don't have to be expensive!!
It's not a matter of what I (or you) see as more beautiful.
It's what YOUR CUSTOMER WANTS TO BUY.
It concerns me greatly that PF got 53% of the VD sales this year. This number shocks me, and distresses me. We cannot afford to let go of another piece of the flower market without a fight!!
If people what boxed flowers, then I will sell boxed flowers!
If they want 1 rose delivered, then I will deiiver 1 rose!
If people want a monofloral design, at a great price, then they will get it!
MY GOAL IS TO GIVE MY CUSTOMER WHAT THEY WANT, WHEN THEY WANT IT, AT A PRICE THEY ARE WILLING TO PAY.
I do not have the economies of scale that RC can bring to bear....but I can bring some of the same ideas to my operation. (I do not have to re-invent the wheel each & every time.) I also refuse to operate with my head stuck in the sand....married to the way they we did business 15, 10 or even 2 years ago. The world is changing quickly. I will change or I will get off the merry go round!
We re putting some of this stuff into place in my shop starting this week. I'll keep you posted on how we're doing.
Cheryl
LJVF
Well-Known Member
Cheryl I still think it boils down to price and of course marketing. But I'm willing to try and go into this with an open mind. There are a lot of really smart florists in this thread, who am I to argue with them? Like goldie said, we'll never know unless we try.
If DIY boxed kits are what people want as gifts, then I'm in. I have an open mind because we NEED to shift our thinking.
Please keep us updated on your experiments, I also have a few of my own going on right now.
If DIY boxed kits are what people want as gifts, then I'm in. I have an open mind because we NEED to shift our thinking.
Please keep us updated on your experiments, I also have a few of my own going on right now.
CHERYL BAKIN
New Member
Darell,
Now you are getting it........
Ask yourself about a million time a day:
"If I am a consumer what do I want for xx$$ ? "
(and beer and sex are not correct answers!
)
As Goldie says, We need to experiment. If we don't like the results, try something different. (Much as you are experimenting with RC's email concept). You are not locked into a longterm contract on anything.
if you need to buy packaging, buy in the smallest quantity until you see how it goes.
Cheryl
Now you are getting it........
Ask yourself about a million time a day:
"If I am a consumer what do I want for xx$$ ? "
(and beer and sex are not correct answers!
)As Goldie says, We need to experiment. If we don't like the results, try something different. (Much as you are experimenting with RC's email concept). You are not locked into a longterm contract on anything.
if you need to buy packaging, buy in the smallest quantity until you see how it goes.
Cheryl
This next statement hit me like a ton of bricks last night - It is so glaringly obvious....that the old adage applies - You can't see the forest for the trees.
Ok - JB's shop/store is in Corvallis Oregon, Goldie's shop/store is in New York, Cheryl's shop is in PA......Im in South Carolina..
Point is, We are in vastly different locations.
Keeping that in mind - Let's suppose that the drop-shippers are still around, everything is the same EXCEPT.....the animal known as a WIRE SERVICE do not exist.
The drop shippers - because they use FEDEX/UPS/DHL or a shipping company have nationwide coverage - but, they are at the mercy of that shipper who decided how fast to drive, whether or not to put theirpackage on the bottom of the truck.....all kinds of variable out of their hands.
Ok - If the dropshippers capture millions of sales.....How many of those sales originate in JB's local area? How many of those sales originate in Goldie's local area? and so on. THE KEY WORDS are....ORIGINATE ( begin) and LOCAL AREA
See, here is the point - WE need to capture OUR LOCAL MARKETS.....JB cannot service Swansea, SC, Cheryl cannot service Oregon. I can't service New York. -
I can;t take an order and immediately run out the door with a box of flowers, hop into a air conditioned van, drive breakneck speed across several states, hunt a house in Corvallis Oregon, knock on the door the very next day....and say " I have flowers for you"
BUT, I CAN DO THAT FOR MY LOCAL AREA.
By CAPTURING YOUR LOCAL MARKET - we make a far bigger dent in the dropshipper coffers.
Ok - JB's shop/store is in Corvallis Oregon, Goldie's shop/store is in New York, Cheryl's shop is in PA......Im in South Carolina..
Point is, We are in vastly different locations.
Keeping that in mind - Let's suppose that the drop-shippers are still around, everything is the same EXCEPT.....the animal known as a WIRE SERVICE do not exist.
The drop shippers - because they use FEDEX/UPS/DHL or a shipping company have nationwide coverage - but, they are at the mercy of that shipper who decided how fast to drive, whether or not to put theirpackage on the bottom of the truck.....all kinds of variable out of their hands.
Ok - If the dropshippers capture millions of sales.....How many of those sales originate in JB's local area? How many of those sales originate in Goldie's local area? and so on. THE KEY WORDS are....ORIGINATE ( begin) and LOCAL AREA
See, here is the point - WE need to capture OUR LOCAL MARKETS.....JB cannot service Swansea, SC, Cheryl cannot service Oregon. I can't service New York. -
I can;t take an order and immediately run out the door with a box of flowers, hop into a air conditioned van, drive breakneck speed across several states, hunt a house in Corvallis Oregon, knock on the door the very next day....and say " I have flowers for you"
BUT, I CAN DO THAT FOR MY LOCAL AREA.
By CAPTURING YOUR LOCAL MARKET - we make a far bigger dent in the dropshipper coffers.
Sher
New Member
My point is similiar to Ricks...you dont necessarily have to drop ship it..we don't and I am sorry if I lead anyone to believe that..what we did was to print up 5000 postcards( all mixed colored roses)...no, not all were mailed out at the same time..when we knew we could get a special pricing on roses..like for a month..we sent them out on delivered orders, dropped them of at offices and mailed some...then we got responses....as soon as my new boxes come in I will add that picture to my website...
The point is that unless your consumer knows you can do the same but better delivery at a reasonable price on the same day ..they will continue to go to the dropshippers...I know I wont take away all of the WS business...but I will capture some of it in my area..simple...now if I knew I had 50 florists around the country doing the same thing..then that becomes a home run...and truthfully between strider sites and media99 sites, there is a lot of power to advertise as well as to offer services...it;s like Cheryl said..its getting us together that is often the issue. So who is ordering boxes today or will we be talking this over next year ?
Sher
And I do not think this will ever replace quality design...ever...that plays a very important role in my shop...with that being said...if I can grab 20 or 30 consumers into the mix a month with this..then at some point in time..they will want something else...the point is to "get them in".
The point is that unless your consumer knows you can do the same but better delivery at a reasonable price on the same day ..they will continue to go to the dropshippers...I know I wont take away all of the WS business...but I will capture some of it in my area..simple...now if I knew I had 50 florists around the country doing the same thing..then that becomes a home run...and truthfully between strider sites and media99 sites, there is a lot of power to advertise as well as to offer services...it;s like Cheryl said..its getting us together that is often the issue. So who is ordering boxes today or will we be talking this over next year ?
Sher
And I do not think this will ever replace quality design...ever...that plays a very important role in my shop...with that being said...if I can grab 20 or 30 consumers into the mix a month with this..then at some point in time..they will want something else...the point is to "get them in".
Tis easy
In the UK circa 70% of all flowers delivered by florists to customers are hand tieds and we don't have probelms and certainly don't need a box. We either bubble/aqua wrap and they self stand (or if you're worried you pop them in a bucket) or you can use a disposable delivery box or a long handled bag.
Will try and post pics ASAP or you can go to my site www.masterflorist.com which has some examples in the design pages. But honestly it really isn't a problem even if you use a delivery pool (we don't ahve those over here!)
In the UK circa 70% of all flowers delivered by florists to customers are hand tieds and we don't have probelms and certainly don't need a box. We either bubble/aqua wrap and they self stand (or if you're worried you pop them in a bucket) or you can use a disposable delivery box or a long handled bag.
Will try and post pics ASAP or you can go to my site www.masterflorist.com which has some examples in the design pages. But honestly it really isn't a problem even if you use a delivery pool (we don't ahve those over here!)
LJVF
Well-Known Member
Thanks Carrington!
The paths have become more clear to me now. I'm not sure about the rest, but I had become completely confused by this thread. There are three ideas being discussed here:
Idea 1: The box has nothing to do with the success. It's marketing, the flowers and perceived value.
Idea 2: I feel this is something the traditional florist has always offered, a la 1 dozen boxed roses. Could this make a surge in popularity? Possibly.
Idea 3: Now we're talking, this could be the future. I think the youtube video I posted earlier in this thread is something to seriously look at.
But the important lesson to take from this thread is that ProFlowers slice of the pie will continue to grow at an alarming rate, unless we florists improve the perceived value of our products.
The paths have become more clear to me now. I'm not sure about the rest, but I had become completely confused by this thread. There are three ideas being discussed here:
- Shipping DIY flowers to other cities in a box
- Delivering DIY flowers in a fancy box within a local city
- Deliver hand-tied bouquets using a gift box as a means of packaging. Similar to what's being done in Europe
Idea 1: The box has nothing to do with the success. It's marketing, the flowers and perceived value.
Idea 2: I feel this is something the traditional florist has always offered, a la 1 dozen boxed roses. Could this make a surge in popularity? Possibly.
Idea 3: Now we're talking, this could be the future. I think the youtube video I posted earlier in this thread is something to seriously look at.
But the important lesson to take from this thread is that ProFlowers slice of the pie will continue to grow at an alarming rate, unless we florists improve the perceived value of our products.
My views and why there are actually five options!
Still not sure how to do multiple quotes so an assortment of answers in a delightful shade of pink!
As to why I think there are five options I think there is confusion over the term delivery box. Therefore if we take the UK as a role model this is what is happening at the moment
1: Shipping DIY flowers to other cities in a (big ugly) box
This is ONLY (and should only in my opinion) be done by mass marketeers like Interflora/Tesco (through their agents), Flying Flowers etc. It is similar to Profowers but not usually accompanied by a vase.
2: Delivering DIY flowers in a fancy box within a local city
We sell them as 'flat packs (ghastly name and more remisinsent of self assembly furniture). Went out of fashion when hand tieds came in ... now making a small resurgance. I like this concept as easy to do and think putting them in a gorgeous box is far nicer.
3, 4 and 5! Deliver hand-tied bouquets using a gift box as a means of packaging. Similar to what's being done in Europe
Three different permutations of this on a theme and why you need to think very hard about what you do.
1: UK florists deliver hand tieds to local addresses and deliver them in small transporter boxes/paper vases or just bubbles of water. They DO NOT use a big box as seen in the video.
2: Drop ship companies in the UK - like Arena who featured in the video - use a huge box to deliver hand tieds to any location in the UK ... even if it's hundreds of miles away.
3: An increasing number of UK florists are now sending thier OWN flowers in the same sort of courier boxes because
a: they make more money on the order (average delivery price £6)
b: The customer likes knowing that they can choose the flowers, write the card and that it is their preferred florist making the design.
c: It keeps the whole transaction local.
Hope that clarifies it more ... let me know
Carrington
Still not sure how to do multiple quotes so an assortment of answers in a delightful shade of pink!
As will all of them and why I urge every florist to not only update and rethink but to focus far more 'locally' in thier endeavours. It is much more cost effective to develop and service the chimmney pots around your shop than anything else. What's more - as has been said elsewhere - by taking back local business you have far more impact on the order gatherers. It is easy to let them market on your behalf ... but if you do the math probably not as effective if you take into account lost repeat business.
As to why I think there are five options I think there is confusion over the term delivery box. Therefore if we take the UK as a role model this is what is happening at the moment
1: Shipping DIY flowers to other cities in a (big ugly) box
This is ONLY (and should only in my opinion) be done by mass marketeers like Interflora/Tesco (through their agents), Flying Flowers etc. It is similar to Profowers but not usually accompanied by a vase.
2: Delivering DIY flowers in a fancy box within a local city
We sell them as 'flat packs (ghastly name and more remisinsent of self assembly furniture). Went out of fashion when hand tieds came in ... now making a small resurgance. I like this concept as easy to do and think putting them in a gorgeous box is far nicer.
3, 4 and 5! Deliver hand-tied bouquets using a gift box as a means of packaging. Similar to what's being done in Europe
Three different permutations of this on a theme and why you need to think very hard about what you do.
1: UK florists deliver hand tieds to local addresses and deliver them in small transporter boxes/paper vases or just bubbles of water. They DO NOT use a big box as seen in the video.
2: Drop ship companies in the UK - like Arena who featured in the video - use a huge box to deliver hand tieds to any location in the UK ... even if it's hundreds of miles away.
3: An increasing number of UK florists are now sending thier OWN flowers in the same sort of courier boxes because
a: they make more money on the order (average delivery price £6)
b: The customer likes knowing that they can choose the flowers, write the card and that it is their preferred florist making the design.
c: It keeps the whole transaction local.
Hope that clarifies it more ... let me know
Carrington
mikec
New Member
This has been the most stimulating and progressive thread that I have read on FC. It gives us hope and direction in order to compete and survive. Thanks to everyone for sharing and sharing without rancor towards anyone else. Gotta go look at them boxes.
Mike
Mike
As far as I'm concerned,
Idea 1 - not feasible, because shipping cost would negate any saving we could offer to customers.
Idea 2 - that's something we are already doing. I think we should do more, though.
Idea 3 - that's the one I'm focusing now.
The difference between #2 and #3 is the target customers.
In #2, the person who orders is the person who receives. This channel would be primarily our answer to what supermarkets are doing.
Note that this #2 market is not necessarily a market of ProFlowers, although some PF customers might be ordering flowers to themselves.
In #3, the person who orders is not the person who receives. It's a gift flower.
It doesn't have to be hand-tied bouquets; it can be a pack of unarranged flowers like ProFlowers. It just has to be nicely gift-packed. This is the market that FTD's fancy box is trying to capture, as well as the existing market of ProFlowers (They don't own #2 market; supers own that one).
I'm imagining that #3 market consists of people who are ordering primarily for close friends, co-workers, and immediate family members - someone whom boxed flowers won't offend. They just want flowers with no unnecessary frill. This market is potentially huge, birthdays, anniversaries, get-well, etc, and don't forget VD and MD.
That's one reason, I think, why PF did so well in VD. They will do even better in MD, because mother is invariably easier to deal with than wifes, not to mention girlfriends.:grovel:
Idea 1 - not feasible, because shipping cost would negate any saving we could offer to customers.
Idea 2 - that's something we are already doing. I think we should do more, though.
Idea 3 - that's the one I'm focusing now.
The difference between #2 and #3 is the target customers.
In #2, the person who orders is the person who receives. This channel would be primarily our answer to what supermarkets are doing.
Note that this #2 market is not necessarily a market of ProFlowers, although some PF customers might be ordering flowers to themselves.
In #3, the person who orders is not the person who receives. It's a gift flower.
It doesn't have to be hand-tied bouquets; it can be a pack of unarranged flowers like ProFlowers. It just has to be nicely gift-packed. This is the market that FTD's fancy box is trying to capture, as well as the existing market of ProFlowers (They don't own #2 market; supers own that one).
I'm imagining that #3 market consists of people who are ordering primarily for close friends, co-workers, and immediate family members - someone whom boxed flowers won't offend. They just want flowers with no unnecessary frill. This market is potentially huge, birthdays, anniversaries, get-well, etc, and don't forget VD and MD.
That's one reason, I think, why PF did so well in VD. They will do even better in MD, because mother is invariably easier to deal with than wifes, not to mention girlfriends.:grovel:
master J
Well-Known Member
Im surprised the TF super bowl ad has not been mentioned in this thread, or maybe I missed it....
Does TF plan on continuing the anti flowers in a box campaign or have they given up on that already?
Does TF plan on continuing the anti flowers in a box campaign or have they given up on that already?
I don't know, but I hope they will give up.
TF framed the choice as between "boxed" versus "florist delivered." This could have a devastating consequence for us florists. Why? Because what they really meant by "florist delivered" is OG/WS orders.
Choice between direct-ship orders vs OG/WS orders is the accurate description of this choice.
We all know who is going to win: direct-ship hands down.
Unfortunately, because TF framed it as 'boxed' versus 'florists', we florists will suffer from the defeat. TF customers who are diappoined with "florist-delivered" (OG/WS) flowers will not use florists again.
CHERYL BAKIN
New Member
Not so fast, Goldie.
Boxed, florist delivered flowers can win.
We have been doing a little experiment since Monday night. It's on my home page. A loose wrapped buquet at 3 price levels. We have delivered 16 orders in the last 2 days that were loose wrapped, or boxed. None were roses. All called to see "what was available" or "what did this mean that they would get"?
We are currently working on a better description to got with a better picture.
All needed same day delivery. All needed "something" and did not want a "big something". $30.00 got them a nice bouquet. All were pleasantly surprised that their package would be wrapped in cello,(Gold stripped on clear cello) with a beautiful bow in the outside. Several actually saw the package as it was delivered, and called us to tell us how pleased they were.
There is a market for this ---- all were new customers who found our site. One was a referral from a business that we work with.
That's 16 orders that PF or FTD.com did not get.......in 2 days.
It may not be much --- but it's something.
Cheryl
Boxed, florist delivered flowers can win.
We have been doing a little experiment since Monday night. It's on my home page. A loose wrapped buquet at 3 price levels. We have delivered 16 orders in the last 2 days that were loose wrapped, or boxed. None were roses. All called to see "what was available" or "what did this mean that they would get"?
We are currently working on a better description to got with a better picture.
All needed same day delivery. All needed "something" and did not want a "big something". $30.00 got them a nice bouquet. All were pleasantly surprised that their package would be wrapped in cello,(Gold stripped on clear cello) with a beautiful bow in the outside. Several actually saw the package as it was delivered, and called us to tell us how pleased they were.
There is a market for this ---- all were new customers who found our site. One was a referral from a business that we work with.
That's 16 orders that PF or FTD.com did not get.......in 2 days.
It may not be much --- but it's something.
Cheryl
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