FTD.com changes

[CHR]

"100 blooms of peruvian lilies"
"200 blooms of peruvian lilies"
"30 assorted tulips"
"3 dozen purple carnations"
"50 blooms of garden spray roses"
"100 blooms of red garden spray roses"
"20 white iris"
"48 assorted petite roses"
"100 blooms of of assorted garden spray roses"

When it comes to stems of multiple florets, PF has been advertising "by the bloom count" for at least a few years, especially alstroes.

Yes, we could do the same:
40 blooms of lilies (for 10 stems)
200 blooms of delphinium (for 10 stems)
400 blooms of liatris (for 10 stems)
70 blooms of gladiolas (for 10 stems)
200 resplendent thorns (for 1 Dz Milvas)

Would we? Not me. We all know those numbers are perceived to be stem counts and not flowers by the majority of shoppers, so I would not risk their wrath.

They can afford to lose customers, we can't.

 

[goldfish]

This is why I stick to the fact.....whether JB, You, or anyone try to deny it......Our biggest, best, and most effective weapon we have against the OG's, Drop-shippers, dOG's and all the other industries that compete against us as florists is EDUCATION !!!!

It is through applying what we learn......that we can make our businesses more profitable, capture more sales, design more attractively, and ultimately - MEET EVERY ONE of our customer's needs and wants EFFECTIVELY and with class.

Ricky, what you said above (emphasis in bold) is rhetoric IMO. We need a specific, realistic solution - right now, or we die.

ProFlowers is selling 15 tulips for less than $30, while florists keep selling 10 tulips for $30 or even more. Here, consumers are given a choice between a) 5 more tulips or b) professional arrangement.

A lot of people are choosing option a). Lots of lots of them.

In the past, florists didn't have this kind of competition. Every florist was happy to charge $30 for 10 tulips. Consumers had no choice, so they opted for the one with better design or service.

People like you or Cathy had a definite advantage in this ball game.

Now a new ball-player comes in. They are not offering better design. They are not, in case for ProFlowers and many supermarkets except for Sandy's, offering better services, either.

They are offering more tulips instead.

It's a different kind of ball game. And they are winning. In my mental set, we are behind 5-to-nothing, bottom of the 7th. Not much time left.

 

[CHERYL BAKIN]

You all need to do a little research on how PF got started.

Remember -- they were the guys from BlockBuster Video.
Rumor has it that one or more of them got mad at the FTD, florist delivered stuff that they were getting.....high priced, and not good product. Something about the florist not being able to guarantee a certain delivery seems to stick out in my mind.

They started investigating our industry.

They discovered a very fractionalized industry -- one that was RIPE for a uniform top-down managment style, with standards, buying power, controlled shipping costs, etc. (This all started about the time that FTD was still member owned & was in the process of being sold, etc.) Lots of angxt going around......and the likes of what the "Bob's did to first allow the FTD Association to be set up, and then set out to destroy it, did not help at all.

What PF found was that:
1. PF could control product cost by negotiating & buying up whole farms of costs.
2. PF could control assembly & prodcution costs by shipping from a few locations that were centrally located.
3. PF could control shipping costs by negotiating with Fedex, DHL & UPS for rock bottom shipping rates.
4. PF could gain extra $$ from the consumer for shipping costs, if someone ABSOLUTELY, POSITIVELY HAD TO HAVE IT BY A CERTAIN TIME.
5. PF could market the H**L out of their new found "commodity", advertising it at a lower price than most regular florists in the country.
6. PF became very internet sauvvy quickly -- and saw that most regular florists were not, and FTD/TF/1800 was only beginning to test those waters.
7. PF could do a better job of customer service than a regular flower shop, or one connected across the country via FTD or TF. (the original order that went "bad" was supposedly sent over the FTD network.

And PF test marketed their ideas......saw that it worked, and the race was on. PF has never looked back.

This company was born because a few individuals, at a very high level, were disenchanted with the way they had been treated as customers, and wanted something better --- fresh flowers, delivered when they wanted, and what they wanted. They guessed, and rightfully so, that most younger consumers, might feel the same way.


Now, how did I come to give you this brief synopsis? It's a business school case study.
---------------------------------------------------
What can we learn from this????
1. Marketing is EVERYTHING. YOu can make the best banana peeler, with the highest level of design in the world. If you cannot market it, you will not sell it, & you will be broke.

2. The days of each town having 5 flower shops to service a population of 10,000 people are long gone. You need much larger economies of scale to survive today.

3. The younger generation (under age 40 or so) does not hold the same long-term loyality to stores that their parents & grandparents did. They buy where it is convenient, and where they get the best value for their $$. (Figuring the value out is the tough part).

4. The "Me" generation does not want to be told that they cannot have it today --- or be educated that their choice is dumb, or out of season. If they see a picture, it should be available (in their mind).
They want what they want --- and will walk if they con't get it.

5. Convenience is the biggest factor driving sales, after $$.
The younger generation shops on the internet at 1 am or 2 am. For too long, too many florists have ignored this very basic concept.
And have made it highly inconvenient to retain them as customers.

6. They are willing to pay for convenience, if they have to.
(extra delivery fee, fee for guaranteed before 10 am delivery, etc). But, it better be there.....or you better be prepared to give back lots of $$.

7. They do not see much intrinsic value in designed flowers.
Everyone talks about the cubes and low bunched vase arrangements and states that the arrangements have been "dumbed down" so that they can be produced by less experienced designers. While that is true, more importantly -- focus groups have shown that the cubes and low bunches of flowers are more acceptable to the consumer!!
(Again, thank you Martha Stewart for bring flowers into the homes of so many!!).
In short -- mostly they want the FLOWERS!!!!


-----------------------------------------------------
The above was the shortened version of the conclusions of a graduate business school class that examined the PF business startup & company. They had no knowledge prior to the exercise of the flower industry. TThey examined, and studied, and concluded.

-------------------------------------------------------------

As we all chew & bounce ideas off each other, we need to research quickly what has happened in the real recent past (last 10 to 15 years), and take a page from the playbook, and learn from it!!

Things have happened for a reason (or many reasons).

Happy Day everyone.....gotta go make the flowers!

Regards,
Cheryl

 

[LJVF]

Great post Cheryl.

A couple other thoughts. Many of us are blaming our recent struggles on the economy, and feel that if we can just get through this, we'll be ok. Maybe, maybe not. Frankly, the retail florist has been riding a downward trend even prior to this recession. I believe that this recession has only accelerated the inevitable, our loss has been ProFlowers gain. Consumers are now forced to look for perceived better deals and are giving ProFlowers a shot. We may never get these customers back.

I'm hearing that this crappy economy may not bottom out for another year. If this comes to fruition, this latest "shift" may be too much for many of us to overcome.

We florists have come to fork in the road with 2 major paths available. High-end or competitive pricing.

The high end florist will always have a market. Those that have already established themselves and have a stellar reputation and good management will continue on a successful path. Those that are just getting into it, will need some capital to carry them through.

I believe many of the rest of us must change our way of thinking when it comes to pricing and the type of product we offer. There is no reason we can't offer the "dumb downed" version bouquets at lower prices, but not necessarily at rock bottom prices. And then couple this with excellent the customer service that only a B&M can offer. My definition of "dumb downed" doesn't mean a piece of junk either. I'm talking labor and price efficient bouquets that look "pretty". Arranging 10 different flowers in a vase isn't efficient labor or pricing wise. Now if you go with a large bouquet of only one or two types flowers neatly "dropped" in a vase, it can look striking to the layman's eye and efficiently built by the florist.

 

[LJVF]

I just found something really cool that duanermb posted on another thread. This could be a nice spin on boxed flowers, look at the end result, it's in a box. The narrator mentions that every bouquet is based off a template. Templates are the key here IMO, as JB pointed out a tip by RC earlier in this thread, have an "architect" create the design then have an "assembler" assemble them.

[youtube]aesJETpSwBE[/youtube]

 

[bloomz]

7. They do not see much intrinsic value in designed flowers.
Everyone talks about the cubes and low bunched vase arrangements and states that the arrangements have been "dumbed down" so that they can be produced by less experienced designers. While that is true, more importantly -- focus groups have shown that the cubes and low bunches of flowers are more acceptable to the consumer!!
(Again, thank you Martha Stewart for bring flowers into the homes of so many!!).
In short -- mostly they want the FLOWERS!!!!

Regards,
Cheryl

Most excellent info Cheryl.

I've been selling flowers on the internet for way longer than most (we had a site before ftd did)

I've never ever had a better seller than that dumbed down cube arrangement that I'm sure even I could make. (haven't tried)

This "defense of design" is, I think about job securiy, but with PF getting 53% of VD sales (compared to the other gorillas, which INCLUDE 800 and FTD selling boxed flowers along with the designed flowers), well....

I'm a shop owner, and you can't convince me that the facts are wrong.

The value of designed flowers is waning. There are less and less people wanting (paying for) them these days, and it looks like that trend is going to continue.

And this is why I am always trying to point out that it is not the solution to survival.

This latest move seems be be about packaging. (They seem to already have the convenience price value and service down)

When I left SAF after seeing Bachmans I wondered if I could get a design/graphic arts student at our University here to do a branding/packaging project for us. (I tried last nite to find an example of their signature bouquet wrapping to no avail - anyone got one?)

Has anyone done that?

One more mention of design shows...one of the two biggest florists in the US once said to me when I asked if he sent his people to design shows "No, they're teaching the standards of a dying industry and I don't want them to learn that stuff."

I respect your choice and defense of design education, Rickie, but I think the ducks are flying right past you while you're focusing on the pretty flamingos. Education is fine, but it needs to have relevance in todays market.

If a shop is already "design challenged" - they need to move over, cuz IMO you have no business running a flower shop if you can't make a pretty design. And I think most of us know - you either have that or you don't. Talented floral designers/arrangers/employees come to the table with a knack for it. We've seen several that just flat didn't, try as we might, and they remain solely sales/delivery/customer service people.

HEY!!!!!

Maybe we need to have a design show on high end packaging? (Light bulb idea there)

Half of our business has eroded to boxed flowers.

Progressive florists have no choice but to try to figure out how to shoot and cook ducks.

I remember Gfloral once raving to me about how his Ipod was wrapped when he got it and he said the packaging was the most exciting part about it - he said unwrapping it was the biggest part of the treat.

I know who's gonna order a box this week - I gotta see first hand what we're up against.

I did it a year or two ago and took pictures of how it compared to what was advertised - bunched stems in lackluster packaging. My intent was to show the deception of their advertising like some of us here have blogged about. Teleflora has a great one here

This is a whole new animal now that they are readily disclosing that the flowers come in a box.

Time to grow or die, and I totally admit to being perplexed.

This is brainstorming out loud for me. Thanks for listening.

 

[CHR]

Al the back and forth about boxes, prices and marketing comes down to what the MSNBC V Day article said so well.

In the end, the prices at all three sites are quite similar. Yet consumers shopping for flowers must jump through near-impossible hoops to actually comparison shop. (Only a reporter with too much time on his hands is likely to do it.) That means many consumers won't make rational economic decisions based on quality or price, but rather will choose based on which company’s advertisements are most compelling -- or, some might say, deceptive. In the end, it's almost certain that the most up-front company, 1800Flowers, will lose sales because consumers think they are getting a better price from a competitor when they really aren't.

Some might argue this is simply capitalism at work. In fact, the opposite is true. If this were a free market, all information about the transaction would be transparent, and the best product with the best price would win. Instead, the most convincing advertiser wins. Ultimately, this economic system -- which is not capitalism -- will put honest companies out of business and reward deceivers.

We have two choices.

Co-opt the deceptive tactics:

- show pictures or arrangements without discplosing they're DIYs
- low ball retail prices and then hit the shopper with huge delivery & service charges after they've provided their CC info
- Promise "50% off" or "free delivery" but only reveal the details after the consumer has given us their credit card number - and then hit them with a mostly hidden recurring fee that costs far more than the discount.
- Mark everything up $10 and then advertise $10 off.
- Advertise 'free delivery' but just pad the fee into the flowers price.

or work to get them changed.

None of these are truthful tactics and all violate either BBB regulations or FTC guidlines.

It ain't about the box. It's about the marketing promises that put honest local florists at a disadvantage when we market truthfully.

 

[Eric S]

Great Video.

Except for one thing.

When she put the bag of water on there she never recut the stems.

I find it hard to believe that the flowers would last long enough unless the recipient would recut them before putting them in the vase.

There is also something still going on here. You can call it assembly or templete design but it still needs to be arranged or designed.

I can even create a beautful bouquet just like this but the customer will still want this in a vase.

I have been doing some research on the proflowers thing and wanted to share some info that may spark some more descussion.

February 14 1998
Proflowers Deliveres Flowers For The First Time

January 18th 2002
Same Day Delivery Was Started By Florist Express through Teleflora.

May 28 2003
Proflowers processed 396,452 orders over the week leading up to Mother`s Day and shipped 1.7 million rose stems and 1.4 million tulips.

October 12 2004 3 Million Customers Reached.

2004 129,000,000 In Sales

May 15th 2005 Still at 3 Million Customers

May 18Th 2005 4 Million. Million Customers
(Who Do You Think Helped Them Break This Mark)

December 2005 Provide Commerce Is Bought By Liberty

May 11 2006 Still at 4 million Customers

4 Million Customers From 1998 Until 2006

Annual sales reported as of 2008 put it at 300 Million.


So lets think about something.

How many customers do you have that call you two or three days ahead of time to place there order?

How many of your customers call the day before or even the day of to place there order?

I look at proflowers like this. They started up a great idea but relized in 2002 that they wanted still grap some of those same day delivery sales.

I think the only reason that Proflowers has continued is not because of the boxed flowers but on the backs of you lovely fillers.

 

[goldfish]

I'm hearing that this crappy economy may not bottom out for another year. If this comes to fruition, this latest "shift" may be too much for many of us to overcome.

Yup. A lot of us will die. I'm not counting myself out either. We just don't have large enough pie to feed all of us. We must increase the size of pie, or we die by starvation. It's that simple.

We florists have come to fork in the road with 2 major paths available. High-end or competitive pricing.

The third option is a hobby shop, the shop that doesn't have to make money. If a florist's spouse is paying all the personal bills (mortgage, food, kids' expenses, etc), all this florist has to do is to break even. That's not that difficult. But that's a hobby.

There will be a lot of hobby shops in the future, competing against "for-profit" florists.

I just found something really cool that duanermb posted on another thread.

I've seen that. I've seen the future in that video.

I also noticed that Arenaflowers sells unarranged flowers at rock-bottom prices. I've seen 50 roses sold for 40 UK pounds or something ($60 US dollars).

 

[RWK]

Let me ask a simple question.....What sells the best from your own shops? Not Proflowers shops,farms, website, Not FTD or Teleflora.com sites, - but out of YOUR own stores and your own websites?

At the small shop where I freelanced and did the sympathy work this past weekend, their best seller this week was 1 bunch of tulips in a slender vase.

So, quite simply, What is YOUR best seller?



Why am I asking?

Simple - WE can look at our POS systems, read our reports, and our computers, books, invoices, orders will tell us what sells best for us......Perhaps we can focus more on what already sells and then bring in items that can compete on the levels of FTD or proflowers.

 

[RWK]

Taking this thread back to it's original direction......the changes on the FTD site seem to be more indicative of what things really are.

You Goldie, and I ARE in agreement that loose or boxed flowers are a part of our industry and our business that need to be explored. JB and I are in agreement that recipe'ed, standardized arrangements do sell well.

(Why he refers to them as "cookie cutters" is beyond me....and I doubt if he even knows why......when any arrangement or design can be a cookie cutter if you have to make enough of them)

Now, the question is......How do WE as INDEPENDENT BUSINESS PEOPLE take the ideas and IMPROVE on them?

Forget about trying to match what they already do......We go around in circles because they are already successful in what they do........so, How do WE take what they do and do it better?

 

[Eric S]

Forget about trying to match what they already do......We go around in circles because they are already successful in what they do........so, How do WE take what they do and do it better?

Its simply really.

Just lower the price on all designed flowers in a vase.

It really is the answer to the this whole thread.

 

[bloomz]

or work to get them changed.

None of these are truthful tactics and all violate either BBB regulations or FTC guidlines.

It ain't about the box. It's about the marketing promises that put honest local florists at a disadvantage when we market truthfully.

Pick your battles...fruitless ones I've done before (remember some Bozo created the first OG list? We wuz gonna stop them!)

We "fought" Tom Meola for 15 years only to finally have him crash and burn then be replaced in 5 minutes by another one, or two, or 5 like bestflowers and florist concierge, etc.

I don't think "we" have 15 more years...:hammer: I know I don't.

My life's too short to fruitlessly fight demons - you're way younger than me. Job 1 is figuring out how to continue supporting my family today and next month and year.

I wish you well :hug: but won't be holding my breath.....

Figuring out how to compete and shift paradigms (good word D) is a completely different task than trying to stop a freight train (them).

rock on

 

[duanermb]

Pick your battles...fruitless ones I've done before (remember some Bozo created the first OG list? We wuz gonna stop them!)

We "fought" Tom Meola for 15 years only to finally have him crash and burn then be replaced in 5 minutes by another one, or two, or 5 like bestflowers and florist concierge, etc.

I don't think "we" have 15 more years...:hammer: I know I don't.

My life's too short to fruitlessly fight demons - you're way younger than me. Job 1 is figuring out how to continue supporting my family today and next month and year.

I wish you well :hug: but won't be holding my breath.....

Figuring out how to compete and shift paradigms (good word D) is a completely different task than trying to stop a freight train (them).

rock on

You make some great points bloomz, but maybe it's time to pass the torch, because some of us DO have 15 years to work on this!

Al the back and forth about boxes, prices and marketing comes down to what the MSNBC V Day article said so well.
We have two choices.

Co-opt the deceptive tactics:

- show pictures or arrangements without discplosing they're DIYs
- low ball retail prices and then hit the shopper with huge delivery & service charges after they've provided their CC info
- Promise "50% off" or "free delivery" but only reveal the details after the consumer has given us their credit card number - and then hit them with a mostly hidden recurring fee that costs far more than the discount.
- Mark everything up $10 and then advertise $10 off.
- Advertise 'free delivery' but just pad the fee into the flowers price.

or work to get them changed.

None of these are truthful tactics and all violate either BBB regulations or FTC guidlines.

It ain't about the box. It's about the marketing promises that put honest local florists at a disadvantage when we market truthfully.

I agree completely with you on this one Cathy. We have seen dozens of blogs and articles since VD stating this very problem.

Goldie - This discussion is exactly why I am so glad I joined FlowerChat. In the midst of this discussion.....We are all being educated.

This is why I stick to the fact.....whether JB, You, or anyone try to deny it......Our biggest, best, and most effective weapon we have against the OG's, Drop-shippers, dOG's and all the other industries that compete against us as florists is EDUCATION !!!!

It is through applying what we learn......that we can make our businesses more profitable, capture more sales, design more attractively, and ultimately - MEET EVERY ONE of our customer's needs and wants EFFECTIVELY and with class.

I agree that education is the key. I submit though, that we are focusing on the wrong entities for that education.

Its the authorities that need to know what is happening here. We have more than enough issues to get on the radar. One good issue will drag the others along with it. Start with your local authorities or State/Province and go from there. Up here at least, they are currently clueless about it all. (Or, at least they WERE in Manitoba )

The market overall is just too big, if the associations we rely on won't help.

Aside and Relevant: Canadian florists, I have created a group to discuss these very initiatives within Flowerchat. Just PM me if you want in.

 

[RWK]

Let me continue this thread by asking a provacative question?

What methods does Proflowers, FTD.com, Teleflora.com, OG's, d'OG's all do extremely well that we do not.

The answer is not "Generate hundreds of thousands of sales" - THAT IS THE END RESULT.
WHAT do they do that makes that end result possible?

---------------------------------------------------------------

Now, Once you identify the methods they use to generate that END RESULT.....How can we IMPROVE on those methods to bring that END RESULT to us?

 

[goldfish]

Forget about trying to match what they already do......We go around in circles because they are already successful in what they do........so, How do WE take what they do and do it better?

Just lower the price on all designed flowers in a vase.

... and do it profitably.

Bottom line is we must increase the size of our pie (market). No other option to survive.

Re-capture what we've lost over the years.

• Cash & Carry sales (lost to supermarkets)
• Plant sales (lost to supermarkets, Home Depot)

are the two main areas. To re-capture these markets, lowering prices is necessary. There is just no way around it.

On top of that, we have to differentiate our products from their products, and do so without increasing the prices.

For example, most supermarkets don't carry high-end flowers (orchids, mini-callas, etc) for cash & carry. We could sell those flowers for cash & carry at low prices.

Don't avoid emerging markets.

Such as,

• DIY brides
• Unarranged DIY flowers (already being lost to ProFlowers)

Carefully approach these markets, because one wrong move might cannibalize our existing sales. For example, you don't want to cater to DIY brides, only to cause the drop of "regular" wedding sales.

In many cases, however, DIY crowds are distinct from our more traditional customers with little overlap.

Thoughts on bashing our competitors.

Any unethical behavior of our competitors should be criticized and fought against... to a degree.

On the other hand, it only hurts you if you are caught up with it.

You really don't want to spend your life by squashing flies. Sometimes, you just let them fly all over you, if you have more important things to do.

Finally, while some of our competitors' customers are victims of deceptive marketing, many are not. These two groups of consumers should not be lumped together.

If we focus our entire energy on criticizing our competitors' marketing, we are not addressing the core problem: many consumers are leaving us, because they don't like what we do.

It could be our high prices, could be our short store hours, could be the lack of convenient website, could be anything that we don't do well. Fixing those, to me, is much much more important than squashing flies.

 

[goldfish]

What methods does Proflowers, FTD.com, Teleflora.com, OG's, d'OG's all do extremely well that we do not.

It depends on each company, I think. I don't think there is any common "method" among these entities you are referring to.

Companies, large or small, do have common problems though. They resist changes, especially when the change requires philosophical changes.

Companies are run by humans. We don't like the kind of change that forces us to discard whatever we've built up over the years and start from scratch.

But florists are at that kind of stage right now. Change necessitates abandoning certain virtues you might feel emotionally attached to. Say good-bye and move on - that's the change. So it's very hard.

 

[sandytf]

... and do it profitably.

Bottom line is we must increase the size of our pie (market). No other option to survive.

Re-capture what we've lost over the years.

• Cash & Carry sales (lost to supermarkets)
• Plant sales (lost to supermarkets, Home Depot)

I agree with most of what you say except the traditional florist didn't lose Cash and Carry sales- in my opinion they never had them in the first place.

I see it another way. Another segment of the market saw the need to supply something to the consumer that wasn't being supplied by the traditional retail florist-and they did. And the customer responded. Much like the example with the history of ProFlowers.

I say this because think everyone should also be thinking about new ways to get more market share rather than just playing follow the leader and catch up.

 

[sandytf]

I wonder why it's called "quick reply"? Mine are never quick!

 

[Eric S]

It looks to me that the big guys also do a great job doing

Radio.

If you look at Proflowers website from the past they have always stuck by promoting by using radio ads.

It will always be easier for them to promote flowers versus flowers and city name.

Getting your name out into the eyes of the consumer will require great graphics on your cars and good amount of networking.

Hey I just recieved my first order from Facebook today.