FTD.com changes

[goldfish]

Great thread everyone! Just a few points not mentioend so far...

Labor involved in making boxed flowers.

Yes, it can be as labor intensive as making arrangements. But we don't need floral designers to do boxed flowers. So the labor in dollar amount will be low.

Examples of boxed flowers

If we (I mean, traditional florist shops) are to promote boxed flowers as gift flowers, probably the most promising is to offer monoflorals: roses, tulips, lilies, irises, etc. Choose hardy, fool-proof varieties.

This way, at least they won't directly compete with mixed arrangements. Also, it minimizes preparation and labor. I've heard that PF customers like the fact that they are receiving unopend flowers. Great.

It really boils down to this question, what is it that is attracting more and more consumers to this shift in flower buying?

Devaluation of the craftsmanship involved in regular flower designs. Extra efforts florists put into a nice arrangement has little perceived value. So they all look over-priced.

At the deeper level, the labor involved in making flower designs has a low prestige, realtive to, say, doctor's labor or lawyer's labor. That's how the society teaches kids to think, so they look down on (de-value) manual labors.

It's not going to change, unless some florist runs for the President of the US and increase the salary of every florist by 1000%. Now, that will change eveything.

 

[CHR]

Devaluation of the craftsmanship involved in regular flower designs. Extra efforts florists put into a nice arrangement has little perceived value. So they all look over-priced.

At the deeper level, the labor involved in making flower designs has a low prestige, realtive to, say, doctor's labor or lawyer's labor. That's how the society teaches kids to think, so they look down on (de-value) manual labors.

I disagree entirely and see the problem more that poor designers are recreating WS pictures, doing really bad jobs, and leaving shops open to saying their work looks like 'supermarket flowers.'

You can't promote artisan work and charge premium prices if you don't deliver the goods - the wow! Florists can't ever earn doctor's or lawyer's labor wages because most do not invest in education, do not truly know the best practices of their craft (from care & handling to design techniques) and do not have the experience level to command respectable wages.

I'll get down off my soapbox now....

 

[RWK]

Thank you Cathy for saying that.......Just as there is a huge difference between the educated consumer and the uneducated consumer, so to is there a huge difference between the educated florist and the uneducated florist.

Look at the sympathy design thread I opened up.......The level of artistry and knowing how to execute the mechanics says a lot about education. I daresay that a uneducated wire service monkey could not execute the designs I show......or if they even tried, it would be done and crafted poorly.

 

[bloomz]

Sorry but this has nothing to do with wire service designs. Crappy florists make crappy bouquets and you sure can't blame that one on cookie cutters...

or you can if you like, but.....if they could copy the cookie cutters they would be way better off.

I think a lot of the resistance here is we want to be appreciated as artists but unarranged flowers are taking away our sales.

So that kinda sorta definitely says what the public think about our artistry. They're voting extremely strongly with heir $$$. The theory that they'll get burned and stop buying from PF isn't panning out either.

I think the public has no idea that it actually takes skill to make a vase arrangement.

We have to position ourselves in the path of where the ducks are flying, or die.

They're not going to stop - this is a growing market. Maybe it's a gen x/y thing, but it's here.

So guess what???

It's the flowers, silly.

Nice packaging may soon become more important than artistic design.

This new look is visible now on our new website at FTD.com and on our new floral packaging for those orders shipped directly to consumers by common carrier. In fact, the new packaging debuted in December of 2008 and was awarded the American package design award by Graphic Design USA.

 

[CHERYL BAKIN]

The debate over DESIGN vs. LOWLY DESIGN has gone on for a long, long time. While I agree with you Cathy, and Rick, I don't think that that is the point here.

People are choosing with their pocketbooks. Florist designed flowers are Perceived by the consumer as HIGH Priced.

"They could get the same thing at the supermarket".

We all used to sell HUGE amounts of blooming plants, for instance for Easter, and we gave that up to Kmart, Lowes, Walmart, Graocery stores, etc. Easter corsages are another one.....we gave that one up because of the same MASS MARKETERS, and also because the way people treat Easter as a holiday meant that a corsage was no longer the most important thing.

(22 years ago, Easter, we made over 300 cymb corsage. In 2008, we made zero!!)

Are we going to keep giving up flower sales also???

I, for one, want to sell flowers (I said that already!)

I will sell them arranged, unarranged, in a box, in cello, in tissue paper, or in a hand-tied bouquet to be delivered in a blumbox!
We cello wrap all of our arrangements (we belong to a delivery pool - everything is wrapped), so presentation is not an issue.
The point is that I am selling flowers.........FLOWERS ARE THE GIFT HERE!

Yes, people want it to look nice....but they don't necessarily want EXPENSIVE NICE. So, teach those enttry level helpers to do basic handtied and loose wrapped bouquets. Figure out how to deliver the stuff from your store .....and let's sell go some flowers!!

And, since the product will be turning faster, the markups don't need to be quite so high, and the labor charge does not need to be so high.
All of this means that the consumer is more willing to stop and make a purchase......and when they need an FLORIST DESIGNED ARRANGEMENT, they will return, because you have good stuff!!
(The last is a quote from a recent Friday C & C customer, who needed funeral flowers for his Mom. He came back to us because he was pleased with his Friday C & C purchase).

Remember, you will be working with volume of product ...

Buy more wisely. Ask your wholesaler what's on sale this week?
what is he trying to move? And make that your loose wrapped, out the door item -- cash and carry, if you will.
(Transflora has wonderful assorted bouquets that were just emailed to me this week. Could be a loose wrapped or a chop & drop in an inexpensive vase with high quality flowers.....or used in addition to other flowers easily.) June.com or Mayesh or others also have this. However, you are buying by the BOX -- you cannot just take 2 or 3, unless you ar splitting with a couple of shops.

For instance, We have been getting tulips at a very good price. We are moving at least 25 bunches /week right now, if not more. Daffodils get added to the mix this week....really good price on field daffs.

We got a really great price on mini gerbs and spray roses last week. We passed our savings on to the consumer, and moved all of the product quickly, with very little labor involved.

And yes, in case anyone is interested, we DID deliver the tulips, boxed, and we have delivered the gerbers also boxed. They were been fine.

And why did we do this this way? BECAUSE THAT WAS WHAT THE CUSTOMER WANTED, AND WAS WILLING TO PAY FOR US TO DO.
(and there was no quibbling about the cost of delivery either!)

Now, we are not anywhere near RC's volume.....however, I am willing to mark things up a little less to be able to move the product out the door, and keep the consumer coming back. We re trying to give them a reason to shop with us and instead of PF/FTD/TF. . And new boxed flowers are part of that mix.

Just my rambling thoughts......
I'm looking for a couple of catelogues for boxes right now.

Cheryl

 

[RWK]

MY WHOLE POINT JB WAS NOT about wire-service versus non-wire service designs. It was all about the education and qualification level of florists.

A properly educated, trained, qualified florist would have no trouble executing the Teleflora.com arrangement attached to this posting for example.........or knowing HOW to place flowers in a box so that the lilies aren't bruised, or the tulips mushed, or the spider pompons shedding, etc..........however, the uneducated, untrained, florist would struggle with the arrangement and would just place the flowers in the box without forethought and care in making sure the flowers travel and look their best for the customer.



Look at the difference YOU YOURSELF espouse between your level of skill and Twila's level of skill. You being the uneducated, untrained florist versus Twila's expertise, skill, and level of education......Which of you could more easily duplicate this design......or arrange flowers in a box so that the flowers would look their best upon arrival to the customer?

I am sorry, but no amount of wire-service and non-wire service, cookie cutters, or even pre-made bunched bouquets will ever convince me that proper EDUCATION does not play a vital role in our shops today.

[EDIT] - It's not even about lowly design versus high-level design........it is all about the education level needed to properly, expertly, and the qualifications needed to execute everything from flowers in a box to a roundy-moundy, to a high-style tropical, to a artistic floral scupture taking center stage at AIFD.

 

[Eric S]

I feel that if your going to compete against the direct shipment market then you might as well just lower your prices on your arrangements. Isn't that what randy is doing?

Why follow the dog and happily wag your tail to box flowers and where is the logic that it would be easier to pull 12 roses zip tie them in place inside the box just make a few bucks.

And to offer FTD logo boxes that is just suicide. You might as well just send your customers to FTD.com

I vote no on playing around with card board boxes! Besides the supermarkets have done us in. They are the ones that took our fresh cut flower business. We just need to start selling milk and eggs to compete with them.

 

[LJVF]

There will always be a market for artistically created designs. Events, weddings, corporate lobby displays, etc... My corporate accounts would go ballistic if we tried to pass on a ProFlowers thrown together display in their lobby. Trust me, we tried it and heard about it. I made the mistake of thinking that's what they wanted, let me tell you we won't make that mistake again. Whether it's monofloral or not, this niche wants something creative.

However, there is an existing and growing demographic that just want flowers. They just want flowers to look and smell and make them smile. They don't want to pay $100 for a few of stems twisted in a fancy vase (seriously, that's the way a lot of them look at it). We florists cannot ignore this and should not try and force our art designs on them. I truly believe this niche has always been there, there just weren't many options for them. ProFlowers were smart to forsee this and they jumped on it. Sure there are going to be people that feel they were burned and deceived, complaints will occur due to the shear volume alone.

But the numbers don't lie, "our" slice of the pie is shrinking.

 

[LJVF]

I feel that if your going to compete against the direct shipment market then you might as well just lower your prices on your arrangements. Isn't that what randy is doing?

Eric, this is what I've been trying to convey through out this whole thread, I really do think this is the way to go. We need to take a seriously look at our pricing.

Added:

I have an experiment going with my website: http://www.lajollavillageflorist.com, some may frown on this. I took 9 items, displayed them prominently on my home page and slashed the price. This is a small page out of Randy's book. I can better control COGS in anticipation of higher volume and controlled delivery radius. It's only been a short period since I began this, so it's too soon to confirm any accurate results, but so far it's working. My volume has jumped considerably.

 

[Eric S]

Exactly. If we want to compete we just need to lower prices.

It just means that the days of marking up flowers are long gone and if we want to survive then we need to take them out where it hurts.

 

[goldfish]

I disagree entirely and see the problem more that poor designers are recreating WS pictures, doing really bad jobs, and leaving shops open to saying their work looks like 'supermarket flowers.'

Has any of your customers said your flowers are "too expensive"? Or more to the point, is that kind of comment increasing or decreasing?

If you are correct, very, very few would even think that your shop is expensive. I'm not convinced that's the case. In fact, I believe that a lot of average consumers, kind of folks who click on FTD/PF sites, avoided your shop because it looks "too expensive."

My point is simply that even a shop of your caliver wouldn't be immune to "Oh your guys are too expensive" comments. They don't see much value in design. They have voted, overwhelming, with their $$$.

I see no difference between $100 wine and $10 wine. $10 cheap wine works just fine for me. Can anyone prove me wrong? That's not possible. That's the point. I'm not saying $100 wine is worthless. I'm just saying, for me, $10 wine works just fine.

Many flower consumers are just like that. We can't do much about it.

 

[goldfish]

Look at the sympathy design thread I opened up.......The level of artistry and knowing how to execute the mechanics says a lot about education. I daresay that a uneducated wire service monkey could not execute the designs I show......or if they even tried, it would be done and crafted poorly.

OK, remember we are retailers before artists.

So here's my hypothetical challenge to you (or any other artistic florists).

Put a picture of your maserpeice priced at $50, next to a picture of $50 ProFlower's junk. See which one will get more clicks.

You won't like the results.

 

[bloomz]

MY WHOLE POINT JB WAS NOT about wire-service versus non-wire service designs. It was all about the education and qualification level of florists.

I am sorry, but no amount of wire-service and non-wire service, cookie cutters, or even pre-made bunched bouquets will ever convince me that proper EDUCATION does not play a vital role in our shops today.

[EDIT] - It's not even about lowly design versus high-level design........it is all about the education level needed to properly, expertly, and the qualifications needed to execute everything from flowers in a box to a roundy-moundy, to a high-style tropical, to a artistic floral scupture taking center stage at AIFD.

Rickie - the whole point is the point isn't about design - has next to nothing to do with design - look at their sales - it's about the flowers, silly.

RC taught me a new word this week that I like and I know some of you are gonna hate.

Floral assemblers.

So there are:

Floral designers (architects, if you will)

Floral arrangers (contractors, if you will)

and

Floral Assemblers. (factory workers like PF and FTD uses)

Making these kind of sales has nothing to do with design and everything to do with packaging and assembling.

There will always be some place for Artistic Floral Designers, but their pie is shrinking rapidly, as I see it. Education and qualifications aren't paying the rent for many flower shops, unless you're talking about business/marketing education.

Flowers are.

Flowers are becoming more and more of a commodity every stinking day, darn it.

Again - I don't have to like it but I do have to accept it.

This has been a good brainstorming exercise.

I see blumeboxes has a "create your own section" - maybe that's a possibility.

Bachmans showed their branded packaging at SAF and it is a total and true contender.

opinions vary - I want on this train before it leaves the station and leaves me behind.

PS Eric's right - I think one needs their head examined to send their stuff out in a branded ftd.com box.

 

[CHR]

Has any of your customers said your flowers are "too expensive"? Or more to the point, is that kind of comment increasing or decreasing?

In this economy, most everyone thinks everything is expensive. But no, I'm not hearing it more than I ever have.

The supermarket across the street from us is selling 1 Dz 50 cm roses for $6.99. I can't and won't match that so we will lose those sales to the market.

Costco is offering bunches of 25 roses for $13.99. Again, I can not and will not match that price.

My job is to find things they don't carry and/or offer things they do carry and do them noticeably better - remarkably better.

If you (or any other shopper) doesn't see the difference, then you will shop by price. My job is to make sure our products get in front of the eyes of those who do see the difference. Different market, different approach.

I'm in no position to compete with the CostCos or Wal-Marts on price (and neither is most anyone else here.) Most of have to have a unique selling position based on product, service, etc... or we are sunk.

 

[CHR]

Put a picture of your maserpeice priced at $50, next to a picture of $50 ProFlower's junk. See which one will get more clicks.

Let's make it fair.

Put a picture of a professional design next to a picture of what the PF flowers really look like when they're delivered and we'll see who gets more clicks.

We're only getting killed because they market better and have had their marketing methods left unchallenged - not because they deliver a better product dollar for dollar.

Now, if you compare what's sold dollar for dollar through TF of FTD for $50, the florist arrangement will likely lose because too many hands are in the till and too many fees are taken out.

But a $50 locally made, 100%-to-the-delivering-shop design vs a $50 PF bunch straight out of the box - I'll take that bet.

 

[LJVF]

In this economy, most everyone thinks everything is expensive. But no, I'm not hearing it more than I ever have.

The supermarket across the street from us is selling 1 Dz 50 cm roses for $6.99. I can't and won't match that so we will lose those sales to the market.

Costco is offering bunches of 25 roses for $13.99. Again, I can not and will not match that price.

My job is to find things they don't carry and/or offer things they do carry and do them noticeably better - remarkably better.

If you (or any other shopper) doesn't see the difference, then you will shop by price. My job is to make sure our products get in front of the eyes of those who do see the difference. Different market, different approach.

I'm in no position to compete with the CostCos or Wal-Marts on price (and neither is most anyone else here.) Most of have to have a unique selling position based on product, service, etc... or we are sunk.

Cathy, you bring up some excellent points. I think you are in a different boat than most of us. You've built an incredible reputation over the years and perhaps if more of us followed your path back then and a little luck, we wouldn't be in the position we're in now.

But I think most of us are either wading or struggling and just looking for answers.

 

[bloomz]

But a $50 locally made, 100%-to-the-delivering-shop design vs a $50 PF bunch straight out of the box - I'll take that bet.

Depends on the delivering shop and I wouldn't put money on about 80% of them.

I fear senders see more value in lots of flowers vs fewer flowers artistically designed.

But you'll never "make that fair" cuz those pre-arranged pictures are what's selling, and they obviously aren't gonna stop that, even if they do show you the box its gonna come in. So that point is moot

Back to Goldie's thin Victoria's Secret model. I think I'd put my money on them vs anyone dressed up in the same garb.

But that's another moot point cuz that's the way they sell it.

 

[CHR]

Don't think we're immune to the impact of this economic environment. I'm in a 'normal' (not upscale) neighborhood and the shop that closed up the street from us at the end of January has already reopened and has a huge 'free delivery' banner hanging in front of it.

I dare say that if we didn't have a lower overhead than most (we purchased our building 15 year ago), didn't have a good customer base, didn't move away from WS fulfillment, and didn't have a decent local web presence, we'd be in a far, far worse position.

Like Darrell, I do know that dumbing down our designs (to compete with supermarkets & PF based on price) for our core base of corporate and regular customers will quite likely send them elsewhere.

 

[RWK]

Depends on the delivering shop and I wouldn't put money on about 80% of them. ( Are you saying that 80 percent of florists can't do a 100 percent 50.00 design? )

I fear senders see more value in lots of flowers vs fewer flowers artistically designed. ( Lots of flowers with broken heads, frozen stems, rotted leaves, bruised and broken stems, heads,? OR gorgeous flowers attractively presented and even boxed with care as to how the flower looks, hydrated well, prepared for travel and delivery, ready for the recipient to take out and enjoy beautiful flowers)

But you'll never "make that fair" cuz those pre-arranged pictures are what's selling, and they obviously aren't gonna stop that, even if they do show you the box its gonna come in. So that point is moot

Back to Goldie's thin Victoria's Secret model. I think I'd put my money on them vs anyone dressed up in the same garb.

But that's another moot point cuz that's the way they sell it.

( and they get all the negative blogs, the bad reviews, and have the marketing skills to offset that unfortunately )

 

[goldfish]

If you (or any other shopper) doesn't see the difference, then you will shop by price. My job is to make sure our products get in front of the eyes of those who do see the difference. Different market, different approach.

There are two problems with that approach.

1) We aren't as good as you are. Not even close.
2) There aren't enough people who can see the difference (see below).

So if we take your approach, we die. Simple.

I'm in no position to compete with the CostCos or Wal-Marts on price (and neither is most anyone else here.) Most of have to have a unique selling position based on product, service, etc... or we are sunk.

Of course uniqueness is important; it just doesn't have to be design. It can be selling 'boxed flowers' which will be unique among local florists, because very few of them will actually do it.

Put a picture of a professional design next to a picture of what the PF flowers really look like when they're delivered and we'll see who gets more clicks.

That's fine. It won't make a whole lot of difference. PF will win.

You are assuming that people are looking at arrangements. Some people do, but I'm pretty sure most don't.

How do I know that?

PF has been growing, that's why. I'm sure they have seen "what the PF flowers really look like when they're delivered" in your words. They buy again and again.

Also, if I may, I don't have your professional eyes. I have eyes of a typical clueless guy who can't tell gerbers from carnations.

You know how I would compare PF picture with Ricky's Masterpiece?

Number of flowers. That's it.

If PF's picture has 30 flowers and Ricky's masterpiece has only 10 stems in a weird vase (which I tell myself "Oh, I don't need that one"), I would click on PF picture 99% of the time. So do most consumers.

But a $50 locally made, 100%-to-the-delivering-shop design vs a $50 PF bunch straight out of the box - I'll take that bet.

If you lose, do you agree that you put my picture in a frame and worship 3 times a day?