FTD: The good, the bad, the ugly???

[Joe Mioux]

When the customer goes online, they are buying a $50 bouquet, do the WS math from there.

I have no more or better way of controlling that $15 service from the Online OG's than I have controlling Randy's, Bloomzie's, Preston's or Goldie's outgoing WS fee so I don't bother.\

The customer needs to take the responsiblity for their buying and spending more money than necessary.

I would guess that between you four and me, that we each have a different outgoing WS fee.

joe

 

[RWK]

So, the customer pays the 15.00 service charges to the d'OG, The WS pays 20.00 to the d'OG, the WS retains 3.50 of the 50.00 leaving 46.50 for the filling florist.

Am I correct so far?

The WS then takes an additional 20 percent of that 46.50 leaving 36.90 in actual dollars for the filling florist.

Am I correct still?

The filling florist has to fill that order for the 50.00 total minus their amount for delivery. If the delivery fee is 5.00 then the florist fills the order for 45.00 product total.

45.00 minus 36.90 leaves the florist a shortfall of 8.10

Am I correct still?

Where is the profitability in filling incoming orders then?

 

[HeatherTuckey]

Correct me if I am wrong.... but I am receiving $35 (actually $36, I believe, 72%) for an order transmitted to me via the dove for $50.

As with many other florists that participate in delivery pools, I can put the majority of my wire in orders received by 11am (or next day) in my delivery pool for one "pool ticket". For me a pool ticket cost $3. So I am still getting paid $32, since I have to go to the pool warehouse daily, whether I have 5 deliveries for the pool or 50.

 

[CHR]

When the customer goes online, they are buying a $50 bouquet, do the WS math from there.

No. Typically through an OG, they are buying a $40-43 bouquet and a $7-10 local delivery charge when presented with a $50 price tag.

 

[HeatherTuckey]

So, the customer pays the 15.00 service charges to the d'OG, The WS pays 20.00 to the d'OG, the WS retains 3.50 of the 50.00 leaving 46.50 for the filling florist.

Am I correct so far?

The WS then takes an additional 20 percent of that 46.50 leaving 36.90 in actual dollars for the filling florist.

Am I correct still?

The filling florist has to fill that order for the 50.00 total minus their amount for delivery. If the delivery fee is 5.00 then the florist fills the order for 45.00 product total.

45.00 minus 36.90 leaves the florist a shortfall of 8.10

Am I correct still?

Where is the profitability in filling incoming orders then?

Your off a bit on the math...but in short. If the filling florist gets $35 and needs to fill it as a $50 SR... the profitability is ONLY there if they have excess capacity. IMO... excess capacity is all of these things:

a delivery truck that is not full (especially a delivery pool truck not full)
a cooler full of flowers to be arranged BEFORE they are "mature" (cuts in buckets)
backstock of everyday arr's/vases already made 6 or 12 at one time (rose arr's, mixed vase, etc).
a room full of blooming and green plants, balloon, fruit, gourmet all sitting in my store waiting to be a gift for someone.
designers working slower than they should b/c of a light workload.

If you're a smaller shop, and you run a tight ship on your COGS and inventory, have very little flowers other than what is ordered for events, have very few deliveries and often take out one of two at a time - then you will rarely EVER make a profit on a wire order

 

[Rhonda]

Thanks for the reference for the small florist... all that is true BUT the problem is the small florists are the ones really taking the hit by foolishly adding those flowers shown by the OG's pictures into their inventory and having them available for the low ball orders where they usually don't figure in the costs as to what they will receive in the end for doing the order. Florists' education ......the real truth about what they are paying out for what they're getting in. (and how to actually market the recipient and the sender in small town America - which can be done)

 

[dlnfloral]

"If you're a smaller shop, and you run a tight ship on your COGS and inventory, have very little flowers other than what is ordered for events, have very few deliveries and often take out one of two at a time - then you will rarely EVER make a profit on a wire order"

THANK YOU for saying that !! I've been trying to convince my husband of this and now it's in writing from someone else.I had to get read of FTD. It just was not doing me any good and costing me wayyyy toooo much

 

[Joe Mioux]

No. Typically through an OG, they are buying a $40-43 bouquet and a $7-10 local delivery charge when presented with a $50 price tag.

Okay.......

That is the same scenario whenever one of my customers comes in and orders and outgoing WS order. If they spend $50 with me, some of that money will be used for the receiving shop's delivery fee.

They are paying a service fee to the O.G. just like they pay me a service fee.

My fee is $5, the OG's is $15.

 

[RWK]

Okay.......

That is the same scenario whenever one of my customers comes in and orders and outgoing WS order. If they spend $50 with me, some of that money will be used for the receiving shop's delivery fee.

They are paying a service fee to the O.G. just like they pay me a service fee.

My fee is $5, the OG's is $15.

I may be wrong Joe....but I don't think it is the fee the customers pays you for performing the service......the objection is when the OG's try to hide that fee. I am sure that you tell your customer that there is a fee for handling the service for them and they are ok with that. You also get a certain amount to help to cover the filling florists delivery and also send the florist that amount with the product total.

Yes, the WS still takes their cuts out of that and the filling florist does not get the full amount........but you have been fair and aboveboard with your customer and with the filling florist.

At least that is the way I see it.

 

[BOSS]

Correct me if I am wrong.... but I am receiving $35 (actually $36, I believe, 72%) for an order transmitted to me via the dove for $50.
.

Your maths right H... but... take that $36.00 then deduct your **actual** delivery charge, in my case $9.95 (or $12.63 in wire service dollars) leaving you $23.37 to create a $50.00 design (consumers view point) and eek out a profit.

Not worth my time in most cases, like today, design staff was sent home at 2pm...we're done for today...

 

[CHR]

Really? We handle outgoings the exact same way we handle local deliveries.

Customer is charged for product, local delivery and relay fee ($0-5 depending on the customer's annual order volume)r and the 3 prices are listed on their receipts. This way, they know where their $$ goes.

Subtracting delivery out of the price of the flowers reduces the amount of flowers delivered. Or maybe that's the way you handle your local sales, too.

What really used to frost me was when I saw a shop charging $XX for a product on their website, plus local delivery - but then send it to us for just $XX, expecting us to absorb the delivery fee as well as the WS discount. The shop could say 'just use less flowers', but IMO that's betraying the customer who was baited & switched.

 

[always]

It is certainly a challenge to be a wire service member and it is about volume to be profitable to be sure. Crunch, I said crunch the numbers. See if they are right for you. Off season must still maintain the annual profitablility.

 

[RC in Dayton and Cincinnati]

To simplify the pie chart the service charge has been removed.

Now the customer buys a $50 arrangement.

The ordergatherer receives 20% ($10) and rebate/compensation of $10 for a total of $20. The wire service takes the 7% clearinghouse fee of $3.50.

How much is left for the filling florist?

 

[wildflowerschicago]

I am new to the forum, some of you might know through my introduction thread that I work for a gift basket company. We are starting our retailer counter top gift basket program and would really like some input.

What are the things you like, don't like, hate, or just plain bother you about the FTD and other services like this???

Any input positive or negative would be very much appreciated.
Thank you in advance.

Jeff
www.amoodforyou.com
:help:

As much as I enjoy the wire service profitability arguement, I think everyone misunderstood Jeff's question.

Not to hijack the debate... but from his introduction message, here is what Jeff is asking our advice on...

His comapny is a gift basket wholesaler looking to start a program for florists where they would directly ship a basket for our customer. The florist would receive a 30% commission for each order. He is looking for our input regarding the things he/his company could build on from the FTD model as a clearing house (he used that example as outsider not knowing that it was akin to a four letter word around these parts).

Here is a wholesaler looking for our input and guidence, not a florist looking to join a wire service.

I hope that helps.

Otherwise, continue with the WS debate.

 

[HeatherTuckey]

Your maths right H... but... take that $36.00 then deduct your **actual** delivery charge, in my case $9.95 (or $12.63 in wire service dollars) leaving you $23.37 to create a $50.00 design (consumers view point) and eek out a profit.

Not worth my time in most cases, like today, design staff was sent home at 2pm...we're done for today...

So in my case even if I get an order below SR, like say $50 for a dozen roses. I have a standing order of $.38 60cm freedom from Miami, plus Armellini freight brings me too $.44.

$5.28 roses
$1.17 vase
$1.05 gyp
$1.00 greens
$$.80 vase packer box, celo
$3 delivery pool fee
$1.87 designer wage (1/6 of 45 min to make 6 rose arr's at $15/hr).

$14.17 COGS
I was paid $36

This does not add to any fixed costs I am already incurring, b/c the product is in my cooler and the driver is already heading to the pool warehouse daily. Profit... $21.87.

Now this is the most PROFITABLE scenario for a $50 wire in order, I know. But even at half that profit - I will take it. Also, I get most of my wire in dozen rose orders for MORE than THAN $50, which makes them even more profitable.

Just for kicks I printed my January (slowest month I would think) wire in orders...
258 orders
$16,182
avg wire in order in January $62.72
My codified minimum is $40. I regularly accept FU orders. More than half of these are FU Flowers.

 

[Erlene]

As much as I enjoy the wire service profitability arguement, I think everyone misunderstood Jeff's question.

Not to hijack the debate... but from his introduction message, here is what Jeff is asking our advice on...

His comapny is a gift basket wholesaler looking to start a program for florists where they would directly ship a basket for our customer. The florist would receive a 30% commission for each order. He is looking for our input regarding the things he/his company could build on from the FTD model as a clearing house (he used that example as outsider not knowing that it was akin to a four letter word around these parts).

Here is a wholesaler looking for our input and guidence, not a florist looking to join a wire service.

I hope that helps.

Otherwise, continue with the WS debate.

Good point Amy. Could probably stand to be split off from the original thread, it has gotten way off topic and the point of the original poster's thread has been lost.

 

[BOSS]

$14.17 COGS
I was paid $36

Profit... $21.87.

Roses are not a fair argument IMO... and I can see where the delivery pool would make a difference... my average cost for delivery is over $7...

 

[bloomz]

Well, at one time, a bunch of the big boys paid late (60-90 days) and still got their rebates. As always, enforcement of terms is selective.

Selective to those that ask for it.

I've never not gotten a rebate and I'm talking way back before I was any kind of significant sender.

If you just take what they dish out and don't ask, well.....???

I was under the assumption that groans were NOT like red dots. Just a way to say "I disagree" or "incorrect".

a c'mon Herb, groans are fun!

Go ahead, gimme one, just to show you luv me.

OK,

goldfish, Joe, Bloomz, etc. I need help correcting my pie chart.

OK - I'd like a slice of Lemon Meringue please.....

.....the objection is when the OG's try to hide that fee.

Yes, the WS still takes their cuts out of that and the filling florist does not get the full amount........but you have been fair and aboveboard with your customer and with the filling florist.

The only one I know of that does that (tho there may be more) are Art's sites that use "all inclusive pricing" where $10-15 is taken off before the order is transmitted, (as I understand it - never gotten one afaik).

There's nearly always a separate line, tho some will claim some mislabel it, but I claim it's just vernacular.

I for instance label mine as service/delivery because sometimes its one and sometimes its the other, and that's the way I choose to do it.....

But Joe's right, it's up to the consumer where and why they buy and how much. They'll pay $14.95 just to rely on that ftd logo.

Pesky dumbass consumers.....

 

[Joe Mioux]

I may be wrong Joe....but I don't think it is the fee the customers pays you for performing the service......the objection is when the OG's try to hide that fee. I am sure that you tell your customer that there is a fee for handling the service for them and they are ok with that. You also get a certain amount to help to cover the filling florists delivery and also send the florist that amount with the product total.

Yes, the WS still takes their cuts out of that and the filling florist does not get the full amount........but you have been fair and aboveboard with your customer and with the filling florist.

At least that is the way I see it.

I don't tell them about the WS service charge, until they are ready to pay me.

It has never been a problem charge.

joe

 

[Joe Mioux]

The receiving florist should be diligent and always ask for more money from the OG's and WS.coms just on principle.

You can pretty much get an extra $5 out of every order just by asking.

joe