BOSS
FlowerChat Administrator
Um Joe... next time as for $11.37...works almost every time. They have it, and the odd number makes it sound like you really figured out what you really need
FTD: The good, the bad, the ugly???
- Thread starter A Mood For You
- Start date
- Status
did you or anybody get tons of calls from just flowers trying to give orders over the phone? I told them I would not take the order over the phone on a holiday and they were rude and just kept calling trying to demand wwe take the orders, cant we do something about them tying up our lines preventing local call?????
Joe Mioux
Well-Known Member
Joe Mioux
Well-Known Member
Um Joe... next time as for $11.37...works almost every time. They have it, and the odd number makes it sound like you really figured out what you really need
sounds like a plan
LJVF
Well-Known Member
I'm gonna go a bit off topic here, but I think it's relevant.
The problem I have with these wire service threads are that they are usually so confusing due to the fact that there are several different arguments going on at the same time which become morphed into one. The following are what I think are the 3 main wire service debates:
- Is it profitable to be a member of a wire service?
My opinion: It all depends on the variables of the particular shop. Rebates, commissions, fees, volume, labor (fixed or variable), etc… must all be accounted for in order to make a determination. Every shop is different, every shop will have a different outcome.
[*]Is the current wire service model good for the floral industry?
My opinion: Not sure. There are many positives that they offer, but also many negatives come as a result of the current model. But can we really blame them (the wire services) for adapting to the changes caused by the internet? If they continued down the path they were headed, they’d probably be out of business today.
[*]Are order gatherer’s deceptive in their pricing methods?
My opinion: There are some that are honest and some that aren’t. Isn’t that human nature? You look at any industry and you will find some that cheat and some that don’t. Say the dOG’s are forced to change their pricing methods, there will be another set of cheaters that will come along and find another way to deceive, and then we’ll be complaining about them. It’s part of life, there’s no way around it.
If the problem escalates high enough, it’s up to the consumers to band together with a class action lawsuit. The only thing that we florists can control is whether we sign the wire service contract or not. The rules and regulations are there for all of us to read, nobody is pointing a gun to our heads to sign the dotted line. If the rules don’t look good, don’t join. If you join and you’re not happy, then it’s simple, just quit.
Joe Mioux
Well-Known Member
To simplify the pie chart the service charge has been removed.
Now the customer buys a $50 arrangement.
The ordergatherer receives 20% ($10) and rebate/compensation of $10 for a total of $20. The wire service takes the 7% clearinghouse fee of $3.50.
How much is left for the filling florist?
Randy,
Filling florist (sans $1.50 FTO charge & other membership fees plus rebates) $50 - $10 -$3.50 = $36.50. I don't see a rebate charge assessed to the filling florist on the month WS reports.
now if you want to add the membership fees I would take incoming revenue down to 60-63 pct of the order, so if that is what you are trying to convey, then o.k., i agree., just don't forget to ADD back any rebate revenue earned.
For me, the rebates offset the membership fees
joe
LJVF
Well-Known Member
To simplify the pie chart the service charge has been removed.
Now the customer buys a $50 arrangement.
The ordergatherer receives 20% ($10) and rebate/compensation of $10 for a total of $20. The wire service takes the 7% clearinghouse fee of $3.50.
How much is left for the filling florist?
I'm not following, to me the breakdown for the actual order is:
$50
73% goes to filling florist = $36.50
7% goes to wire service = $3.50
20% goes to sending florist = $10.00
All rebates, fees, service charges are exclusive from the actual order amount. It would be impossible to come up with a cut and dry dollar or percentage amount because each florist has different variables.
RC in Dayton and Cincinnati
New Member
So Joe,
Are you saying that because you don't see a rebate assessment on your wire service statement it doesn't exist?
Are you saying that because you don't see a rebate assessment on your wire service statement it doesn't exist?
RC in Dayton and Cincinnati
New Member
Darrel,
If you were a large sending only ordergatherer you could easily determine how much you received on each order you sent. Likewise the wire service clearinghouse fee is set. The only cloudy issue is how much the filling florist REALLY receives.
In my example clearly the ordergatherer received $20 and the wire service got $3.50. If the florist received $36.50 as you suggest for the order the wire service must have lost $10 on the deal.
$20+$3.50+$36.50+$60.00 or $10 more than the $50.00 transaction.
I'm suggesting the wire service made that $10.00 up elsewhere.
RC
Since, I seem to be in the left field lately ,,,I have a real question, can someone really answer this one???If the wire services are so darn bad, why do you even bother to belong to them?? and all of this biatching about this same darn old thing? I know that back when we did all of that, we did make money, and still do, so I don't get it at all. and I know that lots of folks on here if it weren't for that TF and FTD, they would be nothing,,,So I really don't get it, I don't want to sound harsh, but you have to do what is right for your business, adn that is all it amounts to, when folks complain about the fee's then call there darn things up and tell them they will work with you, and some know my thing with FTD right now, but hey it will work out, and heavens to be, it is never gonna change, on this subject. so go and promote to the recipents, and call it a day, as some know in my shop we started asking customers why they used them in the first place??" the answer was simple because I get what a I want and a guarantee on things? Do you all offer the same, So what I did was this, Ok you order from us, and I will give you a better deal, don't pay unless you are happy with what is sent, as well as the out of town as well, Well I have got a bunch of happy new customers, who are telling all there friends we do this, and no I didn't have issues collecting the money. So make it to your benifit aned make it work for you, or get over it, The old saying either shshshsh or get offf the pot. It is that darn simple, I don't mean to offend, but I just wonder sometime, have I been in the biz to darn long...????
Joe Mioux
Well-Known Member
I am saying I don't see a rebate charge assessed to my monthly report.
and I DO see a rebate check every month.
and I also do know that the rebate check offsets my membership fees - all of them that pertain to WS sending and receiving.
Joe Mioux
Well-Known Member
Because some florists who complain are also making lots of money with the WS business.
What I find ironic is how many WS-free flower shops (who continue to send directly, without being listed in any directory) can criticize the OG's when in fact they are just micro OG's.
All sending and no receiving.
RC in Dayton and Cincinnati
New Member
Queen,
I'm not sure anyone is arguing that wire services are bad. I certainly am not. I'm questioning after all the dust settles how much the filling florist really receives for an incoming order.
You are right about arguing over the same old topics. I think if we took a poll most florists would disagree with me, so I'll just accept that I must be wrong.
RC
I, for one, don't think you are wrong Randy. There are those who probably feel you are. One thing is for sure though......You are a knowledgeable person and I for one always learn a lot from your postings.
I learn a lot from everybody else as well.
I learn a lot from everybody else as well.
Chezbloom
Well-Known Member
There will always be WS posts positive, negative, whatever as long as there are WS. In my opinion, they let bad OG's in and skim orders, they hide charges to members, they control customer's websites in odd ways and until shops figure it out they always will. So, these posts will continue, you can ignore them or read them. Our shop loves being WS free but we did not make money from them. Other shops make money, great. We don't send out orders, we give people info on how to find a florist on the internet. I don't want the responsiblilty of what another shop sends out. I may sound like a jerk, but I would be more of a jerk if we were still dealing with all the WS headaches we used to have.
LJVF
Well-Known Member
Randy, I do think I get what you're saying. To simplify, you just want to know where the wire service is coming up with the the $$ to fund the $10 rebate.
On this particular order, the wire service has to come up with $6.50 extra to compensate the OG ($10-$3.50)
I'd like to know how many orders sent per month it takes for an ordergatherer to command a $10 rebate. From there I'd like to know what the OG's average $ amount per order is. I'd also like to know how many of the FTD, TEL or Bloom top 100 actually are in the $10 club. I may be naive, but I don't think there are too many in this elite club, I think most have rebates that are a more manageable dollar amount for the wire service.
We all know the key to a wire service success is order volume. Florists want orders. The wire service is willing to break even or even lose a relatively small amount in trade for these orders. Orders are the fuel for the WS machine. The OG and .com orders allow the wire service to push their marketplace products, online services, merchant services, member dues and fees. IMO this is where the profits are at.
two things - it was told me once by a wire service exec - every 100 orders an OG sends keeps 4 shops bill paid.
Big picture
second it was pointed out I forgot an important cost to factor into a filling shops take on that $50 order...
The wire service owner's wife's boob job. Them ain't cheap I hear, for a good one.
So take another $10 out of their pocket too when figuring this stuff.
and where's my slice of Lemon Meringue pie?
PS - I'd sure like, no make that love to get a $10 rebate...
Big picture
second it was pointed out I forgot an important cost to factor into a filling shops take on that $50 order...
The wire service owner's wife's boob job. Them ain't cheap I hear, for a good one.
So take another $10 out of their pocket too when figuring this stuff.
and where's my slice of Lemon Meringue pie?
PS - I'd sure like, no make that love to get a $10 rebate...
- Status