Chezbloom
Well-Known Member
If it were me, I'd let Jerry the pissy Queen sit on his throne all day waiting for the phone to ring. I'd move on. Life is too short to deal with rude idiots.
I just don't get it
- Thread starter NPFloral
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I agree with Boss, florists have been brainwashed. He didn't use that word but I'm using it.
That guy is a dumbasss.
That guy is a dumbasss.
Not the case at all I am suspecting...
We have run into this, many many times.
We have taken steps to call back, and even write to these shops, days later, as we too have been taken aback by this particulary offensive attitude to getting a 100%, and yes we will pay you now order....
And believe it or not -- The excuses make sense... Most of these shops will write back or call me...
The most common one (excuse), is that 'this' shop that fills these orders is getting caught in the middle of some sort of order that is not what it seems... skimmed or trumped up (sold) to the sender, then the originating shop, is doing its best to fill in different markets when it calls out... sometimes simply bad salesmanship... over expectations, and this often leads to dissapointments by shopper/recipient , then compaints go to originating shop - then to filling shop - you see where this is going...
By far the most common concern believe it or not, is that they are worried they are getting the value spent on the order to include the delivery fee - they say there is no way to corroborate any of the information I would be giving them so they prefer not to participate
They all usually have a summary where they say, they are wire service members, for a reason - I see this mindset changing -- So hopefully as time goes on, this will be less of a problem
So these shops prefer not to participate...
Not 'dumbasses' at all....
Totally understandable - Often they tell of being victims of chargebacks on these direct orders and more... It gets much worse... fake florists, people that have worked in this industry, in essence steal flower services from them, using stolen ccards posing as a 'supposed real florist' call them up and pose as a 'flower shop' and steal services via a 'direct order' shop knows nothing until they see charge back notification months down the road...
So there are indeed many concerns....
All of this has to be looked at very carefully
There is no right or wrong way... to doing f2f's, frankly, it is alot of work!
We are very careful in the way we present ourselves when calling out an order -- search the forums for earlier threads for what works for us. - maybe do not present yourself as a flowershop until you are well into the order and have given your ccard... after all, you are at this point simply a customer... provided you are not asking for a discount -- once you are comfortable with the shop - then 'talk shop' about the order... this will give you time to qualify the shop, and also let the shop learn exactly what is is you need, and your budget before they blow you out of the water... try to build some repor with them before you say you are a flower shop...
I think that until someone builds a better mousetrap for negotiation on these direct orders there will always be potential problems
LJVF
Well-Known Member
Back in the day, before the internet, the wire services had a rule that did not allow member florists to accept or send direct orders. Back then, the only efficient way to find an out of town florist was through wire service directories.
Some of the member florists were trying to get around the commission charges by calling florists direct. Other florists (non-members) were getting their hands on old directories for the purpose of sending direct orders.
Every direct order meant one less order via the wire services and they weren't gonna have it, especially through the use of their own directories. So they created the rule that penalized a member florist for sending or accepting a direct order.
Perhaps this florasauraus is still living in the past? ::dunno::
Some of the member florists were trying to get around the commission charges by calling florists direct. Other florists (non-members) were getting their hands on old directories for the purpose of sending direct orders.
Every direct order meant one less order via the wire services and they weren't gonna have it, especially through the use of their own directories. So they created the rule that penalized a member florist for sending or accepting a direct order.
Perhaps this florasauraus is still living in the past? ::dunno::
Joe Mioux
Well-Known Member
The old mind set among florists was that if a shop was without a wire service, then they were poor managers.
Today, many shops choose to disassociate themselves from the WS for economic reasons, however, the old reason is still valid for some of today's shop and shop managers.
That is just a fact of life. There are good shops and bad shops.
Now, there could be another reason your order was rejected. An advantage to the WS business is mediation when a problem occurs.
and with that in mind, when i get orders such as yours, the first thing that i think of is "how much does the sending florist want me to discount this order for his/her cut of the commission." I want 100 pct of the order and if the florist is amenable, then I will be happy to take it. if the florist wants to pocket some of the money, then I will unhappily fill it, but it will get filled.
As more and more shops trend to F2F CC orders, this issue is going to increase in importance. What happens when one shop gives 100 pct and 10 others say they will keep 10 pct, and 40 others will say 20 pct, and 50 others will say 22 pct.
pretty soon this whole F2F will become too confusing and maybe just maybe, you called a florist who assumed you wanted a commission, or assumed you skimmed the order or assumed something else... maybe that florist didn't want to bother with it.
just some random thoughts as I make my last delivery for the night.
joe
Today, many shops choose to disassociate themselves from the WS for economic reasons, however, the old reason is still valid for some of today's shop and shop managers.
That is just a fact of life. There are good shops and bad shops.
Now, there could be another reason your order was rejected. An advantage to the WS business is mediation when a problem occurs.
and with that in mind, when i get orders such as yours, the first thing that i think of is "how much does the sending florist want me to discount this order for his/her cut of the commission." I want 100 pct of the order and if the florist is amenable, then I will be happy to take it. if the florist wants to pocket some of the money, then I will unhappily fill it, but it will get filled.
As more and more shops trend to F2F CC orders, this issue is going to increase in importance. What happens when one shop gives 100 pct and 10 others say they will keep 10 pct, and 40 others will say 20 pct, and 50 others will say 22 pct.
pretty soon this whole F2F will become too confusing and maybe just maybe, you called a florist who assumed you wanted a commission, or assumed you skimmed the order or assumed something else... maybe that florist didn't want to bother with it.
just some random thoughts as I make my last delivery for the night.
joe
Mikey the Flower Guy
It's a GREAT DAY to live, and love!
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Still.....Jerry is a "pissy queen".....defend it or not, and a stupid one too!!
BUT, ever been taken "advantage of" by a NON WS "sending florist"??..when you HAVE, the clouds may clear up a bit!!
There ARE a few unscrupulous shops out there that DO send orders with their own cc's, and then claim back their cc charges based on false premises, and the credit card companies WILL NOT back the fill shop...no matter what...you're OUT!!
So, IF Jerry IS a pissy queen, so BE it, BUT, you NEVER know..there MIGHT just be a raison d'etre for his/her actions, and it's NOT ALWAYS, what YOU "think" it is!!
Guess what??.....Jerry CAN be a "pissy queen" if he/she wants to be....it's STILL his/her business....
BUT, ever been taken "advantage of" by a NON WS "sending florist"??..when you HAVE, the clouds may clear up a bit!!
There ARE a few unscrupulous shops out there that DO send orders with their own cc's, and then claim back their cc charges based on false premises, and the credit card companies WILL NOT back the fill shop...no matter what...you're OUT!!
So, IF Jerry IS a pissy queen, so BE it, BUT, you NEVER know..there MIGHT just be a raison d'etre for his/her actions, and it's NOT ALWAYS, what YOU "think" it is!!
Guess what??.....Jerry CAN be a "pissy queen" if he/she wants to be....it's STILL his/her business....
Well, This GAY MAN is NOT offended by the 'Pissy Queen' remark. Hell, I know queens a heck of a lot more pissy than that. I'll relate an incident that happened years ago. It just so happened that we had a wedding/church flowers deadline delivery in one direction and one going the opposite direction....Well, after completing one, the driver was on the way back...and we kept waiting for him, and waiting, and no driver.....finally, he found a pay-phone ( B4 Cells ) to tell us that he was stuck in traffice due to the gay pride march. Both the owner and I both said.....Run'em over and get your butt back here.....this wedding is waiting and we are behind.
He managed to pull out of traffic and wirework the routes to get back.....we made the delivery....with mere MINUTES to spare.
No, This fellow....if he was the owner......let it go and move on......They'll dig their own grave eventually.
If he was an employee......call back and speak to the owner......explain the situation.....and then tell them that they are out the hundred bucks because you found another reputable florist who would take it.
He managed to pull out of traffic and wirework the routes to get back.....we made the delivery....with mere MINUTES to spare.
No, This fellow....if he was the owner......let it go and move on......They'll dig their own grave eventually.
If he was an employee......call back and speak to the owner......explain the situation.....and then tell them that they are out the hundred bucks because you found another reputable florist who would take it.
Knife's Wife
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There are so many florist without a clue,
I can't imagine they will continue to survive as things get worse.
In the last 3 weeks I have had 2 florist one from Russia and one from Mexico call with direct orders. Huge language barriers with both. They gave their credit cards and and picked something from the site and emailed me the details of their order because it was difficult communicating. I did not give them tax exempt because I did not think I could with other country's. Please correct me if I am wrong. I did give them a discount though. We have had numerous orders from England and the UK since starting the Strider Site in December. Are others seeing the same?
Joan
How about e-mailing this guy and inviting him to come learn from the best and brightess, here at Flowerchat!
I can't imagine they will continue to survive as things get worse.
In the last 3 weeks I have had 2 florist one from Russia and one from Mexico call with direct orders. Huge language barriers with both. They gave their credit cards and and picked something from the site and emailed me the details of their order because it was difficult communicating. I did not give them tax exempt because I did not think I could with other country's. Please correct me if I am wrong. I did give them a discount though. We have had numerous orders from England and the UK since starting the Strider Site in December. Are others seeing the same?
Joan
How about e-mailing this guy and inviting him to come learn from the best and brightess, here at Flowerchat!
taxation of purchases originating in other countries......???? That is a very good question Joan.
For which I don't think there would be an easy answer.
For which I don't think there would be an easy answer.
When ever I call out a "direct order" some companies will give a discount, some may not.
I have called out a couple of times to a FC member and they offered a 20% discount without me even asking. She made it very clear to me what was going to be charged to my card.
Last week I needed a shop in BFE Montana. I finally found one that would answer the phone. They didn't even take CC's!! But guess what, she gave me a 20% discount AND will send an invoice! Whaddya know about that!
I always ask at the end of a transaction "So what exactly are you going to charge my card." Even if there is no discount, that's OK, so long as I know we helped the customer.
I have called out a couple of times to a FC member and they offered a 20% discount without me even asking. She made it very clear to me what was going to be charged to my card.
Last week I needed a shop in BFE Montana. I finally found one that would answer the phone. They didn't even take CC's!! But guess what, she gave me a 20% discount AND will send an invoice! Whaddya know about that!
I always ask at the end of a transaction "So what exactly are you going to charge my card." Even if there is no discount, that's OK, so long as I know we helped the customer.
I'm not super clear on how it came about, except that it is a part of the benefits of SENDING a wire order through a wire service......that the sending florist retains 20 percent of the value of an order......How it divides up with clearinghouse fees and everything else, I have no clue how it breaks down.
Every shop I have worked with has maintained the 20 percent discount to the sending florist.
I see it as a courtesy I can extend to my fellow florist as a thank you of sorts for sending me the order. If you are a shop who does not request or accept the discount, then just say so......and no harm done the way I look at things.
Every shop I have worked with has maintained the 20 percent discount to the sending florist.
I see it as a courtesy I can extend to my fellow florist as a thank you of sorts for sending me the order. If you are a shop who does not request or accept the discount, then just say so......and no harm done the way I look at things.
Joe Mioux
Well-Known Member
just thought of this. next time just send the order tothe filling shops website. forego the commission and the agravation
My guess is that it's just easier to operate with 'rules' and somewhere or another, the boss ruled that orders from florists could only come via a WS machine.
I've run into other florists 'rules' that didn't make much sense, so we moved on to other shops. They include:
- "We don't ever accept florist orders over the phone, you must Dove it." (This was when our Dove was down and we simply could not comply with their demand. Florist lost a $125 incoming.)
- "Our minimum for 1 DZ roses is $100." Happened THIS WEEK! We had $105 but wanted a few stems of pink Oriental lilies included so the other shop said 'NO, we can only deliver the roses'. Ummmm.... OK.... Next.
There were probably good reasons those rules were put in place, but they didn't help the shops become more profitable or sell more flowers.
I've run into other florists 'rules' that didn't make much sense, so we moved on to other shops. They include:
- "We don't ever accept florist orders over the phone, you must Dove it." (This was when our Dove was down and we simply could not comply with their demand. Florist lost a $125 incoming.)
- "Our minimum for 1 DZ roses is $100." Happened THIS WEEK! We had $105 but wanted a few stems of pink Oriental lilies included so the other shop said 'NO, we can only deliver the roses'. Ummmm.... OK.... Next.
There were probably good reasons those rules were put in place, but they didn't help the shops become more profitable or sell more flowers.
CHERYL BAKIN
New Member
Not to have your scratch your head, Cathy, but scam artists happen all the time.
We have been scammed by2 or 3 shops in the last 6 to 8 months who claimed to be members of a wire service & were not members in good standing. The one shop cost us over $400.00 worth of funeral product that we delivered, and cannot get paid for now.
Not saying that you are a no-good deadbeat (
)......Just saying that this kind of stuff IS going on....more and more...every day.
Sometimes it just pays to be cautious.
Anyone, who has somehow obtained your number, can call and pretend to be you....
Cheryl
We have been scammed by2 or 3 shops in the last 6 to 8 months who claimed to be members of a wire service & were not members in good standing. The one shop cost us over $400.00 worth of funeral product that we delivered, and cannot get paid for now.
Not saying that you are a no-good deadbeat (
)......Just saying that this kind of stuff IS going on....more and more...every day. Sometimes it just pays to be cautious.
Anyone, who has somehow obtained your number, can call and pretend to be you....
Cheryl
If you're calling with a credit card - why would you ask for a discount? Isn't the $5000 a year you save enough?
Better yet - why would you give a discount? Do you do that for your own customers?
I do it sometimes when there is no coverage and would never ask for a discount.
Better yet - why would you give a discount? Do you do that for your own customers?
I do it sometimes when there is no coverage and would never ask for a discount.
We extend a courtesy discount to other florists. They do deserve compensation for selling AFAIC.
Even doctors and lawyers pay referral fees and they don't require a third party like a WS to handle it for them.
Even doctors and lawyers pay referral fees and they don't require a third party like a WS to handle it for them.
When I was FTD officer, I floated the idea of changing the commission strucure to 85/15, to put more $ in filling florists pocket. You can imagine how far that went. But since that is the world we live in, for now at least, I give 20% to any bona fide brick and mortar florist that calls me with a credit card order. I won't give it to Og and WS. I chalk it up to their sales commission for obtaining and selling the order. After all, their advertising $ brought that customer to them, so they should get something. I have found a number of florists that won't do the same for me, however. But I have a long memory and what goes around comes around.
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