Actually Shannon, they do do quality testing on arrangements, one shop who is a Teleflora unit VP was tested several times, everything was perfectly fine, just a fluke that she was tested so many times. She has letters and pictures from Teleflora for each test.
Less skewed wire service participation poll
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Actually Shannon, they do do quality testing on arrangements, one shop who is a Teleflora unit VP was tested several times, everything was perfectly fine, just a fluke that she was tested so many times. She has letters and pictures from Teleflora for each test.
I have always been pretty upfront in every post and in my about me page but I'll say again:
I am a freelance floral designer with over 10 years doing EVERY single thing one can do in REAL flower shops, working for other people at the moment and actively searching for real estate so I can open a brick and mortar shop. I don't want to judge home based businesses but I have no desire to be one. I feel like it would hamper my ability to feel professional. That's just a personal thing. My username comes from the fact that someone already had Flora, which is the name of my business. You're right, studio makes it sound non b & m. It's just a username though.
I am an avid internet searcher and have been for years; am really good at finding nice quality shops. I have a list of hundreds. Previous bosses have made me the "go to" person to find quality florists. Name a city and I will find you someone good! (for the most part. In some town, ok, there is no one good, but then a WS can't help there either). I also call people when I have had to send something out, like someone else mentioned. If I get attitude or idiocy on the phone...next! It's always somewhat of a crapshoot even if you get someone nice and they tell you what's fresh.(btw, that is another thing I do, try to sell the customer on the idea that we will ask the filling shop for what is nicest and prettiest. Doesn't always work of course but often does). I agree w/Shannon, the idea of "quality control" just because someone is a ws member is hilarious.
Hope that answers all your questions, Joe.
I also want to mention about quality control: maybe some people are getting tested legitimately but a couple years ago I freelanced briefly in a "shop" where they have junk everywhere, tons of dusty old ws containers, dirt floors, NO SINK (just a spigot out by the greenhouse), & their walk in cooler was a converted garage... the TF guy came in and did his "inspection" and said Ok! Everything fine here! I think the inspection is more "does the check clear" than anything else.
There are a few other shops that are just as appalling I've seen, also ws members.
There are a few other shops that are just as appalling I've seen, also ws members.
Like I said Erlene,
He told me one thing, and 2 days later he told Amy something different.
He even told me I was "too young to remember when they had "flower police" ".
That's when he told me "they hadn't done testing for 15 years"
Then 2 days later he calls and tells Amy they "only do it in major cities because it cost too much to do it in rural areas."
That's him talking, not me.
And seriously, they tested a TF unit VP!!!!! . Be for real. That gives me even less confidence in the system. PLUS as you stated they tested her over and over again and again.
I don't think Our TF rep knew what he was talking about from the start. Plus he was a complete jerk. He didn't want to hear what we wanted to say. He kept just talking in circles. And he was condescending. I tried to tell him how their new commercial was less than desirable to local florists. Told him my problem with teleflora.com. He flat out told me that TF did that to compete with proflowers, 1-800-flowers, and FTD.com. I told him that teleflora.com was direct competition with our store. He literally said "Yeah, so. What should we have done." I told him I'm not sure of the answer, but it would have been nice if in plain sight on the home page of teleflora.com if there was a "find a local TF florist" website search. I told him that we (at the store I currently manage) feel as if we are employees of Teleflora, rather than Tf working for us, and defiantly we do not feel like a partnership. Also told him the suggestion on the commercial the van could have said "Your local florist" Then he got really pissed off at me. Told me "uh, yeah, ok, YOU WIN"
That's when I told him to leave the first time.
Oh BTW, he came to the store to present us with our "Top 1000" plaque.
AND OUR NAME WAS SPELLED WRONG. How's that for "quality control"
I had enough of his attitude and told him 3 more time to leave. Finally he did, and he called the store 2 days later.
I have never EVER told a rep to leave the store, not a vendor either. Only had to tell 2 customers in 25+ years to leave.
He told Amy a couple of months ago that HE would leave TF if HE owned a shop and was TF.
Maybe he's just the worst TF rep in the history of reps. Either way this was defiantly the straw that broke the camels back with TF.
He told me one thing, and 2 days later he told Amy something different.
He even told me I was "too young to remember when they had "flower police" ".
That's when he told me "they hadn't done testing for 15 years"
Then 2 days later he calls and tells Amy they "only do it in major cities because it cost too much to do it in rural areas."
That's him talking, not me.
And seriously, they tested a TF unit VP!!!!! . Be for real. That gives me even less confidence in the system. PLUS as you stated they tested her over and over again and again.
I don't think Our TF rep knew what he was talking about from the start. Plus he was a complete jerk. He didn't want to hear what we wanted to say. He kept just talking in circles. And he was condescending. I tried to tell him how their new commercial was less than desirable to local florists. Told him my problem with teleflora.com. He flat out told me that TF did that to compete with proflowers, 1-800-flowers, and FTD.com. I told him that teleflora.com was direct competition with our store. He literally said "Yeah, so. What should we have done." I told him I'm not sure of the answer, but it would have been nice if in plain sight on the home page of teleflora.com if there was a "find a local TF florist" website search. I told him that we (at the store I currently manage) feel as if we are employees of Teleflora, rather than Tf working for us, and defiantly we do not feel like a partnership. Also told him the suggestion on the commercial the van could have said "Your local florist" Then he got really pissed off at me. Told me "uh, yeah, ok, YOU WIN"
That's when I told him to leave the first time.
Oh BTW, he came to the store to present us with our "Top 1000" plaque.
AND OUR NAME WAS SPELLED WRONG. How's that for "quality control"
I had enough of his attitude and told him 3 more time to leave. Finally he did, and he called the store 2 days later.
I have never EVER told a rep to leave the store, not a vendor either. Only had to tell 2 customers in 25+ years to leave.
He told Amy a couple of months ago that HE would leave TF if HE owned a shop and was TF.
Maybe he's just the worst TF rep in the history of reps. Either way this was defiantly the straw that broke the camels back with TF.
LJVF
Well-Known Member
I based my assumption off a series of posts made by you in a past thread:
These came from the thread "Wire Services Are Buying Your Customer" beginning with post #69.
I think you can see where I would mis interpret your posts.
My original question may have been overlooked, how many orders have you phoned out in the last three months?
lori042499
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- May 3, 2006
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I must agree that finding a shop online is getting easier especially for larger metro area, where people will bother making a comment...
You can really find some shops that are well liked...
However, WS directories give lots of information about how long they have been in biz, how many designers, if they are award winning, etc etc...
It will always be a crap shoot sending to someone you don't know, WS definately give the better shop info, than it happening to be on yahoo.
Then a quick call just to firm up that they are with brain...
90% of my customers just want a nicely put together arrangement with some value...They are not looking for artsy fartsy stuff that I have to search high and low for and make sure a AIFD or similar designer will be making it...For those kind of orders I will search and search and talk and talk to florists before I will pick one....2 1/2 years in my own shop and only one complaint about a fruit basket that someone I know delivered...
25 years in the biz and numerous WO later and not a huge amount of complaints that would make me say, OMG there has got to be a better way.....
I think that people who get complaints on WO are people who promise too much of another shops ability without knowing what that ability is and not doing their homework to make sure they can deliver what you have promised...
Hey Lori, good points all. Just wanted to clarify that there are lots of ways to find info besides yahoo. 
Originally Posted by inferno63
I don't send wire orders out. I call florists direct for my out-orders and take my 20% off the top and use a company credit card to pay.
I remember that thread.
Might I please ask if that 20% off the top is disclosed to the filling shop?
If it isn't, it's what we call skimming up in here.
I'm not sure, even if it is disclosed that isn't also what we call skimming up in here.
I sure wouldn't want an order like that. If you get one for my city - please call my competitor.
Not on anyones side here but......
In the olden days, and even not so olden days....... When a non WS shop need to send flowers for their customer to another town they would call a florist in the other town and give them what we called (and I still do) a DIRECT ORDER.
A direct order meant it went "directly from one shop to the other" No WS middleman.
And in the olden days (it rarely happens anymore) you could even ask the shop if you could "put a check in the mail today" to pay for your flowers. True story.
When these DIRECT ORDERS were given you always asked the florist if they'd agree to do a 80/20 split. Sometimes they said yes sometimes they said no.
Lets do some easy math....
The customer comes in and is charged for the product+delivery fee+"wire fee"+tax.
Lets say they pay $50 for product $10 for delivery $10 for wire fee and tax.
When you give the order to the filling shop You would tell that florist you are giving them a TOTAL of $60.00, $50 for the product and $10 for delivery. Usually the filling shop would not charge tax. And If they agreed to do the 80/20 split, they charged the sending shop $48. BUT they filled the order to $60 TOTAL. Thus the 80/20 split.
This very common and courtesy practice rarely happens anymore.
VERY RARELY!!!
If any of you would like to be on our list of flower shops to call, please PM me with a few examples of your work. We are in the process of putting together a nationwide list of florists we prefer to use.
BTW we wire flowers everywhere, a lot to Cali, Texas, NM, Okla
In the olden days, and even not so olden days....... When a non WS shop need to send flowers for their customer to another town they would call a florist in the other town and give them what we called (and I still do) a DIRECT ORDER.
A direct order meant it went "directly from one shop to the other" No WS middleman.
And in the olden days (it rarely happens anymore) you could even ask the shop if you could "put a check in the mail today" to pay for your flowers. True story.
When these DIRECT ORDERS were given you always asked the florist if they'd agree to do a 80/20 split. Sometimes they said yes sometimes they said no.
Lets do some easy math....
The customer comes in and is charged for the product+delivery fee+"wire fee"+tax.
Lets say they pay $50 for product $10 for delivery $10 for wire fee and tax.
When you give the order to the filling shop You would tell that florist you are giving them a TOTAL of $60.00, $50 for the product and $10 for delivery. Usually the filling shop would not charge tax. And If they agreed to do the 80/20 split, they charged the sending shop $48. BUT they filled the order to $60 TOTAL. Thus the 80/20 split.
This very common and courtesy practice rarely happens anymore.
VERY RARELY!!!
If any of you would like to be on our list of flower shops to call, please PM me with a few examples of your work. We are in the process of putting together a nationwide list of florists we prefer to use.
BTW we wire flowers everywhere, a lot to Cali, Texas, NM, Okla
TOTO
New Member
I gave you a GREEN DOT Shannon.
OMG! I'm LMAO!
How a basic F2F formula SO SIMPLE at 80%/20% can morph into an heated discussion SO COMPLICATED, is beyond my comprehension. And many of those same people seem to be happy as clams filling the WS incoming at 70% on the surface NET, OH MY!
FORE MEE, and if any of them would sign a NON COMPETE CLAUSE, I might consider rejoining a WS, albeit on MY TERMS, not theirs.
Facts be known, that's the crux of the issue.
Just don't know of ANY RETAIL BUSINESS that would elect to be a MEMBER or subcontracted vendor for any fore profit company, who openly competes with them on a National basis, for their own customers along with their 100% sales and their $ervice charges.
After which, they really expect their subcontracted FREE LABOR and FREE DELIVERY FORCE to fill what was once, their own customer orders at only 70 cents from the GROSS DOLLAR and NADDA for the DELIVERY $ERVICE, in on the surface WIRE SERVICE SMOKE & MIRROR WAMPUM.
As I've pointed out before, and when those florists factor in their annual dues, fees, and other ancillary charges, and turn that into the additional incoming acquisition charges, those FILLER FLORISTS wind up netting a mere 54 cents on their net net incoming dollar.
Back in the day, we had SEVEN WIRE SERVICES; Teleflora, FTDA, FLORAFAX, AFS, CARIK, RFS, and FCN.
Learned LOTUS back in 1984, put em all on a spreadsheet, and VOILA, the truth smacked me in my wallet. Dumped six and kept the one we owned back then since, my spreadsheets told me that, you can ONLY MAKE THE REAL MONEY on THE SENDING SIDE, and YOU ONLY NEEDED ONE WIRE SERVICE to do that, back in the day.
Then, and by December of 2001, the new FORE PROFIT VERSION got real greedy, and so, we dumped them too!
Rejoined Teleflora, having been away from them for almost 17 years, only to find out that, they fired my guy, Greg Coccari, a FLORIST FRIENDLY CEO and launched their own CONSUMER DOT.CON WEBSITE in their effort to eliminate MEE from the primary POS, and then, we dumped them too in May of 2007.
What I've come to realize is this! There are just some REAL FLORISTS who GET IT and other real florists who NEVER WILL!
That's not to say that, the REAL FLORISTS who DON'T GET IT are bad people! They are not! They are just caught up in the WS PONZI SCHEME and either have LAZY ACCOUNTANTS or LAZY BOOKEEPERS, who never take the time to properly reconcile their WS Statements, and as such, they only ever look at the GROSS INCOMING, and not the NET NET!
Check out www.myifa.org at only a $40 registration fee and only $20 per month to send out your order to other F2F real florists.
The best part, is that, they will never COMPETE WITH MEE for my own customers in my own local markets, EVER!
Lastly, don't get DUPED or SNOOKERED by others, when in fact, you already know what the right thing is FORE YOU TO DOO, and for your own business, and in order to keep it profitable.
As I've always said: If I wanted to GIVE MY STUFF AWAY, all I would have to do is to, stand outside my shop, and hand out OUR FREE FLOWERS all day long.
After which, ONLY I would get the KUDOS and ACCOLADES from the folks who got ALL MY STUFF FOR FREE! And, we don't need a so called WS partner to make that happen, nor will we be sending them any of our HARD EARNED MONEY to help prop up their PONZI SCHEMES!
OMG! I'm LMAO!
How a basic F2F formula SO SIMPLE at 80%/20% can morph into an heated discussion SO COMPLICATED, is beyond my comprehension. And many of those same people seem to be happy as clams filling the WS incoming at 70% on the surface NET, OH MY!
FORE MEE, and if any of them would sign a NON COMPETE CLAUSE, I might consider rejoining a WS, albeit on MY TERMS, not theirs.
Facts be known, that's the crux of the issue.
Just don't know of ANY RETAIL BUSINESS that would elect to be a MEMBER or subcontracted vendor for any fore profit company, who openly competes with them on a National basis, for their own customers along with their 100% sales and their $ervice charges.
After which, they really expect their subcontracted FREE LABOR and FREE DELIVERY FORCE to fill what was once, their own customer orders at only 70 cents from the GROSS DOLLAR and NADDA for the DELIVERY $ERVICE, in on the surface WIRE SERVICE SMOKE & MIRROR WAMPUM.
As I've pointed out before, and when those florists factor in their annual dues, fees, and other ancillary charges, and turn that into the additional incoming acquisition charges, those FILLER FLORISTS wind up netting a mere 54 cents on their net net incoming dollar.
Back in the day, we had SEVEN WIRE SERVICES; Teleflora, FTDA, FLORAFAX, AFS, CARIK, RFS, and FCN.
Learned LOTUS back in 1984, put em all on a spreadsheet, and VOILA, the truth smacked me in my wallet. Dumped six and kept the one we owned back then since, my spreadsheets told me that, you can ONLY MAKE THE REAL MONEY on THE SENDING SIDE, and YOU ONLY NEEDED ONE WIRE SERVICE to do that, back in the day.
Then, and by December of 2001, the new FORE PROFIT VERSION got real greedy, and so, we dumped them too!
Rejoined Teleflora, having been away from them for almost 17 years, only to find out that, they fired my guy, Greg Coccari, a FLORIST FRIENDLY CEO and launched their own CONSUMER DOT.CON WEBSITE in their effort to eliminate MEE from the primary POS, and then, we dumped them too in May of 2007.
What I've come to realize is this! There are just some REAL FLORISTS who GET IT and other real florists who NEVER WILL!
That's not to say that, the REAL FLORISTS who DON'T GET IT are bad people! They are not! They are just caught up in the WS PONZI SCHEME and either have LAZY ACCOUNTANTS or LAZY BOOKEEPERS, who never take the time to properly reconcile their WS Statements, and as such, they only ever look at the GROSS INCOMING, and not the NET NET!
Check out www.myifa.org at only a $40 registration fee and only $20 per month to send out your order to other F2F real florists.
The best part, is that, they will never COMPETE WITH MEE for my own customers in my own local markets, EVER!
Lastly, don't get DUPED or SNOOKERED by others, when in fact, you already know what the right thing is FORE YOU TO DOO, and for your own business, and in order to keep it profitable.
As I've always said: If I wanted to GIVE MY STUFF AWAY, all I would have to do is to, stand outside my shop, and hand out OUR FREE FLOWERS all day long.
After which, ONLY I would get the KUDOS and ACCOLADES from the folks who got ALL MY STUFF FOR FREE! And, we don't need a so called WS partner to make that happen, nor will we be sending them any of our HARD EARNED MONEY to help prop up their PONZI SCHEMES!
Mikey the Flower Guy
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Mikey say it's almost here, but IMO it really is here. On low end arr's, it's 49.5%/50.5%.
Do the math:
Take the FTD wrist corsage at $34.99, add a $13.99 service charge and the consumer purchase total is $48.98. Total to the florist, less commissions and receiving fee - $24.29
Remainder retained by FTD - $24.69
Did I get lost here somehow? - Jerry I *thought* was talking about members vs non members being 50/50, not commissions kept.
I think I should have said dreaming about that.
I think Mikey's staring at the stars too.
Nite all
lori042499
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Inferno,
How can you possibly say you are not getting any complaints with these statements made...
Whether you skim the 20% or the sending florist skims the 20% or you send it through a ws and the 20% is taken off, what the hell is the difference...
I can only imagine that you did only do minimal WO before you were WS free and do less now...
You are meaning to tell me that if you have a WO you charge your customer say 60.00 dollars plus tax plus a service fee say that is 68.00 3 bucks tax and 5 buck service fee, and give the sending florist 48.00 which they have to tak a delivery charge out of. So your customer is paying 68.00 for a 40.00 arrangement and you have a nerve to say they are getting full value....
If you sent that through a WS to a good honest shop your customer would be paying 68.00 and getting a 52.00 arrangement that is a full 12.00 more value than the way you are doing it.....and delivery was still taken out...
Oh and but the way, I know of no shops what so ever that use two different grades of flowers for their orders, other than maybe roses. So I am not too sure where you think that flower shops use lesser quality flowers for their WI and better quality flowers for their own customers..That would be plain silly. Roses are a different animal...but flowers...If you were getting bad flowers it was because they were sending bad flowers to everyone...or everything was so specific that to fill the needs of the order they had to use lesser quality just to get the order done....
All of you WS free florists want all those nicer perks of the WS but don't want to pay the fees....Thats what it all comes down to...It's all the same game to play just a different playing field and the rules are no better on your playing field than ours.
All I can see is that the customer still gets better value when they order from real florists who send to real florists who all play by the rules of a WS...
Where did you get those numbers? I charge a customer $5 plus tax to send a $60 order. That is $69.55 to the customer. I then phone a florist and pay them $60 to include delivery. They sometimes do offer 20% discount. I don't usually take it. I want the full value for my customer and in many areas a 6" potted peace lily is $50. In my shop it is $30. Therefore I want the florist to fill at the full price they are getting when their customer walks in the shop. I never posted the numbers you are quoting.
Additionally, Lori, you are correct I am not a big sender. I've said that many times. However, of what I have sent WS in the past I had complaints about 50% of the time. Since then dealing direct, ZERO complaints. Go figure.
All accurate quoting but you missed the one where I said that I have changed my policy since debating in that wire service thread, in relation to the 20%. If you read the rest of my posts since those quotes. I no longer split the 20/80. I encourage my customer to go direct or I charge $5. I finally have come to a solution that is comfortable for me and in line with my convictions. It is this type of learning that I seek on FC, in spite of the abuse I receive, it hones my decisions and realigns my focus. So please continue to beat me up. :hammer:
marigold
Well-Known Member
Bloomz, My customer is paying 50.00 for the design. My customer
is paying my fee to send that order. My customer can send it themselves
for 50.00 and save on the fee, or my customer can send the design for
50.00 PLUS my fee and get more flowers. the point is, I don't provide
free service. If I charge $16.95 or $9.95 to send an order for my customer and they pay it and they KNOW that is my fee, then nothing is wrong here.
I am not deceiving anyone. Or skimming!
The difference here is that I am not paying a middleman to keep my
fees or keep my money for a month! That is why I don't use a middleman.
Quality control? If the sending florist knows how to order a design,
there should not be any problem with the receiving florist filling it without
complaints...whether they are wire service or not.
Wired florists seem to be happy with "belonging". Just because they are
wired, does not mean they cannot deliver a beautiful design.
Wireless florists are happy to be on their own. Whatever works for
you.
When you send thru my store, I am guilty of adding much more value
than less! Ask anyone! This a small city; everyone knows me. Nothing
leaves my shop that I am not proud of.
If my customer pays $75 for an arrg and I tell him or her it's $8 for delivery and $5 for a sending fee (just examples), they get full value, the florist gets full value and I make a few bucks for about 2 minutes of work. No ws and it's not brain surgery. I also resemble that remark about how non ws florists want the "perks" of a ws? Totos post above outlines the reality as far as I can see.
Ok I'm over it, sorry for jumping in so much. I just don't get why it has to be so complex.
Ok I'm over it, sorry for jumping in so much. I just don't get why it has to be so complex.
I'm not trying to impugn anybodies intelligence, so please don't take this that way,
But did no one read this simple post of how the 80/20 split should work?
I really don't know how to make it any more plain.
I wouldn't call a 80/20 split (such as Inferno suggested) skimming. The filling florist would/should fill the arrangement to the full value.
I think what has happened in our industry is this professional courtesy practice doesn't happen anymore, because:
#1. There are a lot of new shops that never heard of such a thing
#2. The shops who have heard about it don't know exactly what a 80/20 split means.
80/20 split doesn't mean the recipient will receive an arrangement for less than $50.
But did no one read this simple post of how the 80/20 split should work?
I really don't know how to make it any more plain.
I wouldn't call a 80/20 split (such as Inferno suggested) skimming. The filling florist would/should fill the arrangement to the full value.
I think what has happened in our industry is this professional courtesy practice doesn't happen anymore, because:
#1. There are a lot of new shops that never heard of such a thing
#2. The shops who have heard about it don't know exactly what a 80/20 split means.
80/20 split doesn't mean the recipient will receive an arrangement for less than $50.
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