Less skewed wire service participation poll

[inferno63]

I would say that I have phoned out maybe 15 orders in the last 3 months. That would be down from maybe 7 or 8 a month from when I used WS because now I often give the customer a phone number to call direct when I can. Still out of 21 orders wired out I received about 9 to 10 complaints either about size or delivery. Of the 15 orders I call direct on in the last 3 months, zero complaints on anything. Why is this so difficult for anyone to believe? I am not a big sender but the % of complaints has gone down to zero. Isn't that a good thing? Zero complaints?

 

[LJVF]

I would say that I have phoned out maybe 15 orders in the last 3 months. That would be down from maybe 7 or 8 a month from when I used WS because now I often give the customer a phone number to call direct when I can. Still out of 21 orders wired out I received about 9 to 10 complaints either about size or delivery. Of the 15 orders I call direct on in the last 3 months, zero complaints on anything. Why is this so difficult for anyone to believe? I am not a big sender but the % of complaints has gone down to zero. Isn't that a good thing? Zero complaints?

Thanks for answering my original question. However I'm still confused by your quote that you stated that you phoned direct even when you were a wire member. This was prior to you mentioning that you were leaving 1800Flowers.


Your ratio of complaints to non complaints for your past wire out orders is really rare. I have no explanation for it, but I can guarantee you that it couldn't be just because they were transferred through a wire service. There had to be other factors involved. You mentioned you're in a town with only 400 households, perhaps your pricing may be off from the larger cities? Maybe your demographic has higher expectations for a smaller dollar amount? When you were a wire service member, did the customers order out of the catalog or did they order something custom? If custom, then I've found there's a greater chance for discrepancy. I think a combination of factors may have led to the poor complaint ratio.

15 orders is really a small sample size to work with in trying to conclude accurate results. However, I will say that your practice of filtering florists by phone may play a part in your improved ratio of complaints to non complaints. But for a higher volume shop, this whole process could be costly due to time consumption.

Again, I think you made the right decision for your particular situation to go wire service free.

 

[inferno63]

Thanks for answering my original question. However I'm still confused by your quote that you stated that you phoned direct even when you were a wire member. This was prior to you mentioning that you were leaving 1800Flowers.


Your ratio of complaints to non complaints for your past wire out orders is a really rare. I have no explanation for it, but I can guarantee you that it couldn't be just because they were transferred through a wire service. There had to be other factors involved. You mentioned you're in a town with only 400 households, perhaps your pricing may be off from the larger cities? Maybe your demographic has higher expectations for a smaller dollar amount? When you were a wire service member, did the customers order out of the catalog or did they order something custom? If custom, then I've found there's a greater chance for discrepancy.

15 orders is really a small sample size to work with in trying to conclude accurate results. However, I will say that your practice of filtering florists by phone may play a part in your improved ratio of complaints to non complaints.

Again, I think you made the right decision for your particular situation to go wire service free.

When I was a with a wire service, I did transfer orders via software for over a year. It was only in the last 3 months prior to quitting 1800 that I began to call direct at times. So therefore, you are right....there was a time towards the end that I called direct when I was WS member. Even then calling direct netted me better results. To answer your other question about whether they ordered from a catalog......no, I always told them that because of varying pricing and varying availability it was better to order generically.....ie, "fresh cut traditional funeral basket" or "mixed house planter" or "blooming perennial" etc. Sometimes they would be very specific in which case I learned to ask for a second choice just in case. In your opinion, do you think I should have been more specific?

 

[LJVF]

To answer your other question about whether they ordered from a catalog......no, I always told them that because of varying pricing and varying availability it was better to order generically.....ie, "fresh cut traditional funeral basket" or "mixed house planter" or "blooming perennial" etc. Sometimes they would be very specific in which case I learned to ask for a second choice just in case. In your opinion, do you think I should have been more specific?

I will admit that some of the pictures can be deceiving in the wire service catalog, but there is less chance for error in interpretation of an order.

As far as a more generic description goes, this all depends on the dollar amount given to a particular city. I know that a $50.00 funeral basket may have a different value in New York City then in another city where the cost of living is lower. Perhaps your customer had higher expectations for a $50.00 arrangement.

 

[inferno63]

I will admit that some of the pictures can be deceiving in the wire service catalog, but there is less chance for error in interpretation of an order.

As far as a more generic description goes, this all depends on the dollar amount given to a particular city. I know that a $50.00 funeral basket may have a different value in New York City then in another city where the cost of living is lower.

I have been to San Diego.......I was going to move there at one time about 6 years ago but met my husband and opted to stay in Ohio. Your prices are considerably higher than mine. Loved San Diego and spent many hours in La Jolla and on the boardwalk......anyway....

I tell people that in order to get quality they must spend at least $50 to start to send anywhere else. I tell them that we are blessed here in Ohio with a lower standard of living than most of the USA and that they have to pay the going rate in the area they are sending.

 

[lori042499]

Where did you get those numbers? I charge a customer $5 plus tax to send a $60 order. That is $69.55 to the customer. I then phone a florist and pay them $60 to include delivery. They sometimes do offer 20% discount. I don't usually take it. I want the full value for my customer and in many areas a 6" potted peace lily is $50. In my shop it is $30. Therefore I want the florist to fill at the full price they are getting when their customer walks in the shop. I never posted the numbers you are quoting.

Additionally, Lori, you are correct I am not a big sender. I've said that many times. However, of what I have sent WS in the past I had complaints about 50% of the time. Since then dealing direct, ZERO complaints. Go figure.

You did say on another thread that you take off 20% off the top but your customer know this. Someone quoted it here and I did not know what your sales tax was so I used mine for what that was worth...

Do you or do you not take 20%???

It seems to be within the two threads you jump around with what you charge...but still insist they get full value.

 

[lori042499]

I would say that I have phoned out maybe 15 orders in the last 3 months. That would be down from maybe 7 or 8 a month from when I used WS because now I often give the customer a phone number to call direct when I can. Still out of 21 orders wired out I received about 9 to 10 complaints either about size or delivery. Of the 15 orders I call direct on in the last 3 months, zero complaints on anything. Why is this so difficult for anyone to believe? I am not a big sender but the % of complaints has gone down to zero. Isn't that a good thing? Zero complaints?

What I am trying to figure out is why you had so many complaints before through a WS??? I have never had a 50% complaint ration on WO through any service used....just not sure why you would...

 

[inferno63]

You did say on another thread that you take off 20% off the top but your customer know this. Someone quoted it here and I did not know what your sales tax was so I used mine for what that was worth...

Do you or do you not take 20%???

It seems to be within the two threads you jump around with what you charge...but still insist they get full value.

Lori, if you look at the dates of the posts you will see that at first I did charge the 20% off the top. The dates will show you that I didn't "jump around" but instead changed. I learned a lot from that previous thread and you will find that I have changed my policy so that I charge $5 period and my customers are aware of this. However, I prefer to encourage them to call the florist direct themselves. They sometimes would rather pay me $5 to do it which I will if asked.

I am humble enough to second guess even myself if my policy doesn't fit well with my convictions, which I did in this case.

 

[inferno63]

What I am trying to figure out is why you had so many complaints before through a WS??? I have never had a 50% complaint ration on WO through any service used....just not sure why you would...

I think that I am reading between the lines that you might feel that I say this as a way to support my views. It is, in fact, real. The complaints were mostly about delivery (late or not at all or left in sun, etc.) and then it would be size. I did also say that a theory I kicked around was that perhaps florists may choose less quality flowers for WS than they might for their own customers. That is a theory which I can't prove or have not known to be a fact in any of my situations. I know that I am not the only one based on the thread about the penalties that FTD started with rejects and deliveries. Many WS members in that thread supported FTD in that decision because they too had problems with wire outs.

I understand the need to try to find fault with my debate here by trying to trip me up on the witness stand and I can answer under the spot light, however, this thread is meant for learning about the differences between those hanging tough with ws and those who don't. We can learn from each other with discussion on the topic while still holding true to our individual convictions.

 

[lori042499]

I'm not trying to impugn anybodies intelligence, so please don't take this that way,
But did no one read this simple post of how the 80/20 split should work?

I really don't know how to make it any more plain.

I wouldn't call a 80/20 split (such as Inferno suggested) skimming. The filling florist would/should fill the arrangement to the full value.

I think what has happened in our industry is this professional courtesy practice doesn't happen anymore, because:
#1. There are a lot of new shops that never heard of such a thing
#2. The shops who have heard about it don't know exactly what a 80/20 split means.

80/20 split doesn't mean the recipient will receive an arrangement for less than $50.

We inderstand that is how it works, however Inferno was running into problems with shops shorting the arrangement on the filling side and then in another thread said whe used to charge 20% off the top before sending to the florist so she would send only 80% of what she collected....

The fact of the matter is honest shops fill for full value, some shops skim sending some skim filling....on wire orders not direct orders...Direct orders will be the same if the shop gives you a 20% discount they may fill it to the discounted value, I would hope they wouldn't but you can never tell...When there is any discount included there is no telling how your order is going to be filled unless you know the integrity of the shops owner...

Now the real question is do all of you disclose the fact that local delivery comes out of what you are sending the florist...I verbally line item what they are getting charged...that will be a 50.00 arrangement, 7.00 local delivery for the florist sending your order, 12.99 service charge for sending and acting as your agent on this order and providing my gaurantee, and 5% sales tax for a total of 72.49...Now the customer knows what they paid for and what they should be getting...it still does not change the fact that they paid 72.49 for a 50.00 arrangement but at least I told them the whole facts of what they paid for...

 

[lori042499]

Lori, if you look at the dates of the posts you will see that at first I did charge the 20% off the top. The dates will show you that I didn't "jump around" but instead changed. I learned a lot from that previous thread and you will find that I have changed my policy so that I charge $5 period and my customers are aware of this. However, I prefer to encourage them to call the florist direct themselves. They sometimes would rather pay me $5 to do it which I will if asked.

I am humble enough to second guess even myself if my policy doesn't fit well with my convictions, which I did in this case.

I see and get it...I definately think that in a town of 400 households being ws free is probably a definte benefit...there is not enough volume to fill or send to make up for the charges, period...

 

[lori042499]

I think that I am reading between the lines that you might feel that I say this as a way to support my views. It is, in fact, real. The complaints were mostly about delivery (late or not at all or left in sun, etc.) and then it would be size. I did also say that a theory I kicked around was that perhaps florists may choose less quality flowers for WS than they might for their own customers. That is a theory which I can't prove or have not known to be a fact in any of my situations. I know that I am not the only one based on the thread about the penalties that FTD started with rejects and deliveries. Many WS members in that thread supported FTD in that decision because they too had problems with wire outs.

I understand the need to try to find fault with my debate here by trying to trip me up on the witness stand and I can answer under the spot light, however, this thread is meant for learning about the differences between those hanging tough with ws and those who don't. We can learn from each other with discussion on the topic while still holding true to our individual convictions.

No lines to read between, I really have never ever heard of those kind of percentages...however knowing that you were sending through 800 tells me alot...there are a very many substandard shop in 800 more so that TF...You must be extra extra careful in sending to them..I have found...

If I do not personally know a florists rep I usually call them to make sure my order will be taken care of...

 

[bloomz]

We inderstand that is how it works, however Inferno was running into problems with shops shorting the arrangement on the filling side and then in another thread said whe used to charge 20% off the top before sending to the florist so she would send only 80% of what she collected.......

I think you may have "stumbled" across the reason for a 50% complaint rate right there - the orders were skimmed in the first place?

 

[inferno63]

I think you may have "stumbled" across the reason for a 50% complaint rate right there - the orders were skimmed in the first place?

I would agree with you bloomz if it wasn't for the fact that the customer was aware and understood what value the order would receive. They understood that a $50 became a $40. And if you read my posts from when I was discussing this you would find that I often didn't even take the 20% so the customer got what was expected. And so that no new readers misunderstand....I now charge only a flat $5 to send out but encourage them to deal direct instead.

 

[bloomz]

Sorry for quoting myself - but I believe this to the Nth degree.

no matter how you slice and dice it and explain it and line item it - the sender (purchaser) still paid the gross price of $69.95 for that flower delivery.

What they got for the gross price (yes including tax) is what they paid - period.

No amount of explaining changes that.

It's simply a cost/value deal.

Nobody looks at net cost.

 

[inferno63]

Sorry for quoting myself - but I believe this to the Nth degree.



What they got for the gross price (yes including tax) is what they paid - period.

No amount of explaining changes that.

It's simply a cost/value deal.

Nobody looks at net cost.

Obviously I agree as I changed my policy.

 

[bloomz]

Nobody looks at net cost.

I should have said - "unless it's me telling my wife how much that motorcycle part cost"

Then it's "oh about $50 honey"

 

[inferno63]

Interesting that including the ones dropping ws soon the total will be over one-third wire service free. I would guess that ws wouldn't be happy about that stat. And although it only represents under 100 polled, it makes me wonder what the numbers would be if all members on fc voted or if there was a way to poll more florists. It isn't a big enough sample to be a reliable stat. I would love to see a more reliable stat.

 

[Joe Mioux]

Interesting that including the ones dropping ws soon the total will be over one-third wire service free. I would guess that ws wouldn't be happy about that stat. And although it only represents under 100 polled, it makes me wonder what the numbers would be if all members on fc voted or if there was a way to poll more florists. It isn't a big enough sample to be a reliable stat. I would love to see a more reliable stat.

You can not infer that those who voted "will be dropping soon" actually have submitted their resignations.

Those who voted that way may have submitted their resignation to a WS or they may someday consider dropping.

Since they are still members, you can't lump them into the WS free column.

Also, you did not ask for multiple WS membership/FC members.

Had you asked the question "still ws member, but submitted resignation to WS" then you could accountant for that vote as a WS free vote.

However, you didn't ask that question.

joe

 

[bloomz]

Is that wishful thinking or illusions of grandeur?