Not Much Hope for Wire Serive Change

RWK said:
According to sources on another forum........the founder of EZBloomers is a long time, huge advocate of the retail florist and a staunch anti-OG crusader. Those of you who run MAS systems ........ this fellow was one of the creators of that system.
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Yes - Abner's been introduced here a few weeks ago :)
 
Abner,

I am so sorry if I have caused you to feel stepped on. It's one of my down-falls to be perfectly honest and forthcoming in regards to someone I feel truly is trying to do something good for the industry. I don't happen to agree with your method of helping, that's all. I have tried to give you my thoughts without getting personal.

In regards to few people on fc, I think many are still there, they just are not "vocal".
jmo
 
It appears that TF is in the FlowerChat cross hairs this week..... probably a welcome relief for FTD and Bloomnet (although they probably will not get to enjoy it for long)

I find it interesting that on a board where so many members proudly wave the "wire service free" flag that there are so many opinions on how the wire services must change to serve the industry.

The wire services like any business will change as they need to in order to survive.

The reality is that in this industry the vast majority of retail florists are "order gatherers" to some degree, some just will not admit to it or create their own definition of an OG that conveniently excludes themselves. The exception of course is the individual that stands by their principles and will not take an order they can not deliver.
 
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BOSS's Quote of the day!

Doug Munro said:
The reality is that in this industry the vast majority of retail florists are "order gatherers" to some degree, some just will not admit to it or create their own definition of an OG that conveniently excludes themselves.

The exception of course is the individual that stands by their principles and will not take an order they can not deliver.
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Amen...

And, I don't think they need to change...they just need to go away quietly, sooner than later ;)
 
For a long time I did not understand why larger shops would keep their outgoing orders. Why not just give a florist name and number and they can call them directly?

It comes down to convience and calling someone that you can trust to do the work for you.

It took sometime to understand this and I feel more then ever that there will always be a place that is needed to give your customers a way to send their order for them.

So then we look at these three companies. Three companies that give consumers a way to send their orders anywhere in the world.

Lets say tomorrow Teleflora.com disappears forever. What would really happen?

Would consumers all of sudden start calling local florist? Probally not. Would they just go to FTD 800flowers or Proflowers to order flowers. Most likely.

Nicole has pointed this out before that if they decided to not support Florist Express then they proflowers would just go to FTD or 800flowers and take even more orders away from TF Members. I don't see that working in our favor or their favor at all.

So what is it that TF needs to do? They could get rid of the worst of the worst OG but would those orders disappear or just be sent through another channel?

This is the problem that we all face right now. We should be looking at the fact that Teleflora hasn't followed everyone else and started offering drop ship. That they have really taken the side of saving the local florist. We also use to have faith in the FTD logo at one time and it seems that Teleflora is trying to do the same thing by creating a brand that represents quality. We all have different ways that we would like Teleflora to handle things but we have to realize there is more at stake then just its members. Its all the employees that are part of Teleflora.

Now before everyone thinks that Eric loves Teleflora I don't. I like somethings but not all.

Sure I want the money and I tried my hardest to snag all of those orders from all three companies and proudly showed the Teleflora logo FTD logo and even the 800flowers logo so that I could. But it just didn't work.

You know what works? Developing and Promoting my products. Its what make us different from the other Teleflora florist down the street. All we want to do is work smarter not harder and thats what we are doing. Now all I need to do is figure out a way to send my products to other flowershops through the WS.

But that starts to sound like Order Gatherer doesn't it?
 
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Unfortunately, Order Gatherers get all lumped together when in fact there are differences. I'll be the FIRST to say that all Order Gatherers are NOT bad. Each and every one of us is an order gatherer in the very real sense that we advertise, promote, market, display, and showcase our wares, skills, talents, product mix all in an effort to convince an exisiting or petential new customer to place an order with us.

The difference's all fall in to the methods used to attract that customer. Each and every real florist I consider a H'OG ( HONEST ORDER GATHERER ), Even Art, from what I can tell, does not hide the fact that you are calling to a location in Sarasota Florida. I myself called the Coast to Coast and after telling the lady on the phone that I wanted to come in to see what they had as I was a really picky customer.....she told me in fact that I had called a storefront in Sarasota and that my order would be taken there and then transfered to a flower shop in Columbia, SC. SHe did not try to evade, hide, or disguise the fact in any way that I could tell. So, I would classify Art as a H'OG ( an HONEST ORDER GATHERER )

Now, Proflowers, 800flowers, JustFlowers, FlowersSentToday, Kay's Flowers, and others are what I classify as D'OGs. ( DISHONEST ORDER GATHERERS ). Dishonest in the fact that they use subterfuge, hidden charges, and other ruses to entice the customer to order with them and then to usurp that customer's information to lure them into even more unauthorized spending through 'partnership programs' like the EZsaver debacle.

Doug is right. We all are Order gatherers in the very sense that we want our customers and their friends, family, loved ones, aquaintances, neighbors, co-workers to order flowers from us.

I am sure that BigTed does not get any money if someone orders from Cathy..........I am sure that Eric S. doesn't get a share of BigTed's sales.........I'm sure that Ryan's shop doesn't get a share from Mikey's sales. ...... We all are competitors in a very real way and we compete for that precious customer. The difference is in HOW we compete. We compete fairly, justly, and in some cases cooperatively.......whereas a D'OG does none of those things.
 
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RWK said:
Doug is right. We all are Order gatherers in the very sense that we want our customers and their friends, family, loved ones, aquaintances, neighbors, co-workers to order flowers from us.
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Um, not "all" of us... BOSS<<<<reformed former order gatherer. Have not accepted an order for transfer in many months, but we have given out perhaps 1000 phone numbers to other florists so that they can work with 100% rather than close to half that, and hopefully stay in business.
 
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In this case BOSS, You still are......A floral order is still a floral order, whether or not it goes next door, next town, next state, next country...Even a local delivery is a floral order.
 
RWK said:
In this case BOSS, You still are......
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I still am what? An OG?

We do not accept any order from anyone for delivery outside our delivery area. We do not transfer orders to another florist. We do not take a cut from the potential profits due the florist doing the real work. We do advocate 100% direct consumer to delivering florist business. We will not change this philosophy for any reason.

Many disagree with my principle's, that's OK with me. They can gather and transfer, they can take a cut and help to fund to retirements of the folks at ProFlowers, BloomsToday, BestFlorist, Wesley Berry and others....eventually the system will totally crash as florists go away because of lack of real profit. Some of the best, biggest florists in the country agree with me privately, they're just riding the train to the end of the track. I chose to get off at the last stop.

I'm confident history will prove me right.
 
Yes Boss, You are still an OG in the literal sense of the words Order and Gatherer - The orders you gather are for your local customers and your local delivery and service area and you choose to not handle transfer of orders.....You do that honestly, fairly, and above board......so you would be defined as an HONEST ORDER GATHERER. I am assuming that you want to be the ultimately the go to for flowers for the Midlands Michigan area.....the entire populace ..when they need flowers.......they think Smith's is the only place to go.

so you work hard, do killer displays, network, showcase your windows, give outstanding customer service, give back in your community.....and then when they need to place a floral order....they come to you. You have used good marketing techniques to gather that order.
 
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Is there any difference when a customer walks in the door, or calls on the phone? Even from out of town?

I guess I can accept it the way you put it in the last post... Always have liked HOG's...:scooter:
 
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My opinion on the wire services (as I have stated many times before) is that they are a tool to use in your business. As a tool they will either suit a particular business or they will not, that is something that the operator of that business must decide. The bottom line is that they have a purpose in the industry and for many shops provide a service they appreciate.

As to the issue of order gathering, it seems that some do agree with the premise that we are all OG's to some extent. The problem with order gathering is when a company uses deceptive practices to do it, practices such as promoting free delivery and not informing the consumer that the delivery will simply be taken out of the order value. The end result of this deceptive practices is an erosion of consumer confidence in out product and industry, which is the last thing we need in this age where there are literally hundreds of alternative gift choices to flowers readily available on line.

Unfortunately, I don't believe that it is the wire services duty to morally police a particular businesses sales practices. Once that door is opened, where would you draw the line? Should they ban discounting, multiple wire services, enforce one price nation wide? The wire service in today's world is a far cry from what it looked like 25 years ago, and like every other business has had to change it's business model to survive the changes brought about by technology. Some of these changes have in fact gone a long way to making the need for their original model obsolete (inexpensive long distance, credit cards, internet) and they have re-engineered their business model. I would never suggest that everyone should like this, just that it is a fact.

On a last note, keep in mind that the more shops that abandon the wire services, the more the wire services will have to seek alternative forms of revenue. After all they are simply not going to watch their revenues erode to the point of extinction.
 
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Doug Munro said:
On a last note, keep in mind that the more shops that abandon the wire services, the more the wire services will have to seek alternative forms of revenue. After all they are simply not going to watch their revenues erode to the point of extinction.
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This concept seems to be very difficult to understand here, but is a truth and reality. Again, after much thought, I believe it is better for the wire services to be using florists. They just need to figure out how to do it so that everyone can be profitable at it. Change will come, but I doubt it will be what everyone is looking for here.
 
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Doug Munro said:
My opinion on the wire services (as I have stated many times before) is that they are a tool to use in your business. As a tool they will either suit a particular business or they will not, that is something that the operator of that business must decide. The bottom line is that they have a purpose in the industry and for many shops provide a service they appreciate.

As to the issue of order gathering, it seems that some do agree with the premise that we are all OG's to some extent. The problem with order gathering is when a company uses deceptive practices to do it, practices such as promoting free delivery and not informing the consumer that the delivery will simply be taken out of the order value. The end result of this deceptive practices is an erosion of consumer confidence in out product and industry, which is the last thing we need in this age where there are literally hundreds of alternative gift choices to flowers readily available on line.

Unfortunately, I don't believe that it is the wire services duty to morally police a particular businesses sales practices. Once that door is opened, where would you draw the line? Should they ban discounting, multiple wire services, enforce one price nation wide? The wire service in today's world is a far cry from what it looked like 25 years ago, and like every other business has had to change it's business model to survive the changes brought about by technology. Some of these changes have in fact gone a long way to making the need for their original model obsolete (inexpensive long distance, credit cards, internet) and they have re-engineered their business model. I would never suggest that everyone should like this, just that it is a fact.

On a last note, keep in mind that the more shops that abandon the wire services, the more the wire services will have to seek alternative forms of revenue. After all they are simply not going to watch their revenues erode to the point of extinction.[/QUOTE]


Nope, this bonehead idea is saved exclusively for FWOAC's....they will sit by and watch their orders dwindle and erode until they have nothing left and close up...it happens everyday and 5 more idiots open up to take their places...
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Doug Munro said:
My opinion on the wire services (as I have stated many times before) is that they are a tool to use in your business. As a tool they will either suit a particular business or they will not, that is something that the operator of that business must decide. The bottom line is that they have a purpose in the industry and for many shops provide a service they appreciate.

As to the issue of order gathering, it seems that some do agree with the premise that we are all OG's to some extent. The problem with order gathering is when a company uses deceptive practices to do it, practices such as promoting free delivery and not informing the consumer that the delivery will simply be taken out of the order value. The end result of this deceptive practices is an erosion of consumer confidence in out product and industry, which is the last thing we need in this age where there are literally hundreds of alternative gift choices to flowers readily available on line.

Unfortunately, I don't believe that it is the wire services duty to morally police a particular businesses sales practices. Once that door is opened, where would you draw the line? Should they ban discounting, multiple wire services, enforce one price nation wide? The wire service in today's world is a far cry from what it looked like 25 years ago, and like every other business has had to change it's business model to survive the changes brought about by technology. Some of these changes have in fact gone a long way to making the need for their original model obsolete (inexpensive long distance, credit cards, internet) and they have re-engineered their business model. I would never suggest that everyone should like this, just that it is a fact.

On a last note, keep in mind that the more shops that abandon the wire services, the more the wire services will have to seek alternative forms of revenue. After all they are simply not going to watch their revenues erode to the point of extinction.
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I whole heartedly agree with the fact that WS is a tool for each business to use at its discretion...It is a tool that many feel that they need some of but not all of...

I also believe that the tool is getting far too expensive for the majority of florists to have, there are far too many florists that are too small to carry the weight of the ws(we do make up the majority of shops in the world)...we all want quality florists to send our orders to that is a no brainer, but the quality florists are the first ones dropping because they have a clue what they can and cannot manage...which leave less than quality florists in many of the secondary markets...

I believe that TF will need to separate technology sales from membership in the future in order to stay relevant to the vast majority of florists and offer up different types of membership...800-flowers is currently offering florists a f2f membership for 50.00 a month supposedly includes everything, you get no company orders just the ability to send f2f..If they had more florists sending solely through them and people could send and recieve even enough to cover the 50.00, I think they could woo a whole lot of florists, especially where they do offer pos and websites...Problem is that there are very few f2f orders to be had, I think in 4 years I may have had a total of 12 f2f orders other than the numerous crap og orders that I wouldn't fill.

Now TF has the f2f power, I would jump on that kind of program in a hot minute...
I would leave all the tf.com orders for other people reject all the crap og orders and just fill for the florists and have my pos...no dove fees, no extra listing fees, none of that....then they could charge all the people that want the foolish orders all the fees that they need to charge them to cover that section of their biz and leave me and so many others with what we want just a simple send and recieve from other florists and technology without the foolishness...
 
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lori042499 said:
I whole heartedly agree with the fact that WS is a tool for each business to use at its discretion...It is a tool that many feel that they need some of but not all of...

I also believe that the tool is getting far too expensive for the majority of florists to have, there are far too many florists that are too small to carry the weight of the ws(we do make up the majority of shops in the world)...we all want quality florists to send our orders to that is a no brainer, but the quality florists are the first ones dropping because they have a clue what they can and cannot manage...which leave less than quality florists in many of the secondary markets...

I believe that TF will need to separate technology sales from membership in the future in order to stay relevant to the vast majority of florists and offer up different types of membership...800-flowers is currently offering florists a f2f membership for 50.00 a month supposedly includes everything, you get no company orders just the ability to send f2f..If they had more florists sending solely through them and people could send and recieve even enough to cover the 50.00, I think they could woo a whole lot of florists, especially where they do offer pos and websites...Problem is that there are very few f2f orders to be had, I think in 4 years I may have had a total of 12 f2f orders other than the numerous crap og orders that I wouldn't fill.

Now TF has the f2f power, I would jump on that kind of program in a hot minute...
I would leave all the tf.com orders for other people reject all the crap og orders and just fill for the florists and have my pos...no dove fees, no extra listing fees, none of that....then they could charge all the people that want the foolish orders all the fees that they need to charge them to cover that section of their biz and leave me and so many others with what we want just a simple send and recieve from other florists and technology without the foolishness...
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Maybe it is time for multi tier memberships, however that again will require a re-engineering of the wire service business.

Basic F2F - Does it include an in store directory? Is this mandatory? If not how are standards maintained?
Does it include a field rep?

Just thoughts.....
 
this "discussion" reminds me of the war in Afganistan...never ending, without merit, and in the end, nothing truly "changes"......IF the wire services folded up shop tomorrow, would you be sorry/happy, would your shop fail, and how could you "possibly" move your orders around, because it "seems" that, THAT is all we are really talking about??
 
for bloomnet, it does include a rep...my rep actually offered it to me...as far as a directory, I think it includes the online directory, I am pretty sure there are no ad charges and stuff like that, but I don't know if you can be listed anywhere else but your town for the 50 bucks...you set your own minimums and have fll authority over what you take and don't take...you are not required to fill anything that is 800-flowers related unless you want to be bothered with them...like I said I would have jumped on it if I wanted to stay with a ws and didn't already have tf and all of its stuff. I also would have liked to see more shops sending that 12 over 4 years...but I think they have good idea, I just don't like the other directions thay are taking...
 
Mikey,

I think that if the wires disappeared tomorrow, my first concern would be technology...I can move orders anywhere they need to go on my own, but I would be scrambling for website and pos support...This is the major problem in my life, because of the choices I made 4 years ago. I chose to marry tech and membership together and now am stuck in the disfunctional relationship until I can afford to change it...This is one reason why I think they should separate the two entities, I think florists would be way happier...
 
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