RE: Order Gatherer Websites

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Analogy - Not an exact one but similar in sentiments.

Tom Carlson said:
Why aren't all you WS members livid, outraged, angry, mad, upset with the WS for allowing the enormous number of OG websites?
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Tom, Look at it this way: Many Americans are livid, outraged, angry, mad and upset with the way our government has allowed illegal immigration to get out of control. Nevertheless, most Americans will not "leave" the country because the overall benefits of staying here outway the negatives.
 
and that is why

BOSS said:
The reason I care, is simply because of a non-local advertising in my local market, and skimming orders. I wonder how many marginal shops might not be if they had the full volume in their local market, and there were no OG's in the mix for any of us.

...
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Sorry Bossman but it has to be asked again. And how do the OG's get their orders to the florist filler fools?

Now I've changed my direction on this situation, I want the MARGINAL GAIN filler florists to take all the orders they can handle. Age demographics of this industry and marginal gain filler florists, will let this industry heal faster then trying to educate florists.IMHO
 
Jerry said:
Sorry Bossman but it has to be asked again. And how do the OG's get their orders to the florist filler fools?
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Mercury, Dove, telephone...mostly via a wire service....some of us screen them out, some do not....it's a personal choice...

Jerry said:
Now I've changed my direction on this situation, I want the MARGINAL GAIN filler florists to take all the orders they can handle. Age demographics of this industry and marginal gain filler florists, will let this industry heal faster then trying to educate florists.IMHO
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This method will most likely eradicate the marginal shops faster than any other way...perhaps. I do know some very profitable fillers though whos businesses are based on between 70-100% incoming/discounted work.

Take that scenario...you have say 80% discounted business starting out as a new location/shop and then you begin to add in 100% business...seems to me that if you are profitable at 80% and then add in 100% and continue to grow, accepting all the 70% discounted biz there is in your market because no one else wants it, you may just become a powerhouse florist able to squash some 100%'ers....
 
Frank said:
Tom, Look at it this way: Many Americans are livid, outraged, angry, mad and upset with the way our government has allowed illegal immigration to get out of control. Nevertheless, most Americans will not "leave" the country because the overall benefits of staying here outway the negatives.
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Yes, a very good portion of the US population is unhappy, but they are not going to leave the country, but there is a very good chance that some politicians are going to get FIRED when elections come up.

Much are the conversation on this thread is not asking florists to leave the floral industry, but FIRE their WS. What Tom seems to be asking is what is it going to take to get the floral industry to say they have had enough!! I'm willing to bet that you and many others are mad enough about immigration that come election time, you're goiing to do something, right?? We'll how far can the WS push the average florist before the rubber band findly snaps?
 
Griff said:
I'm willing to bet that you and many others are mad enough about immigration that come election time, you're goiing to do something, right?? We'll how far can the WS push the average florist before the rubber band findly snaps?
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Question from the Canadian:
If you're mad about immigration, is it smart to fire the right-wing party in power and replace them with a leftist party? Firing for the sake of firing isn't productive. Firing a vendor because you're unhappy with one aspect of their business offering isn't always smart, either, especially when the alternative has the potential to be more ackward and less streamlined than the present system.

Ryan
 
Infinite said:
Question from the Canadian:
If you're mad about immigration, is it smart to fire the right-wing party in power and replace them with a leftist party? Firing for the sake of firing isn't productive. Firing a vendor because you're unhappy with one aspect of their business offering isn't always smart, either, especially when the alternative has the potential to be more ackward and less streamlined than the present system.

Ryan
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If and when people get mad enough about any area of contention, they will fight back. The same goes for florists. If you have a wholesaler whose quality or degree of service is no longer within your acceptance level, you will look for alterntives. Some florists will even pay alittle more for the product to get what they want and feel is better for their company. If you have a glass vendor that requires a minimum quantity of prices and that minimum continue to rise, at some point you will look at alternatives. It may be buying smaller quantities from someone locally or finding someone that offers a complete different line of glass, but your dissatifaction started you to look at alternatives. You eventually fire you original vendor.

Because this thread is about order gatherers and the WS here is just a hypothetical question.

If the current direction of the industry continues and it has the effect of "weeding out the herd" as several have indicated, is the industry going to be better off or worse? For example, if the attrition of florists continues and the result is healther florists but far less of them, but they all don't belong to the same WS and delivery costs rise drastically because of coverage requirements, is the consumer better off or worse? If the rising cost of belonging to a WS becomes such that a great many suburban and rural florists are no longer members, does it really matter how streamlined the WS members are when they can't send orders out of their city areas because those rural florists don't exsist as far as the WS is concerned. Are we all better off or worse.?? If the smaller florists all leave the WS because of the costs and they aren't available for OG's to send them orders and the OG's must then concentrate on the 50 or 60 major city markets where most florists within the WS are located, are those florists going to be willing to accept much of the business that will then negate the utility of city delivery pools. In other words, the WS through OG's will have found a successful way to circumvent much of the floral business done through city delivery pools and turn that business into routine wire in business which is what they wanted to do in the first place. Are any of us going to be better off???
 
Tom Carlson said:
Why aren't all you WS members livid, outraged, angry, mad, upset with the WS for allowing the enormous number of OG websites?
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Oh, that's easy as far as I'm concerned. It is because I have considered (and continue to consider) the pluses and minuses of staying "married" to a WS(s) and, wrongly or rightly, have so far concluded that the pluses outweigh the minuses.

Now, here comes the interesting part...

To be angry at a WS with whom I have decided to stay married, I would have to contradict myself: contradiction between rational reasoning (plus outweighs minus) and emotions (angry, dislike). You know that no man can tolerate that (I'm a guy). Usually humans, especially males, are afraid of being seen self-contradictory (most vigorous, persistent debaters here are, I suspect, males; females on the other hand seem to be able to handle a contradiction between practicality and emotions better).

OK, if you are a woman, try questioning the wisdom of the last purchase your husband/boyfriend have made, and you will know what I'm talking about. Even if he actually didn't like what he bought, he wont' say it so. Humans (particularly males) prefer rational consistency to emotional contradictions; where no such consistency actually exists, we even manufacture it to relieve ourselves from distress.

Yes, I do want to believe that, by staying with WS, I've made a right decision. To be honest, I don't want to even think about a possibility (yes, it's possible) that I've made a wrong decision. It's not good for my ego. Being a small-business owner, I don't have anyone who massages my ego, so I have to do it by myself, for example by writing here. Thus, I "cannot" afford to be angry, as long as I'm a member of WS and a human male. That's the burden that Y-chromosome carriers must shoulder.

The other side of the same coin is this, though. If I ever left a WS, I can picture myself arguing vigorously how right I was by leaving a WS. No question about it. :)
 
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Not a valid analogy, Frank

Frank said:
Tom, Look at it this way: Many Americans are livid, outraged, angry, mad and upset with the way our government has allowed illegal immigration to get out of control. Nevertheless, most Americans will not "leave" the country because the overall benefits of staying here outway the negatives.
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Florists pay money directly to the Wire Services in membership and other fees.

Citizens are in no way involved with immigration.
 
Tom Carlson said:
Florists pay money directly to the Wire Services in membership and other fees.

Citizens are in no way involved with immigration.
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Citizens are in no way involved with immigration? who do you think hires these immigrants?.

Just making a observation.

Joe
 
Ok, so now this is an immigration thread ;)

Let's blame it on California and Florida...not only are illegals hired (and I don;t think it's a miniscule number) but they are also given health care, drivers licenses (?), food stamps...and other benifits even American Citizens can;t get easily.... it's the "citizens" lack of outrage that allows it to continue...

Back to the floral industry..."it's the member's lack of outrage that allows it to continue".
 
He's back

BOSS said:
Back to the floral industry..."it's the member's lack of outrage that allows it to continue".
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There's the Boss we love, the lunitic fringe is come back. Now how do we get 20,000 not so independent florists outraged.
 
BOSS said:
Ok, so now this is an immigration thread ;)

Let's blame it on California and Florida...not only are illegals hired (and I don;t think it's a miniscule number) but they are also given health care, drivers licenses (?), food stamps...and other benifits even American Citizens can;t get easily.... it's the "citizens" lack of outrage that allows it to continue...

Back to the floral industry..."it's the member's lack of outrage that allows it to continue".
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Not sure about California but down here, if they are hired they must have a green card.With that said, I have never figured out how they get the food stamps, the attorneys to rep them, their kids get into schools, they get medical care etc, they drive vehicles, they pay no taxes because they are "not working" and all of our local, state and federal forms are printed in second and third languages. One year an investigative reporter tracked down the actual cost of producing the forms in three languages and it was enormous...I mean enough to run a a small government. So Tom, on this one, you are totally off the mark...it is hardly a miniscule amount of citizens involved in the hiring of illegals.
... A few years back, one of the Largest Import Houses Miami was raided by the INS. As the uniforms came in the front door and hundreds ran out the back....since then we have had judges, lawyers, candidates for office etc drop out or be fined for having "housekeepers", childcare workers and the like working for them under the table. Tom, it is hardy a Miniscule number of folks. After Hurricane Andrew, I visited what was left of 4000 trailer homes in South Dade...it look like a landfill.....the illegals would not come out from under the rubble to take the food we brought down in a caravan of vans until the Police officers left the scene as they were afraid they would be arrested in deported.....that was just one trailer park...4000 trailers....mostly vegetable pickers.None of which are legal....
Last month when we paid for an ad in our local rag, we had three candidates came in and wanted to apply for the job and requested to be paid under the table because they were here illegally...so they know some folks will hire them. I don't..can't even imagine what would happen if they were driving and had an accident....but all three guys were upset that we would not give them a job.
Sorry for the long post and the rambling but if you think immigation is not a problem...I welcome you to come and visit and I will be glad to take you to some parts of our towns that have residents who have been here illegally for over 20 years and noone in their family can speak english...yep...so brush up on spanish...or creole and come on down.
 
you kidding ????

Tom Carlson said:
A minuscule percentage so small that your rationale has no substance. Tom
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Your ignorance completly outweighs your intelligance on this one TOM. Come to Arizona,California or that matter New York Do you think these people are here because their countries are taking care of them ? They are here because we allow it !!! AND IT STARTS WITH EMPLOYERS and Government >>> This is getting off the initial threads meaning, but you should relook at your observation. Yes I said relook not rethink.
 
You read me wrong, or I mislead you

gr8vet said:
Your ignorance completly outweighs your intelligance on this one TOM. Come to Arizona,California or that matter New York Do you think these people are here because their countries are taking care of them ? They are here because we allow it !!! AND IT STARTS WITH EMPLOYERS and Government >>> This is getting off the initial threads meaning, but you should relook at your observation. Yes I said relook not rethink.
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The term "minuscule" refers to the employers, not the immigrants. Sorry for the lack of clarity.
 
I'll try,

Joe Mioux said:
Tom,

please elaborate.....I don't understand.

I am not sure whether you are being sarcastic or something else.

Joe
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Joe, I was not trying to be sarcastic. I was saying that the analogy to immigration is not relevant to the issue of problems perpetuated by the wire services and those who feed the wire services.

Consumers are not hiring immigrants, business owners are. Therefore, the ratio of business owners hiring immigrants to consumers is very, very low.

When consumers get mad about immigration, their best weapon would be to boycott anything made available to them by immigrants. The immigrants would soon have no work and would have to go home sooner or later.

Florists are the consumers of the services of FTD, TF and 1800. When florists get mad enough to boycott the WS, they too will go away.

Hence my original question, "Why aren't all you WS members livid, outraged, angry, mad, upset with the WS for allowing the enormous number of OG websites?"

Someone else brought up the immigration subject, and as long as they did:

There is a good side to Immigrants, they perform services that US citizens are not willing to do. The immigrant who clears the table where I have breakfast is making $8 and hour and I thank him for being there so I can have breakfast.

Would we buy plants and cutflowers at the prices we like to pay if it were not for immigrants? Would consumers buy roses from a shop that buys only from growers who do not hire immigrants?

As far as I am concerned, the hourly wage should not have to be an issue. There should not be any illegal immigrants. The legal immigrants should get the same pay anyone would get.

The point is that Immigrants are willing to do tasks that others will not do. They should get the going hourly rate and they should be legal.
 
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