Sad state of 'Help Wanted'

[jamie]

well my daughter yanked out my ethernet cable and saved you all from having to scan over a 1000 word rant that started with the perceived self-value of the American worker and ended somewhere near Obamacare.

There was one factual nugget in there though that I feel is worth retyping.

Deciding on an employee's wage should be a simple matter of Arithmetic.
Decide on a sales forecast for the upcoming year. Decide on your target labor percentage. Then figure out how to divide up the money that you think you will have for labor. Something like this:

$100,000 in sales (for simplicity's sake)
$20,000 in labor (20% labor, a benchmark for owner operators that don't take a set salary)
2080 (40 hours per week at 52 weeks a year)
$20,000 divided by 2080 is $9.62.
$9.62 That should be your AVERAGE wage for one full time equivalent employee.

Let's say you have two employees that work 20 hours per week each. If one makes $11 an hour then the other one cannot be paid more than $8.24

If you are paying more than that then you are over budget. You will have to: do more in sales, get the same productivity in less hours or make less profit.

FYI if you send your helper home and clean the buckets yourself, you are not actually saving labor. You are paying yourself for doing their job. There is nothing wrong with that if you want to pull more revenue from your business in the short term (I am doing this ALOT right now), but it is not a long term solution to high labor costs.

p.s. your labor budget MUST INCLUDE payroll taxes, income tax withheld and/or paid by you, workman's comp insurance and any other expense involved in employing people in order to be true

 

[flst4evr]

Hmmm, a lot to ingest here. I just signed on and read all these posts, a lot of ground covered. My first thought when I started reading was remembering back to more than 15 years ago here in Toronto, one of the community colleges cancelled it's floral design courses because it had the lowest placement wages in the college. Yes, below make up artist, massage technician etc. As far as comparing accredation it's more like hairdresser, you have to have a licence to be one of those. Doesn't mean you are a good hairdersser, just hopefully wont blind someone with bleach or set their hair on fire. There is a full time course here at Senecca College. I have had many students from it in my shop doing a few hours in shop experience (part of the course) Some of them are talented, some are completely incompetant. I would never consider completing the course and passing as any sort of recommendation if I was hiring. Some of what they teach I completely disagree with.
As far as AIFD, well if someone was looking for a job and said they had their AIFD I'm afraid my first thought would be, Noooo, I just want someone who can make nice arrangements, quickly, that are made properly (stems fully inserted, foam properly taped, no lazy short cuts, and frankly that look like the ones on the website! Not a bloomin artisan. Sure sometimes we get to create different and fabulous pieces but these days every phone call when we ask "what would you like to send" gets the reply "I'm on your website and I'm looking at..." Call it copying or cookie cutter if you want but most people want to chose their own selection and you need to be able to make it well. Frankly it has cut down on the years of missenterpreting one person's view of "bright" "something really nice" etc. I had a florist complaint just last week, a funeral tribute, something bright. We did lime green, yellow and white, they said white isn't bright (??) and she didn't like green fujis, how the h*** was I supposed to know that? Give me pictures, at least I don't have to read your mind!

As far as pay, my designer is underpaid but he is now making slightly more than me. Also he got 3 weeks holiday every year where as I haven't had a week in 3 years...

 

[theRKF]

You have taken the words out of my mouth, Training and certification is an investment in your business and chosen career. For a shop owner to use the excuse of $2500 being too much is ironic considering the investment they make every month in rent, or the cost setting up their business. Too often the cart is put before the horse.

At a recent training event, one of the florists asked me (in the context of building a business case for hiring an SEO consultant): "What would it cost me to do this myself?"

Answer:
Time reading, testing and studying others: 10-20 hrs per week @ whatever rate you value yourself
Certification: $5,000+ for the Bruce Clay Advanced SEO course (or $3k for the basic)
Conferences: $1,500 or so for a 3 day conference ($1-1.2k for a 2 day)
Tools: Expect to pay several hundred dollars a month
Yes, you can get away with free tools, skipping events and no certification ... but you can also arrange flowers in your living room

When I hear about $2,500 for a lifetime certification, $100-$300 to attend a Friday to Monday conference, or $50-$100 for a design show (and that's too much??) it gives me pause.

 

[jamie]

My aunt was self taught, My wife was self taught/guided by my aunt. My other two lead designers are second and 3rd generation florists who were taught by their parents. Everyone I have met in the business is either self-taught, born into it or learned from a mentor.

There is absolutely nothing about a floral business that requires certification. It may help established florists by stifling new competition, but I am personally happy to see people who decide to try doing what they love. They may fail at the business, but florists are not unique in this problem. It's a chance that any independent entrepreneur takes.

BTW Fls4evr, thank you for that refreshing post. You nailed it when you said that you just need someone to be efficient and effective. The average every day customer just wants something pretty without having to sell a kidney to afford it. These are the people who pay my wife's new car payment.

 

[concord]

I, too, feel that requiring certification would be pointless and a way for the greedy government to charge us for one more thing. Design is very subjective and the public will vote with their wallets. Who am I to say that the florist in the next town should not be allowed to open just because I hate their spray painted flowers and out dated style? If that's what their customers want, and they apparently do since the shop has been around for many years, then why should some random certification judges get to say no? Yes, doctors, lawyers, plumbers, electricians and even hairdressers need liscenses but the risk and damage caused by doing those jobs poorly are much greater than getting an ugly flower arrangement. Some florists are truly artists, some are craftsmen, some are just great at marketing, and some are all of the above or none of the above. It's up to each of us to decide how we want to run our flower shops and the last thing we need is government interference.

 

[shannonlovesflowers]

At a recent training event, one of the florists asked me (in the context of building a business case for hiring an SEO consultant): "What would it cost me to do this myself?"

Answer:
Time reading, testing and studying others: 10-20 hrs per week @ whatever rate you value yourself
Certification: $5,000+ for the Bruce Clay Advanced SEO course (or $3k for the basic)
Conferences: $1,500 or so for a 3 day conference ($1-1.2k for a 2 day)
Tools: Expect to pay several hundred dollars a month
Yes, you can get away with free tools, skipping events and no certification ... but you can also arrange flowers in your living room

When I hear about $2,500 for a lifetime certification, $100-$300 to attend a Friday to Monday conference, or $50-$100 for a design show (and that's too much??) it gives me pause.

First of all It's not a lifetime certification...There are still "dues" to pay every year as well as CEU's.
#2- my point is- ME being certified at the state level or AIFD will not make me more money. period. It wont- no one cares- except other certified designers. And how many AIFD designer can't buy a job because MANY shop owners think 'AIFD=Primadonna'


But I think the biggest misconception about AIFD designers is that they wont make roundy moundies or use leather leaf or babies breath.

I perosnall don't care for those flowers- BUT I WILL MAKE ALL DAY LONG ROUNDY MOUNDIES IN GREEN PLASTIC DESIGN DISHES CARN AND LEATHER AND BB if that's what I'm paid to do.


FTR-I go to every conference, design show, workshop I can. Knowledge is power which can translate into money. Letters after my name mean nothing to my customers- They just want to know I can make 'pretties' and do what I promise and show up on time.


If I ever do test for any type of certification it will be with the understanding that it wont make me more employable to a shop owner or to my brides- It will be for my own personal gratification, because no body else will care.

 

[shannonlovesflowers]

You have taken the words out of my mouth, Training and certification is an investment in your business and chosen career. For a shop owner to use the excuse of $2500 being too much is ironic considering the investment they make every month in rent, or the cost setting up their business. Too often the cart is put before the horse.

I have worked for 10 different companies, including my own, as a designer or designer/shop manager.....Do you know how many out of all 10 in 3 different states in 4 different cities that the shop owner was a an actual designer? One- my business. And only ONE OTHER that had a shop owner who worked in a flower shop before she opened her own shop..And that was the first shop I ever worked for from the time I was 12 until 23 years old.


So what does that tell you? It tells me that everybody thinks the flower shop business is easy breezy and anybody can do it. All 8 of those people thought it was easy breezy and had not a clue what was involved.

The general public does not hold floral designers in the same regard as mechanics or electricians or doctors or lawyers. Good grief- Ive said it before- I've had 2 men on 2 different occasions tell me the exact same words "A monkey can do what you do." Yeah it pissed me off, but it confirms to me that the GENERAL PUBLIC FLOWER BUYING PEOPLE couldn't care less about us having our meaningless (in their minds) certification. They don't care. And my point is by being certified, flower shops wont be able to charge more for their flowers nor pay their 'certified' designers more. So what's the point? The point is personal satisfaction OR teaching floral design.

I know nobody wants to hear this.

Now there are some flower buyers who can see the differnce in really good floral design and really bad. We all love those people because they can appreciate us and what we do. I'm sure they don't know what AIFD is or CPF or CFD. But they like us anyway.


I mean come on guys, people drop ship over and over lousy boxes of flower off the net and never set foot in a flower shop.


I don't think flower shop owners (unless they are VERY VERY VERY high end and high volume) will ever be able to pay their designers $20+ again. Coast to Coast I bet most shop owners are paying an average of $9 to their designers and thinking that $11 is BIG bucks.

It's just how it is in this business now. It sucks, but thats how it is. Blame it on the internet.

 

[Sarah Jane]

Certification is not neccessary (however I think it's highly valuable for personal satisfaction) because the customers will decide who is good and who is not. I mean, it's hard enough for a good shop to stay in business. I find it really hard to believe that a bad shop who does bad design and doesn't know much about flowers could stay in business for too long. Why would anyone shop there? Certifications are beside the point. Florists get too caught up in thinking that a successful shop has so much to do with design. Don't get me wrong, the product always has to be good no matter what in order to succeed but it's the other things that will make or break you (like service, consistency, and image).

When people are asked about what they love about Disney World the most common answers are that it's clean and that the people are friendly. Look how much they spend on rides and over and over it's the cleanliness and friendly answer. Does it mean that they could succeed without great rides? no. But it's all the other details that have propelled them to big success and a huge fan base. Ultimately they are known for their service (which includes cleanlieness). I think customers want an attractive product at a fair price... but it's just part of the package. And I do believe that almost anyone can learn to do floral design well enough to please the average consumer. But I think more florists should school themselves in great customer service--this is ultimately why I believe the franchises are taking over in many retail industries. They are providing the customer with an experience that goes far beyond the product.

I think it's crazy that anyone would think that I need a certification to run my florist business. My customers love me and they buy from me and that's all I need. As far as the pay thing which was the original topic; I think it's a pretty typical pay scale for retail business. Consumers generally don't want to pay so much for flowers so how can shops then pay someone so much to design them especially when the consumers aren't demanding awesome design but great service and quality flowers. The consumer decides the value of things. Last shop I designed for/managed I was making 55k which is way more than I make now (that was a high salary but it was a franchise shop and at the time we were the #1 sales shop in the country in the chain). But, unfortunately, I found the $8 an hour young college kids to be a much bigger asset to the company than any $12 an hour designer we ever hired. Sad but true. They are over-focused on design but underfocused on other things. Not always the case but this was generally my experience. I personally would not pay anyone $20 an hour to do flowers for my shop. Design is really important to me but not so much to the average flower shopper these days. And I would love to train towards AIFD and I believe I will someday... but just for personal satisfaction of course.

 

[herndonflorist]

I don't think flower shop owners (unless they are VERY VERY VERY high end and high volume) will ever be able to pay their designers $20+ again. Coast to Coast I bet most shop owners are paying an average of $9 to their designers and thinking that $11 is BIG bucks.

It's just how it is in this business now. It sucks, but thats how it is. Blame it on the internet.[/QUOTE]

In my shop we pay a living wage. Way, way more than the $10/hr starting wage we are talking about. I guess that is why most of my employees have been with me for over a decade.
I wish as an industry we were all in a position to offer medical benefits because without that we will never be an industry capable of supporting it's employees. I wish we could offer continuing education that was affordable, and available to all. FTD had a program at one time for Master certification. Teleflora has a program for education, but it is out of reach for most florists. Some of these things once were offered by wire services in an effort to build a better industry. Now their only motive is their own corporate profits. They have forgotten the "Service" part of wire service. Which is too bad, but I am afraid gone forever.
Believe it or not $2500 is out of reach right now for a lot of us. This has nothing to do with not caring about our continued education, but has more to do with return on investment. Personally I would rather take the $2500 and attend some of the wonderful seminars available, Rene Van Rems, Phil Rulloda, Design schools in the Netherlands or England, etc. I think my customers would get a better product from me, more so than any certification would offer. never the less, it is up to each of us to be the best educated, designer we can be. To keep up with the latest in trends and industry innovations is our responsibility, and it will pay for itself.
There is a big difference between design and flower arranging as we all know, and you know which category your shop falls into and your pay scale probably reflects that. I would say the same is true for 800-Flowers. They do not pretend to offer design, just flower arrangements.

 

[shannonlovesflowers]

I agree Anne! I'd rather take the money and take a class any day! I so totally want to take a class at Phils school! we shall see!

 

[Carol Bice]

At the risk of being shouted down I will state that being AIFD has worked for me financially. But, I made it work for me. It is still working for me financially.

 

[jamie]

At the risk of being shouted down I will state that being AIFD has worked for me financially. But, I made it work for me. It is still working for me financially.

I don't doubt that one bit. If I were AIFD, I would tell every bride, corporate prospect and funeral director. I don't think there are any in my town. I have asked my wife to consider it for that very reason.

 

[secretgarden]

We are not fortunate enough to have a 1st generation florist much less a 1st generation in our shop. So the first thing the previous owner told me was get your ICPF. I wish I would have done it BEFORE I bought the shop. I would have negotiated a better deal, cut some of the fat from day one, and I would have been better prepared for my first holiday.

When my husband completes his ICPF this March we will have 3 certified florists in our shop. Are we the busiest shop in town? NO Are we the biggest shop in town? NO. Do I think it helps in our daily sales? Not yet.... We are going to promote this more, I really need to get it on page one of our website, I need to use it in our radio spots, I need to do more to let the customer know about it. I need to put "With 3 Certified Professional Florists on staff blah blah" into EVERYTHING come March. Do I think that will help, YES.

Rick once said at a convention I went to "We are the premier floral shop in our town. Why? Because we told them we are." If you do not tell everyone why it's important they will never know.

Am I the best designer in town because of certification? NO Do I think at one time I could be? YES. I think if I practice, and practice, and keep going over what I learned, and keep educating myself I will be able to turn all of those questions I answered NO to into YES.

I value education, that is why I pay to use this site. That is why I spend my nights looking at work from all over the world, reading articles, and blogs.

I believe you use your education in every design you make. It does not matter if it is an award winning piece or a daisy pom basket. Your education is more then just design, it is in how you process, how you care for, how you store, and how you design those flowers. Anyone can make a daisy pom basket, maybe. Can they make one that will not fall apart, will not die in a day or two. Stem insertions, securing the foam, and the overall look of the design all comes from your education.

I'm probably not saying it right because I'm very adamant over the importance of education. So my emotions have the best of me. I'm sure there will be more later, but I need to sort my thoughts

 

[Doug Munro]

At the risk of being shouted down I will state that being AIFD has worked for me financially. But, I made it work for me. It is still working for me financially.

Carol,
No risk of my shouting you down, AIFD certification like any degree or education is no guarantee. It is still up to the individual to take that certification and turn it into income. My 15 year old son has asked me if a good education and a degree will guarantee him him a good income, and my answer to him is that being without one makes it a lot more difficult in a competitive workforce and having one greatly improves your chances as long as you "make it work for you".

 

[shannonlovesflowers]

I'm not 'shouting down' anybody....I'm just saying the hay days of the 80's and designers being paid $20+ an hour in a shop are long gone. And we need to be realistic about that.

Most shops want experienced, fast, good looking, open minded, not-afraid-to-scrub-a-toliet-or-bucket, computer savvy, trouble shooting-fast thinking, great merchandising, with great customer service skills, able to 'upsell' floral designers/arrangers (whatever term your most comfortable with) for tippy top pay of about $13.....BUT you'll need to go home if it's slow.
And if your able to make $15 an hour or more- shoot, you're really doing good!


My words aren't a put down to shop owners- just the reality of the situation. And I'm a realistic person.


Doug- your 15 year old son was quite smart to ask the question. Not oh so long ago I had a job as a shop manager/lead designer where every single person in the shop who was full time had a college degree of some sort. I do not have a college degree of any sort- but I was the highest paid person in the shop, even more than the owner.

I'm guessing my point from all my posts is totally lost.

 

[CHR]

The more education, the more tools in the mental drawer. The more opportunities to say yes to clients and get their jobs done well. The better jobs you can bring to the table, the better income.

Carol so completely gets it. More than a piece of paper and letters after your name, it's about networking with your peers and using your achievements to better place yourself in the eyes of consumers. Then you have to deliver, 'cuz all the great marketing in the world won't cover up mediocre work.

On another note, a few years ago, cake guru Sylvia Weinstock spoke at AIFD Symposium. She talked about all the offers her company received from 'interns' and said she always declined. Interns (learners on-the-job) require huge amounts of time and training and just when they get to the point of being useful, they're off to use her own ideas to try and compete against her. While her staff was teaching/instructing/supervising, they could have been actually producing.

Training time on-the-job is a huge resource drain and can actually cause grief within your team. I tell intern wanna-be's to get some design training and then call us back. There are too many good places where designers can learn and if they won't commit dollars and time toward their own careers, why should we?

I started this thread after reading a Craigslist ad for 'experienced designers' with sadly low wages. Good jobs are still around for designers but arrangers' (copyists') wages are seriously depressed. IMO that's due to the deep discounts required for filling incomings. There's no money left to pay decent wages - and really - the skill levels required to make most nationally advertised specials isn't that great. SpongeBob making crabbie patties has more creative license than a line-arranger at a floral filling station.

Great posts in this thread. Thanks for all your thoughts and passion on the state of floral designers today.

 

[anytimeflowers]

Just thought I would share a blog post. This is actually the paragraph I have on my website. I wrote it to tell people about myself and for a content piece. It touches on certification though and probably puts my thoughts into the context I want to convey so I'll just copy and paste it here.

A Personal Note From the President ~ Linda Pawlik, CFD, MNCF

Mypersonal passion has always been working with fresh flowers. Finding new and creative ways to add an extra dimension to an already beautiful creations ~ the flower ~ is a wonderful occupation.
I wrote my first business plan when I was 13 years old, I just always wanted to be a florist. Starting Anytime Flowers in 1997 was a culmination of the experience and dreams of a life time pursuit of what I love ~ being a florist in Minnesota. My first job as a florist was in 1980 and I continued to learn the art for the next 17 years as a floral designer in various flower shops in Minnesota.
My learning did not stop once I started Anytime Flowers though, I don't think the continuing education will ever end. The letters behind my name mean a lot to me, and although the average person may not know what they mean specifically, those letters assure one thing. Here is a professional who spends the time and money to continue on a life-long path of learning an ever changing craft. What that means for you is that you will always receive the best in flowers and floral design, simply because it is my passion!

 

[shannonlovesflowers]

I do agree Cathy. I asked a question on Facebook as a spinoff of this thread. The responses were interesting. Paul Lopez left a great post...Which got me think as well as Carols post earlier.

I was a vendor at a Bridal Expo at "The" Country Club here in ABQ today. Not a huge amount of brides but what I was so shocked by was all the vendors who were coming up to me and asking to network with me in some form. Asking if I would bring my cards to their shops to give to their clients. WoW-za...That's cool. My awards and experiences in this floral biz has greatly helped me. Next year is either going to blow up in a good way for me or be really flat. Either way- I'm going to continue to bust my behind "getting out there".

Get this- at the end of the show one of the cake vendors came over and asked to buy one of my bouquets.... Whoa. I totally sold it to him. This is the biggest (most volume) cake shop in town hands down. Then he had his wedding coordinator come talk to me to set up a meeting with me to get my literature in the cake shop....AND they want me to come be a part of their week day evening cake tasting parties. They Really liked me. The shop owner said he would like me to do flowers for him when he does these events...cool...Funny thing is I've met this guy before at WAY bigger expos- for some reason he really took a shining to me and my work this time. Or maybe at the other expos they were so big that we didn't get a chance to connect. And I did have my awards on display and did let him know I'm the current NM DOY and it's the second time I won. So I think those things (as well as certification) do matter for networking especially!

 

[Doug Munro]

The more education, the more tools in the mental drawer. The more opportunities to say yes to clients and get their jobs done well. The better jobs you can bring to the table, the better income.

Good jobs are still around for designers but arrangers' (copyists') wages are seriously depressed. IMO that's due to the deep discounts required for filling incomings. There's no money left to pay decent wages - and really - the skill levels required to make most nationally advertised specials isn't that great. SpongeBob making crabbie patties has more creative license than a line-arranger at a floral filling station.

Is there any issue in this industry that at some point someone on this board won't blame on the WS's and filling incoming orders?

Seriously folks, based on the above logic non filling shops should by default pay more. So here is where all the WS Free shops need to speak up and detail how they raised staff wages once they dropped the WS's.

And you wonder why I have so little faith that FFC will actually change anything. With that said....Good Night

 

[concord]

Is there any issue in this industry that at some point someone on this board won't blame on the WS's and filling incoming orders?

Seriously folks, based on the above logic non filling shops should by default pay more. So here is where all the WS Free shops need to speak up and detail how they raised staff wages once they dropped the WS's.

And you wonder why I have so little faith that FFC will actually change anything. With that said....Good Night

Well actually I do pay more now that I am wire free, but still not as much as I would like to for good employees. Working on that though. And the money I have saved on WS is going into marketing my web site. So some of us are walking the walk and talking the talk. I for one am sick to death of even talking about the WS/OG situation.