Should this board be open to Home Based businesses?

[Mikey the Flower Guy]

If this forum was originally set up as a flower and garden forum for hobbyists, then I could see no problem with amatuers, enthusiasts and pros coming together to share ideas.

However, this forum was formed for the advancement of "Real Florists". It took me a long time reading this board to truly appreciate the meaning of those two words.

So amatuers, hobbyists shouldn't be here. Affiliated industries should.

This forum is here for the advancement of Professional Florists.

Whether you operate your legitimate business out of a store, studio, warehouse or your basement, the most important element is being a competent floral designer/florist (non-designer mgr/owenr). Flower shop employees, other than, previously stated? Probably, that is how the can learn as well.

This board is here for the advancement of those operating a business or working in the floral industry full-time, not just when the urge to "get creative and have fun" suits your personal schedule or to make a bit of money on the side.

I don't favor excluding people, but I also don't appreciate seeing this forum open to just anyone who has an interest in flowers. We do discuss trade issues that isn't necessarily appropriate for the average consumer to read.
Joe

We need a solid means by which to enforce the access rules to FlowerChat!! and we need a consensus of the membership, and the FlowerChat community as a whole!!
IF your decision is to allow ONLY referrals, then maybe that's the way to go, IF you feel that ONLY accredited industry insiders should be allowed, then if ALL members agree, then that's the way FlowerChat should go, and IF FlowerChat members FULLY agree, then I'm sure we can "lock down" the registration of participants, HOWEVER,
Remember that some of the greatest threats we have within the florist industry is because we cannot seem to agree on ANY consensus, and it's very much rearing itself in this thread.
This so called "agenda" of the "moderators" is ONLY because we CANNOT go off in 40 different directions, at someone's whim!!
We agree, FlowerChat should NOT be accessible to ANY of the general public, and ALL participants SHOULD be from within the industry ONLY, and we'd NEED a hundred of you, to go and literally volunteer your time and efforts to do a member by member verification of their credentials BEFORE any are approved for access to FlowerChat, and we NEED ALL INVOLVED to read the same play book!!
We attempt our best efforts...if ANYONE can be wrong, it'd be me...if NONE of you are wrong, I'll accept the blame for ALL your "issues".
Take your shots...Sandie says I'm a big target

 

[Eric S]

As I post this 91 votes out of how many members?

At this point it only looks like we are going to have 91 members once something is decided.

And honestly if there is restrictions placed it will be only 90 members.

 

[bloomz]

I think the real question on this string, is not the us against them idea. It's not about tenure. It about what kind of information do you want to be posted here.

Around this country, there are florists groups that meet once or twice a year to discuss openly problems and solutions that each of the members has faced. The idea being they can all learn from one another. If you look at these groups they are made up of peers, ie like businesses. The reason they are made up that way is so that the problems and solutions are applicable.

If you want this board to be an open forum for real brick and mortar florists who face similar problems and have to create similar solutions, then keep the hobbists out. If you wish to have a forum that babbles about items that are beggining level and that you have nothing to gain from, then open it to everyone, heck even consumers.

The result of each decision will be markedly different.

Very succintly stated.

I like this to be an exclusive club - it's the only way I personally am going to choose to openly share what I consider insider information and hard won experiences - things like costing, better customer service than "them", purchasing sources for esoteric items I'd like to have and them not, new customer aquisition and retention, marketing, selling tips and much more.

Call it the Professional Florists and Support Professionals Secret Sharing Society.

Gee doesn't that have a nice ring to it? :hammer:

 

[Mikey the Flower Guy]

As I post this 91 votes out of how many members?

At this point it only looks like we are going to have 91 members once something is decided.

And honestly if there is restrictions placed it will be only 90 members.

Eric..how many members TRULY represent the majority??...91, 491, 1000??...WHERE IS the consensus??

 

[Mikey the Flower Guy]

Call it the Professional Florists and Support Professionals Secret Sharing Society.
Gee doesn't that have a nice ring to it? :hammer:

Yes it does, and DO we have THAT many "secrets??"

 

[lori042499]

Long Post...Sorry in advance

My 2 cents,

I think that the current state of affairs was due to two posters who took things in the wrong direction, period... The poster who originally posted is just a lost young girl with hopes and dreams of having a wedding business with no experience what so ever, she is not a threat to anyone.

As for the two who took the posting to a place we would rather not go, you will have that some people are just confrontational whether in business or not..professional or not...this is just how they deal with things..As a matter of fact, I am amazed that in the past year of being a member, that I have not seen more of this as it happens on most boards because people are just confrontational.

Maybe this would not have happened if the people in question were dealt with differently, I'm not sure...I really don't think that we have too many big "secrets" here. There are a lot of good tips tech wise, but I think that the BB and ogs are already way ahead of any of us on that front and I think they pretty much have marketing tied up also. As for design tips, not really sure that will help them either,,, they are not interested...The only thing they can learn from here is how we think and that may be scary to some, because we do think differently. Not sure they can make any sense out of it if we can't even make sense out of our own ways of thinking.

One of the posters has made a public apology for the way she dealt with things, another still posting silly questions but people dealt with it maturely and she did not respond. I am sure she will move on. Not sure about the other involved, maybe she understands our intentions with the debates now, maybe not.

I, also, feel that sometimes people need to read a whole thread before weighing in. Some threads take a severely negative turn because someone makes a generalization instead of directing a post at a specific poster. I personally feel this leads to arguments. Also, not enough people use quoting in a thread when responding to a particular post within a thread, this also leads to people thinking a post is a general thread post and not one directed at a particular poster which leads to outside people getting in on an argument and it snowballs from there.

I myself could have saved myself alot of grief if I knew that I could ignore a poster. I knew that feature was available, however, I thought it only ignored PM's. I know that there is some bickering back and forth between some members like bloomz and 12bucks, but they keep it between themselves even though it is a public forum because they personalize the posts...eveyone knows it is between them and everyone knows to keep out of it...

After reading over the posts, seeing how things went so wrong this is what I came up with...I hope I didnt further offend anyone or misspeak. I don't think we have to not include anyone, I think we just need to be smarter....Thanks for reading my ideas, sorry it was so long....

 

[theRKF]

An Authoritative Answer

I have hesitated on participating in this discussion to this point, as I wanted to let the opinions of the membership play out. Now, I think it's time to clarify a few things.

The Bloomz persistence on this subject and his definition of "majority" have raised questions in my mind.

Let's remember it's one person's definite of majority that you're speaking of. That's one member who, like many, is a valuable contributor, but not a member of the admin team, headed by myself, that will make the final decision (and revise the process as necessary).

support an apparent agenda or justify a decision that I now suspect has already been made.

Go for it. Sounds like it's a done deal anyway. The tone of the supportive posts and the e-mail that I received yesterday have more than convinced me that this string and poll is just a smokescreen to justify what the "majority" of "tenures" has already decided.

I don't know who sent you the email or what their message or agenda was ... but nothing has been decided. We are listening to all opinions and taking all feedback. A decision will be forthcoming soon, but has not yet been made.

Having formed this opinion, which I'm sure will be ridiculed as radical by the Black Hats, after receiving a rather ridiculous e-mail from a FC Member after posting my opinion on this string, I'd guess that's exactly what you had in mind, anyway.

Radical opinions are a good thing That's why we love having you here. As someone's signature says: "If everyone is thinking the same thing, someone isn't thinking."

Was there an orrigional purpose, goal or defination in the creation of 'Flower Chat' that was available to all in writing?

FlowerChat is purposed as "The online Community for Floral Professionals." Traditionally this has incorporated florists (designers, business managers, owners and employees) and those related to the industry like wire service personnel, wholesalers, service providers (John Henry & BlueTree), and those with something to offer the industry.

According to Wikipedia a professional is:

A professional can be either a person in a profession (certain types of skilled work requiring formal training / education) or in sports (a sportsman / sportwoman doing sports for payment). Sometimes it is also used to indicate a special level of quality of goods or tools, sometimes also called 'commercial grade'.

While some might consider floristry a sport (contact sport at times!) and we certainly come across our share of tools in this industry (both commercial grade and otherwise), the key is that FlowerChat has been open to anyone working in the flower business (formally trained, educated or mentored) whether self-employed or an employee.

Yes, we have had our share of sub-par contributors. Relative to the quality of B&M florists across North America (I've seen lots of them) there are more pros here than there are people hanging a floral shingle at their door. Too many folks who buy a shop don't know step one about any aspect of the business.

My personal feeling, and here I do not speak for the admin team but as my own opinion, is that you cannot gauge professionalism based on the location of the business. Too many B&M shops are a disgrace, too many home-based designers are top-notch. My personal feeling is that a floral professional needs to be invested in the trade, earning (hopefully!) their income from the trade. This does not include a hobbyist who beings doing weekend work without a professional investment in preparation and education.

The Approval Process
Since there have been questions, let me address this issue.

1. I am the one who vettes registration applications.
2. There are many, many registrations that are never seen by the membership. Likely 1 in 10 are rejected outright as they are obviously not eligible.
3. Another large percentage do not pass the email verification test. Fake email? You're not getting in.
4. We do not allow Hotmail / Yahoo / etc email addresses. There has to be a measure of identifiability and accountability.
5. Applicants who register with incomplete info are rejected. However, there is little we can do to stop members from altering their profile information once they are approved. However, when we are alerted to incorrect or incomplete information in a profile the member is notified and given appropriate time to correct the info. After that, they are suspended.
6. We keep a log of all applications original registration info. Even if they do change it ... we have the data.
7. Yes, some people sneak through. We have to balance the security of FC with the accessibility. How many of you would have completed an 18 step process when you first registered? Consider that seriously, and be honest.
8. FlowerChat Members are great at sniffing out the rabble. When banned members or trolls or deceitful people do enter our community they are outted quickly and banned. There is no better policing force than an active and engaged community.

To close, the admin team are taking this issue seriously. We are debating different tactics and goals and will make known our decision once it is reached. Until then, anything you hear is rumour and speculation - nothing more.

Regards,

Ryan

PS - FlowerChat is hosted and operated by RKFdomains, a division of RKFcomputers - a home-based professional business.

 

[bloomz]

Those 2 coming out in the open just affirmed what some suspected was going on here. Or at least helped me to figure out why the number of useful posts was declining in relation to the noise ratio. Like I said - I never clicked into that home based marketing thread cuz I just guessed it was more noise. Now I'm glad I did cuz I see why there is so much noise here. I wonder what else useful I could have missed by overlooking threads based only on their titles? I'm a sponge for useful information and really love learning something new every single day.

I've talked several times with close friends about this for several months now. A few (good, knowlegeable, Professional Florists) have told me it isn't worth visiting here any more. It's been a reality that can't be denied.

 

[hcflorist]

Yes it does, and DO we have THAT many "secrets??"

Personally, I think it sounds more like a door slamming on a little kids' playhouse/clubhouse than anything else.

Secrets? Do we have that many? Don't think so. After all, this business isn't exactly rocket science.

Just exactly what is there to protect from prying eyes? As I and others have pointed out, nobody in their right mind is going to share a valuable trade secret on any forum, open or closed. The information that is being shared and has been shared and will be shared is pretty much public domain, no matter what a few egomaniacs might like to otherwise believe.

So what's the point? Do y'all just need a club to belong to or something?

 

[lori042499]

Those 2 coming out in the open just affirmed what some suspected was going on here. Or at least helped me to figure out why the number of useful posts was declining in relation to the noise ratio. Like I said - I never clicked into that home based marketing thread cuz I just guessed it was more noise. Now I'm glad I did cuz I see why there is so much noise here. I wonder what else useful I could have missed by overlooking threads based only on their titles? I'm a sponge for useful information and really love learning something new every single day.

I've talked several times with close friends about this for several months now. A few (good, knowlegeable, Professional Florists) have told me it isn't worth visiting here any more. It's been a reality that can't be denied.

Are you saying that some of what all of us post are trivial info??? I guess trivial info is all relevant to where you are in business,,, My info may be very trivial to some because I have a very small insignifigant business... So am I like those posters to some of the bigger shops...do some of my questions come off as rudimentary???

 

[sfox]

Really

Secrets? Do we have that many? Don't think so. After all, this business isn't exactly rocket science.

Wow, what a statement. You must be a couple million dollars a year business, just like everyone else. Oh, you're not, WHY? After all this business isn't exactly rocket science! It is so easy that everyone that enters becomes an instant success, by the way your post makes it seem.

 

[hcflorist]

The Approval Process
Since there have been questions, let me address this issue.

1. I am the one who vettes registration applications.
2. There are many, many registrations that are never seen by the membership. Likely 1 in 10 are rejected outright as they are obviously not eligible.
3. Another large percentage do not pass the email verification test. Fake email? You're not getting in.
4. We do not allow Hotmail / Yahoo / etc email addresses. There has to be a measure of identifiability and accountability.
5. Applicants who register with incomplete info are rejected. However, there is little we can do to stop members from altering their profile information once they are approved. However, when we are alerted to incorrect or incomplete information in a profile the member is notified and given appropriate time to correct the info. After that, they are suspended.
6. We keep a log of all applications original registration info. Even if they do change it ... we have the data.
7. Yes, some people sneak through. We have to balance the security of FC with the accessibility. How many of you would have completed an 18 step process when you first registered? Consider that seriously, and be honest.
8. FlowerChat Members are great at sniffing out the rabble. When banned members or trolls or deceitful people do enter our community they are outted quickly and banned. There is no better policing force than an active and engaged community.

To close, the admin team are taking this issue seriously. We are debating different tactics and goals and will make known our decision once it is reached. Until then, anything you hear is rumour and speculation - nothing more.

Regards,

Ryan

PS - FlowerChat is hosted and operated by RKFdomains, a division of RKFcomputers - a home-based professional business.

That's good. And it's ALL that's needed.

At least that's my "radical" opinion.

 

[hcflorist]

Wow, what a statement. You must be a couple million dollars a year business, just like everyone else. Oh, you're not, WHY? After all this business isn't exactly rocket science! It is so easy that everyone that enters becomes an instant success, by the way your post makes it seem.

No. Actually, we're rather small by big city standards. And that's exactly the way we like it and want to keep it.

But . . . before I retired at the age of 45 and got into this because I wanted something to do (guess that makes me a hobbiest in your eyes), I was in several businesses that did considerably more than a couple of million dollars a year, thank you very much.

Guess that's why I'm not too impressed with or intimidated by some of the super-egotists in this business who like to make themselves feel better by aiming their narrow viewpoints down their snotty little noses at others whom they perceive as smaller or somehow otherwise inferior.

 

[Mikey the Flower Guy]

I've talked several times with close friends about this for several months now. A few (good, knowledgeable, Professional Florists) have told me it isn't worth visiting here any more. It's been a reality that can't be denied.

Never knew my grandfather, but, my dad brought his saying from the old country.."a man that has no sense of belonging, has nothing to offer his family or the people around him".
All members of FlowerChat are family......ALL OF THEM.
YOU can pick and choose whom it is that you are enamored with......

 

[Mikey the Flower Guy]

No. Actually, we're rather small by big city standards. And that's exactly the way we like it and want to keep it.

But . . . before I retired at the age of 45 and got into this because I wanted something to do (guess that makes me a hobbiest in your eyes), I was in several businesses that did considerably more than a couple of million dollars a year, thank you very much.

Guess that's why I'm not too impressed with or intimidated by some of the super-egotists in this business who like to make themselves feel better by aiming their narrow viewpoints down their snotty little noses at others whom they perceive as smaller or somehow otherwise inferior.

SIZE only matters in ONE PLACE!!

 

[sfox]

wow

No. Actually, we're rather small by big city standards. And that's exactly the way we like it and want to keep it.

But . . . before I retired at the age of 45 and got into this because I wanted something to do (guess that makes me a hobbiest in your eyes), I was in several businesses that did considerably more than a couple of million dollars a year, thank you very much.

Guess that's why I'm not too impressed with or intimidated by some of the super-egotists in this business who like to make themselves feel better by aiming their narrow viewpoints down their snotty little noses at others whom they perceive as smaller or somehow otherwise inferior.

Wow, it must be nice to be independently wealthy and dapple with flowers as a past-time. I'm impressed. You must feel it's just too bad for those that work at this to make a living for themselves and their employees!

 

[BOSS]

I've talked several times with close friends about this for several months now. A few (good, knowlegeable, Professional Florists) have told me it isn't worth visiting here any more. It's been a reality that can't be denied.

I ass-u-me that they are most likely folks that did not participate or post much....

:buttkick <<<< Me kicking JB in his bad leg, with my bad leg :kuddle:

 

[Mikey the Flower Guy]

For those of you....

not yet involved in this thread, it IS the perfect opportunity to voice your views, and why democracy works best.
You witnessed some "extremes" here, and for very good reason....the posters to this thread, are very agitated and frustrated, that we cannot pass go, because we are NOT all moving in the same direction.
These very events blow apart political parties all the time, they blow apart friendships, and candidly they create anxiety, and fear amongst less aggressive people.
Every contributor to this thread has stated their case, and MOST of the reasons for attempting to MAKE their case, and though this is NOT a legal "trial" by any means, you MUST make your opinions heard. and you MUST read through ALL the posts, and you MUST be just as candid, and hard headed about what it is you are saying!!
I have the greatest respect for those that challenge the status quo, and I have the utmost respect for all that voice it.
This is a fantastic thread, one of the VERY BEST ever witnessed at FlowerChat,,,because of the very people involved, and because it comes from their heart!!

 

[Beth]

Oh goodness. After reading this thread (or most of it), I have to deduce that I really don't belong.

After working for 2 years in the field, I have moved on. I probably won't return tp floral any time soon. I have 4 kids to help support, 3 of them going to college in a year. I have to make the best money I can, and be home as much as I can, at the same time. I can't do that in floral... at least not with my current level of experience. I can see myself returning to a shop when my kids are all grown, but that will be at least 10 years from now, and I will be 62 then and even MORE tired than I am now. LOL

I know I don't have much to contribute. I have learned a lot from you, and I love this board, and I feel comfortable here. But the bottom line is I'm no longer in the field, and I really don't have much to offer. I believe I probably should quit the group. Good luck with setting whatever boundaries you need to keep the group pertinent and somewhat private. I support your efforts. I will miss you all here, but I understand your goals, and I feel that they are appropriate.

Hugs,
Beth :~)

 

[Mikey the Flower Guy]

:buttkick <<<< Me kicking JB in his bad leg, with my bad leg :kuddle:

you got "kitchen knee??"