Star Alliance

[GFLORAL]

I thought all the REAL FLORIST input was focused on having no rebates, ability to send direct and a change in the 80/20. What I am seeing is a similiar selection that is currently being offered by the other 2ws's. What am I missing?

Unfortunatly most real florists want the rebates, want the wire services to handle their order processing because they do not want to do it themselves. And the 80/20 split will be such a hard sell because wire services need florists to send orders and most of the florists want that 20%.

 

[Mikey the Flower Guy]

a little "correction"...

to that "G"...ALL OG's and "some" florists want the 80/20 split that you speak of! This system should be easy to simplify......90/10 split, and OG's would be required to "PAY" for their outgoing orders...in otherwords, remove the "costs" associated with incoming from order theives.
So, If you are a full service shop, a 90/10 split on your orders, If your are an OG with NO FULL SERVICE flower shop, a 90/10 split, and I AIN'T gonna pay anything towards your order!!
I KNOW some of you are gonna say 'but 1-800 FLWRS has real flowershops, HOWEVER, we NEVER get any orders from their REAL flowershops"!!

 

[GFLORAL]

to that "G"...ALL OG's and "some" florists want the 80/20 split that you speak of! This system should be easy to simplify......90/10 split, and OG's would be required to "PAY" for their outgoing orders...in otherwords, remove the "costs" associated with incoming from order theives.

I will be 100% honest with you, if I had to choose I would choose the 80/20 split. That is because we do more wire outs than wire ins. I will choose what is more profitable for my business. If I did more wire ins than wire outs then I would choose the 90/10 split. (Actually if my wire outs were less than what I am getting on my wire ins I would probably go direct 100% and keep the wire fee and the credit card bonuses.)

And see here is the problem. The shops that get more wire ins will sign up with the 90/10 split BUT because most florists want as many wire ins as possible they will stay with the 80/20 service also.

Then the shop that sends more out than gets in decides that they want that 20% so they do not join the 90/10 and still sends 80/20.

Along down the line the florist that joined the 90/10 service decides that they should drop that service because they are not getting any orders over it compared to what they are getting over the 80/20.

 

[BOSS]

I would like to think that eventually there will be a 100% based order transfer system in place, and that everyone will work on the service fee for sending, and realize full payment for recieving...in a perfect world.

However, since we do not live at Walgreens (Perfect) maybe a 90/10 gig could garner support, but of course that will require folks putting the money where their mouths are and standing up for what is in the best interests of the industry and the majority of the Real Florists.

Until the balance on the sending side is changed, there is little hope to kill the OG's and dot.CONS!

 

[Hal Conklin]

And a Happy New Year to you Also! Please do not be offended, I have questions and won't hesitate to throw them in your direction.I just want to make an intelligent decision You have always been upfront and honest and I don't think this will change! Sher

No offense at all !! I hope I answered all your questions on the phone call. Hope to see you next week while in Florida at Rob's.
HAL

 

[Mikey the Flower Guy]

it took 25 years...

to "create" this monster...we ain't gonna kill it with slingshots, overnight.
A few good men and women CAN tame these beasts though....

 

[BOSS]

A few good men and women CAN tame these beasts though....

Yep Mikey thats right, and THE place it'll come from is the FlowerChat NATION!

 

[Mikey the Flower Guy]

I gotta tell ya....

Yep Mikey thats right, and THE place it'll come from is the FlowerChat NATION!

I LIKE the sound of that..."FlowerChat Nation"

 

[Hal Conklin]

MAS Direct

I will be 100% honest with you, if I had to choose I would choose the 80/20 split. That is because we do more wire outs than wire ins. I will choose what is more profitable for my business. If I did more wire ins than wire outs then I would choose the 90/10 split. (Actually if my wire outs were less than what I am getting on my wire ins I would probably go direct 100% and keep the wire fee and the credit card bonuses.)

And see here is the problem. The shops that get more wire ins will sign up with the 90/10 split BUT because most florists want as many wire ins as possible they will stay with the 80/20 service also.

Then the shop that sends more out than gets in decides that they want that 20% so they do not join the 90/10 and still sends 80/20.

Along down the line the florist that joined the 90/10 service decides that they should drop that service because they are not getting any orders over it compared to what they are getting over the 80/20.

David, everyone needs to understand with MAS Direct you can charge any split you want with the florist if you choose not to support the wire services and deal direct with the florists. Its all in the setup. If they choose to support the wire service and want rebates so be it send and recieve em. Its all about independancy and choice. Its great because you can have the best of both worlds... Rebates and what ever percentage you workout with the florist and bypass the wire service.

 

[Blue Oyster Cult]

Hal

Its great because you can have the best of both worlds... Rebates and what ever percentage you workout with the florist and bypass the wire service.

So this is the answer to fixing the problem today? One can have the best of both worlds?

I have florists who participate on these boards who reject 100% of the money going to them using our 0-100 percent system and I'm to believe we can have the best of both worlds?

It's hard enough with the Tax Bullcrap these folks pull yet I just became a STAR. :hammer:

 

[flowerknife+us]

2 cents

It would appear that someones trying to do something for the Independent Florist. But does it go far enough? Or have legs?

I remember a time when being a Member of a Wire Service meant something. It provided basic accounting services, Made sure you recieved Money owed. Promoted it's membership. was active in the market place in creating demand. And keeping out the Riff Raff. Maintained a level of collective abilities to hold our services as desirable above those of our competitors.

Flowers, by themselfs, have NEVER held any value. Ever...Ever.

Actually, today their worth even less. They have actually gone down in relative value. Just look arround. Flowers are dirt cheap everywhere you look.

The Retail Florist always Did something with those cheap things and made something worth spending money on.

The Wire Service Promoted that consept and maintained that value.

I do not see, at this time, how or when this Group would enter into the realm of Ideas for the Consumers mind.

As for the split. It has never been a clean 80/20 split either, Ever...Ever.

A really clean 80/20 and low costs of service with rebates???

Makes me wonder who's really going to be paying me my rebate every Month?

Or

Who's going to help replace the number of Teleflora specials I sold this holiday.

That creating demand kind of thing.

How about changing the split to something like 78-5-17

A clean 78 to fill it. Not as much as you'd like, but better than what your getting now.

17 for sending it. Not what your getting now, but not too bad either.

5 for administrative and promotion.

Forget the rebates

Keep it clean and transaction expences low. Everyone benifits. sender and reciever. All those nickels - quarters on both sides of the order add up for everyone.

It's one thing to have Cheap, pay as you go type of fees. While expecting growth from expanded membership.But. Where does this thing go after you get all your going to get? Will it really make a difference in the Market place if all we do and recieve, is only the benifit of inexpensive sending and recieving?

If you keep the percentages clean. Then IMO, the 5% for marketing is worth investing for our collective benifit.

The reality being, that the re-bate is nothing more than a credit against other debits, membership creates. Rendering the debits lower may be sufficent to enable medium to larger senders to give up some of the credits. considering the credit isn't so large.( I must sound like a bleeding Democrat right now).

5% of socialism for 95% of Capitolism.

Creating demand in the market for what WE do is where the growth is.

It's NEW, Its BETTER, It's NOT avaliable to... Guess who.

Nothing is perfect, nor ever is, or will be. Making it better and more desireable is a worthy endevor. despite differences of opinion.

100% will never fly. When has 100% ever been 100% anyway?

 

[BBJ (Big Bad John)]

How about changing the split to something like 78-5-17

A clean 78 to fill it. Not as much as you'd like, but better than what your getting now.

17 for sending it. Not what your getting now, but not too bad either.

5 for administrative and promotion.

As it once was 77.5% - 5% - 17.5% and then....rebates that was the start of this mess after which we got FTO, QA plus plus plus all billed on the fillers side of the scale. The way it's going we will need to go from a 33% - 35% COG back in the 70's to 25% or less in the near future........dang it's no wonder the supper market flowers look so cheap, as I'm sure their COG is considerably more than 25% on flowers

 

[PhillyPhlorist]

OOOKkk.....

Being an EX-Floral Source member (as of Nov.30 2004) I can tell you that you DON'T get into that W/S for the INbound orders! We were only getting 5~7 orders a MONTH...2 stores...in a Major Market....

Oh, and I won't mention the fact that FSI is "holding" money owed to me for filling orders in October...say they need to "hold our account for 120 days to make sure everything settles and other florists have had time to report their orders"...OK, ... BUT WE NEVER SENT *ANY* ORDERS THRU FSI!!! THERE ARE NO ORDERS FOR A-N-Y-B-O-D-Y TO REPORT ON US!!! So, John C. gets to hold MY $ 'till...let's see, oh that would be AFTER VALENTINE'S DAY!!!
UGGHH.... <blood pressure meds in effect...>

Other thing...no 'tech' way to transmit orders with our sytem...THAT in itself was the primary reason FSI did not work for us. Not even a directory I could load in my system...was BURNED with an FSI order (bad dead-beat member) b/c of that (don't get me started again...).

NOW...give me a SIMPLE, tech way to transmit orders, at 80/20, or 90/10, etc., with a REASONABLE transmission charge (hey, I understand it costs $$$ to run a transmission system - note I did NOT say clearinghouse), and I'm on board. We SEND a lot more than we recieve...so, during that C-mas week or Mom's Day Week, I *must* be able to transmit orders electronically.

All the other things with Star All. is nice, but...do I need it??? Already HAVE most of it...

Anyway...I never totally rule things like this out, but I would need some more carrots to take a nibble at this one...

- H.

 

[ROBSWF]

Anyway...I never totally rule things like this out, but I would need some more carrots to take a nibble at this one...

- H.

Philly,

Philly, Very well said. It is amazing when you think about it that almost everyone’s shop has different needs. There are almost no two alike. That is one of the biggest hurdles ever encountered when someone has tried to take the retail flower shop nationwide in a chain. Every market is different. The key to a successful future for most is to take a good look at what your needs are keep or take advantage what is out there and cut away the bad.

 

[steve]

Rob you are correct that every shop is deferent in size and shape and it type of products sold. Those that belong to no wire service think that those that do are hurting the industry. and those that belong to wire services see the non wire florist as being to hard to deal with transaction wise and so on and so on.

Those that are regulars here know that I believe the florist to florist business is on a slow death march. Haveing said that I am still a large sender and at this moment and time it still works for me but I know it will not be working for me at some point down the road in 5 years or less. To me the key is to develope a new path of receiving our orders with out going though a wire service type operation that being a marketing group that has a national exposure on the web. the top 1000 florist with either wire service can not just walk away from those services without haveing replace the profit revenue that they generate from outgoing orders. we may need to have our feet in both the old ways and the new ways in order to migrate completely.

 

[CHR]

The Star Alliance is an interesing group that could have the potential to be a contender.

IMO, the future of the traditional retail floral industry lies not in the split of outs/ins but in selling and promoting the uniqueness, value and service that designed floral gifts bring to recipients - what your company uniquely provides.

As long as the focus is on transferring orders, with the WS licensed content permitted to be used by any marketer (florist or not), then it's still a game of parsing, poaching and redirecting based on an imbalanced model.

IMO, the need to transfer orders is best when driven by the services required by a business' own full-service customers - an extension of what one does locally which focuses on selling flowers instead of brokering services.

Whether this group goes that route remains to be seen.

 

[BOSS]

Those that belong to no wire service think that those that do are hurting the industry.

Some do, some don't, but the funny thing is that this is a new fangled idea that is only a couple years old and already some see this as the only way and it is not.

and those that belong to wire services see the non wire florist as being to hard to deal with transaction wise and so on and so on.

Unfortunately this seems to be true...many do not understand the concept of a straight 80/20, and then there are some that don;t get 100/0. In my area I have currently 37 florists that have "house accounts" with me, and I with them where we send/recieve at 80/20 and have for years, for the most part they are all either well established, or have worked with/for me over the years and get this type of "game", takes educating tho.

we may need to have our feet in both the old ways and the new ways in order to migrate completely.

Yep, exactly, yes sir, uh huh, right on, ditto, and over time, as the florist to florist biz continues to decline and more consumers go direct this is what it will take to migrate into the future...

 

[steve]

Dam Boss you and I are in complete agreement here now if we can get a few hundred more to be flexiable enough to agree we might get something done long term. There appears to be a lot of people viewing what is being written here but only a few of us that actually respond sure hard to read the minds of those that do not speak up.

 

[BOSS]

There appears to be a lot of people viewing what is being written here but only a few of us that actually respond sure hard to read the minds of those that do not speak up.

Yep again, tis truely the case... maybe they're just shy...

Were working on the FCmindreader program, but unfortunatley it only currently works on flat panel monitors that are larger than 17" with Harmon/Kardon Sprakers....a black key board and mouse and a number 2 pencil laying just above the Fkeys...

I'd like to again take this opportunity to encourage ALL FC members to participate and share your thoughts and ideas. I KNOW there is still stuff I could learn from many.

 

[Hal Conklin]

MAS Direct

I will be more than Happy to explain MAS Direct to anyone willing to listen. just give me a call. Its not the entire solution, its only part, however most complaints I'm hearing is what is the best equation, 80/20, 90,10 / whatever. The beautiful thing about it, is that you choose whatever you want with whoever you want... Rebates or not, Rebates or both, again its your choice...
Hal
PS. will be in Florida starting Thursday. I'll be available on cell till tuesday 11th