Star Alliance

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There is a difference between lack of vision and being....

blind to the future. This thread started out as an announcement about an alliance of vendors. Well, I've already said my piece about that. But it looks like the "dancing" has already begone for 2005.

It doesn't matter whether some florists only understand 20-80 or they feel they are going to lose too much money if they do anything differently. It doesn't matter whether florists understand why other florists are willing to send orders 0-100 and not worry about getting incoming. There is only ONE PROGRAM out there that is truely independent and has room for both commission programs. As for the comments about the sending and receiving systems not being compatible, I'm sorry but it is really those florists' problems and it is not the responsibility of the rest of us to solve it for you. This is no different than buying a Gillette razor and wanting Shick blades to work with it. Or buying track lighting from Home Depot and wanting to buy fixtures from Menards or Lowes. These companies did it to keep you as THEIR customer and so did the WS do the same thing. The problem is, as time goes on you will have less and less florists to send to with those systems as the costs continue to rise with the WS. The is only ONE INDEPENDENT reputable program that allows order transmission and may require double entry, but it is better than nothing right now.

For those of you that think that florist to florist transactions will gradually come to an end, you may be right. But with a little imagination and a communication system created just for florists, there is a way that real florists can provide a service superior to what is currently available and continue to service and charge for this service to there current customer base that will make it advantageous for them to continue to use the local florist. This will also be better for our industry that adding non-floral drop ship items no matter what the current profit margins are because as you help those companies grow, the first thing they will do is reduce those margins!

So you can continue to sit here in the back room with your feet up on the cracker barrel and discuss how you would change the world or you can continue to talk about how a life raft with a handleful of individuals floating around an open sea could possibly be your salvation or you can get behind the only program that has any chance to pull the industry back together again. For $40 you can join and you can list yourself as a 20-80 florist or a 0-100. If you don't send or receive 5 orders or more per month it doesn't cost you anything. The joke is, many of you are willing to spend up to $300 a month and have no idea how many discounted orders you are going to get or spend x dollars on a directory and again have no idea the volumn or lack of volumn that will result. The good thing is, the more florists you put into the data base the better the overall system is.

Again this year the internet authorities confessed that only 3% of all retail transactions are done over the internet. Yes Christmas was a busy internet holiday, but for the whole year we are still talking about 3%. That means tht 97% is still done at the local level and therefore florist to florist transactions will be around for some time to come.
 
Only One ?

Griff said:
There is only ONE PROGRAM out there that is truely independent and has room for both commission programs.
Which one is that ?

Griff said:
There is only ONE INDEPENDENT reputable program that allows order transmission and may require double entry, but it is better than nothing right now.
Which one is that ? Please enlighten us.
And yes this thread did start out as an announcement, and being that MAS was part of it, I wanted to clarify our part. We are still independant and you don't have to be affiliated with anyone in STAR Alliance to be a part of MAS, however there will be some benefits and we do believe their efforts for the retail florists are true. You mentioned reputable, please tell us who that might be, it may interest the real florists who elect not to use MAS.
Hal
 
Griff said:
There is only ONE PROGRAM out there that is truely independent and has room for both commission programs.
I assume you are not talking about MAS...but MAS IS independant remember!

The way I (Advantage user) understand it, is with MASdirect you have the ability to send not only traditional wire service orders at the current 73-20-7% but also to any other florist at ANY percentage breakdown you and the other florist work out.

Thusly as MASdirect spreads (and it will) you could have as many different percentage breakdowns as you do florists that you deal with. FLorist A might be 95/5%, florist B 90/10, florist C-D & E might be 100/0% and then florist F may be the traditional model with rebate.
 
Griff when they say 3 percent of all purchases they were not talking just flowers they were talking all products sold on the web. I do not have the floral percentages to quote from but I am sure one of the readers on this board will have it. And I know its a much larger number then 3 percent?
 
Glad to see you are finally AWAKE!

No, I'm not talking about MAS. MAS is a computer system. I'm talking about a program. I'm talking about IFA's program. Many of you keep trying to negotiate the commission numbers and it really doesn't have any bearing. There are only 2 commissions that matter - where most florists are now 20-80 and where the florists need to get to 0-100. IFA has a way to merge both those two and no one else does.

It is about florists getting paid when they do the work. Not 30 days later or not when some "middleman" decides they can afford to pay you as Pilly has pointed out.

It is about being able to send orders from a Dell, HP or Gateway computer and not a special hybrid. It is about OWNING your own sending devise, not leasing. It is about directories being available electronically and not on paper. It is about being able to upgrade florist information within 24 hours, not 45 days.

The comments from florists should be how can we help, not that I can't commit right now because my computer won't connect to their system. MAS can't connect to everyone either. They can hook to FTD, FSI and to other MAS users. Hell, FTD or TF can't hook to everyone either!

To join the alliance, it is $40 a month plus the cost of the book. IFA is $40 to join and that includes the book.

If I offended anyone, I'm sorry. Enough dancing. If this is truely the year of the retail florist, then it is time to see some action. If your personal agenda doesn't agree with what I have just said, that's fine. There is never going to be a perfect solution for any florists. There is always going to be some compromises along the way. The question is going to be is by business going to be better off if I change now or can I hold off for a year or two and hope this all blows over.

Well, what do you think? Do you really think your have 2 years or even 1 year??
 
steve said:
I do not have the floral percentages to quote from but I am sure one of the readers on this board will have it. And I know its a much larger number then 3 percent?
A little over 6% of all flower purchases are made on the web...as of September Y2K4
 
Griff said:
The question is going to be is by business going to be better off if I change now or can I hold off for a year or two and hope this all blows over.

Well, what do you think? Do you really think your have 2 years or even 1 year??
I don;t think it's going to "blow over" this time around!
 
Remember that...

this "storm" of discontent has been brewing for some time now, and although everyone,INCLUDING myself is looking for a different model, ALL we are asking for is a way to be properly compensated for what we do.
Look, we can't be stupid about this whole thing...FTD, TF, Star Alliance, or some other animal doesn't really "address" the problems we are facing in the industry.
What I see here, is a "protectionist" tide swelling, and I can tell you, this is BAD, REALLY BAD, for the florist industry!!
Florists need to be trained AND accountable, to this industry.
Order thieves need to learn to "trade" between themselves IF they think they can bypass the traditional REAL FLORIST.
Software/POS vendors need to realize that the BULK of the REAL FLORIST shops are not in a position to deflect significant percentages of their gross to PC platforms that just offer "overkill" in their marketplace.
Not ONE package offers resolutions to most/all florist shops, so, the natural instinct is to "withdraw".
The wire services have overstepped their boundries, WAYYYY over their boundries, and STILL want us to feel POSITIVE about what they offer.
I AGREE....we need to feel that OUR issues have been addressed, yet, every time someone comes along with a possible "solution" they are oppressed and shot, before having a chance to provide solutions, so folks, we are in deep sheepshi.t...no one trusts anyone, and we are ALL on the canyon of abyss.
Though Blue Mikey has the right idea, dump everyone, and move on, it's NOT that simple...for most of us, because we still have this "inheirited" need to be able to transfer orders, it's become a natural part of our business!!
SOON, our customers will almost ALL send their orders on their own....next 5 years will see a 90% increase of client direct orders, whether by phone, fax, or PC, and the WS are dead, as we know them...there is NO USE fighting over this...so, let's solve our inhouse problems, train our new generation to be professional, and gain our local share of a growing marketplace
 
Mas Direct

Griff said:
No, I'm not talking about MAS. MAS is a computer system. I'm talking about a program. I'm talking about IFA's program. Many of you keep trying to negotiate the commission numbers and it really doesn't have any bearing. There are only 2 commissions that matter - where most florists are now 20-80 and where the florists need to get to 0-100. IFA has a way to merge both those two and no one else does.

It is about being able to send orders from a Dell, HP or Gateway computer and not a special hybrid. It is about OWNING your own sending devise, not leasing. It is about directories being available electronically and not on paper. It is about being able to upgrade florist information within 24 hours, not 45 days.
Thanks for the clarification griff. Now I will clarify MAS. Yes MAS is a computer system. Also its a communication tool, stand alone if need be without ANY INTERVENTION FROM ANY ASSOCIATION our directories are updated the minute a new user joins.. Our MAS Direct "only" Fees are cheaper than any other communication device and also will be more effective and efficient with "LIVE" to second info about YOUR CUSTOMERS order.. MiniMAS operates without a server and needs only a PC and Printer as does MAS DIRECT. MiniMAS "the Business system comes with MAS DIRECT so therefor you get 2x the power at half the cost. We can skin this cat every which way, but the bottom line is MAS and the alliance want the best for retail florists. You pick and choose. I'm glad you are least behind change. Thanks, Hal
NO OFFENSE TAKEN !!
 
florists saw online revenue grow 59 percent

steve said:
Griff when they say 3 percent of all purchases they were not talking just flowers they were talking all products sold on the web. I do not have the floral percentages to quote from but I am sure one of the readers on this board will have it. And I know its a much larger number then 3 percent?



Jewelry sales more than doubled, jumping 113 percent to $1.9 billion, while florists saw online revenue grow 59 percent to $530 million
http://www.macworld.com/news/2005/01/04/online/index.php
 
Internet numbers

Sorry BOSS, but I can't help question the 6% number you just posted. If 50% of all flowers are purchased by consumers through grocery stores and massmerchandisers based on the last survey I saw, and being that neither of these on selling flowers over the internet, then the remaining 50% of flowers purchased is through the florists. That means that every florist in the country would have to show a 12% volumn of business generated by the internet.Don't think so. One other possibility is that the numbers are being generated by ordergathers. The problem here is the chance of a double count as ordergathers past the order through a wire service and they count it again. Otherwise the numbers make no sense.

Secondly, Mickey, I too have a problem with trusting anyone these days. It is the prime reason I called out orders for over 2 1/2 years before even considering another possibility. I just feel it is time to get behind someones cart and start pushing. Staying with any wire service for any reason was not a consideration for me. THEY are a major part of the problem and they negitively affect us in more ways than most of us really understand.
 
Response to Mlou

Thanks for the numbers. I ask again that you look at these numbers with some caution. Please note these are only the numbers for Nov and Dec. Please also note they are assuming that much of this increase is due to possibly lower prices over the internet. Going back to my original comment, over a full 12 months, the National Retail Association has stated that internet retail sales for the 2004 year is still at about 3% and it has been there for at least the last 5 years. If you ask anyone in the jewelry business, they will tell you that Christmas and Valentines are the best seasons for them. The electronics industry is definately at Christmas time and they predicted months ago this was going to be a very big Christmas for electronics. We all know how much discounting is being done with flowers on the internet. None of these are big surprises.
 
Ah my friend Mikey

You mentioned "Though Blue Mikey has the right idea, dump everyone, and move on, it's NOT that simple...for most of us, because we still have this "inheirited" need to be able to transfer orders, it's become a natural part of our business!!"

A: Believe me Mikey after 45 years of our family business belonging to the clubs we felt 'what do we have to lose?' If it wasn't going to work for us, then who said we couldn't rejoin in on the fun again???? I get a visit every now and then from a Rep who want's us so bad to join up at Cheap Membership fees but I believe in staying the course and making a difference to our $$$$ and our customers $$$.

I'm just one Florist who took a chance/change to get back to the industry of FLOWERS which provided us with a living without having to pay a company vendor who allows the OG and their problems to infiltrate my Well Being.

Do I hate the WS'S? No, but when I see they cannot help my business model based upon their new vision of ME FIRST then what good does it do for my business and industry? There are plenty of ways for consumers to order flowers but I decided that I will not be on a list of FILLERS within the WS'S.

If I need an order to Dundes? sorry about the (sp) I will call you with the order and give you a valid CC number at 100% money today to be processed on your CC terminal.

Going Independent is not for everyone but it's a start.
 
and MAKE SURE...

you use my toll free number when you call.....after 45 years in the biz, I'd expect you have some experience...dang!!..you must be an OLD GUY :)
Funnin aside...the wire services have a HUGE vested interest in "distributing" orders, and didn't count on the likes of Blue Mikey coming along any time soon!
Boss said it best, when he re-iterated that, THIS TIME, this AIN'T going away,meaning REAL FLORISTS are ALSO GENUINELY paying attention for a change!!
 
Griff said:
Sorry BOSS, but I can't help question the 6% number you just posted.
No need to be sorry sir... I'm at home now, but Wednesday I will post the results of the full study done for the mass market side of the biz where this number came from.

If I remember right, the 6% is not a percentage of sales, but of the dollars spent on cut flowers, not including any plants and such that may be included in other numbers...considering the cheap prices at both groceries and on the net....maybe...

til tomorrow....
 
Mikey here is the story..

I first got pricked in my A S S when I was about 9 months old in 1960 by sitting down? or falling down in diapers on a Cactus plant in store while my Father watched in horror? or Laughter?. It must have been like the Three Stooges with Mom and Pop pulling out the prickers out of my butt with plyers?!!!LOL! true story.

When our shop which is attached to the house MY Family has grown up in came into play......well I quess the blood of the FAMILY Business would not go away. My O My we have seen it ALL....

Can you believe 45 years of a Mom and Pop Shop? and now were going back to the BASICS like in the days of OPENING.

:dunno: 2004 was sure interesting without a WS yet we had no problem with the so called calling out orders. Sales Total was the same the only thing missing was the part about 60 cents on the dollar orders.

I'm back Mikey! and I proved that one doesn't need http://abbottsflorist.com to advertise in my phone book when they are located in TEXAS

P.S. sorry about the tread drift...we ALL do it!
 
Ok back to the Star Alliance

I just want to know from Marlee Just and others why my membership into ETFA via the Sunflower Productions Web Site did not include us into this Alliance foundation press release dated January 01, 2005.

I talked to Marlee about 10 months ago and told her that were INDEPENDANT and we liked the Sunflower site since we have CONTROL to upload our Product and pictures but now it smells like another means of a traditonal model of a wire service with FSI on board.


Sunflower Productions (ETFA) missed the boat with not sleeping with IFA. It was there for the Betterment of OUR INDUSTRY yet we end up with vendors who still need OLD MATH SYSTEMS because that's the way REDBOOK did it.
 
Power in Numbers?

Power In Numbers

There has been so much talk lately of bringing about change to our industry. In fact there has never been a more serious need for change than the present. We are loosing our market share. Retail florists are dropping in units. Units = Frequency. This is the sign of what is called “Slow Death†in business. Alliances are forming, people are choosing sides, shops are becoming independent. These are all very necessary to bring about change.

Is there a way that an alliance could consist of all the independent companies offering services to the industry? Everyone has something to offer. Would we as florists welcome a United Nations of sorts type environment? An alliance of florists and support companies committed to rebuilding an industry in trouble together, as one. Under one umbrella, organized, committed and strong enough to accomplish realistic goals. An alliance that brings value to all with national buying power for products, services and supplies. An alliance for the most part that is able to communicate freely with each other and actually get things done. Are we all committed enough to do something like this?

Are we are on a path of dividing ourselves even further? We have strength in numbers. Are we becoming nothing more than an industry in a Civil War? If so, in the end there will be no clear winner. Just fragments of what once was. There are some very creative minds here. The floral industry is growing. Americans are buying more flowers than ever before. The problem is they are not buying them from florists. We must stabilize this trend and then work on rebuilding. We can accomplish this by creating consumer demand for flowers from florists by advertising. We can become more competitive with a national buying group. We can become more consistent through education. We can become more diversified by utilizing the resources available through independent companies bringing their products and services before us.

The time is now for an alliance of retail florists. Motivated, results orientated, organized, and committed to rebuilding an industry in distress.

An alliance of few will target some. An alliance of many will be heard by most. An Alliance of most will effect All.

Can this be done? Or am I in a pipe dream? I ask you, what would it take?
 
An alliance that brings value to all with national buying power for products, services and supplies. An alliance for the most part that is able to communicate freely with each other and actually get things done. Are we all committed enough to do something like this?

I spoke last week about us forming a national buying/ marketing group these have been formed in other industries and have worked. And I believe it can work in this industry and probably has to be part of an overall solution. Buying groups can not only help you get better pricing but they can obatin rebates based on total purchase from a vendor by all memebers of that group. and those rebates can be used to underwrite the marketing required to build the brand recognition.
 
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