Teleflora's new "cookie cutters"

[CHERYL BAKIN]

RC:
1. No
2. Yes - actually better

Ricky:
See Darell's post above. These are the basic reasons why I carry & sell the TF cookie cutter images on my site.

also, Like many others, I am photography challenged. Learning, but not there yet.

another reason is TIME. when we are pumping to get 30 pieces out the door in the next hour, stopping to mess for 10 to 20 minutes with a "lovely" piece & get a "great" photo is just not possible.
Time is money...........

Last, while the images in the TF and Floral Management magazines can be scanned, again time is an issue. One of the Magazines (Florist Review, I think) has now offered some of their images on a CD for use on websites. We are exploring using these in the near future.

Again though, we will need to load, give a name and a description, price it, etc. Not a simple or easy task in a Time-challenged environment! (that's the kind of stuff I am usually doing at 11 pm or so at night........)

so, the quest goes on....

Cheryl

 

[Joe Mioux]

Randy and others.

you make a good point regarding establishing signature designs, but that is only part of issue.

I think many shops can make their own signature recipe designs, but the problem is many shops lack the volume of business to make it a worth while endeavor on an everyday basis.

I would imagine that in order to truly capitalize on this type of marketing, a shop would need to be doing over $3million in sales.

Most shops simply don't have the volume of business to justify a full blown marketing campaign every week.

Therefore, these types of shops must rely on national Ws marketing/ designs and or picking - cafeteria style - certain arrangements that they think will be successful.

joe

 

[bloomz]

As a continuation of what I posted earlier - The new TFWEB specials "cookie cutters" are touted as "PROVEN BEST SELLERS" I really want your opinions and commentary on what factors go to make an arrangement a "PROVEN BEST SELLER"?

Sales, and marketing research - these gorillas spend millions discovering what the public wants, then executing it.

Clue here: They don't ask the florists what they like.....

as said earlier, their research shows that florists do not know very well what the public likes (heretofore-buys) Most florists for instance think the public prefers a mixed arrangement over a monofloral and the research I saw from FTD showed less than 30% do.

Could this be why Proflowers is horking our sales like there is no tomorrow?

I really am trying to learn here....If one of the reasons for using WS images over another source is quality of the photographs......what about professional pictures from other sources.....like the John Henry selections......or the collection of arrangement images from Florist Review.....just to name a couple.

Arrangements from an industry publication.....like Flowers& from Teleflora for instance.....or Florists Review could be scanned, edited with photoshop or another editing program, and placed on a website.

They would still be professional photographs of quality designs, just not WS designs.

What's the difference? They're still "somebody else's" work.

Not your own unique to your shop arrangements.

Which I think are the "dirty words" up in here from several. I think wire service images take the heat cuz of wire service hatred is all.

(I'm not trying to be a smartass, I'm just being me. - The smartass) :handball:

And, you put forth a couple good ideas above for alternate image sources, (but they still fit that definition of cookie cutters).


We had professionally shot for Twila's portfolio (back when you still had to do them) I think it was 6 or 9 arrangements. Cost was, if I remember right, $950. Over $100 per arrangement.

Somebody's already spending long green to do this - I'm for availing myself of both the market research and the professional photography.

So - I had an experience today about service being more important than product I will post in another thread.

 

[LJVF]

I am glad you are asking that question Randy.

I remember reading an article that had an interview with Rich Salvaggio who admitted that the photographs of arrangements are not always what the completed real life arrangement will look like.

IIRC - the arrangement in question was Valentine design....the container was a small bubble bowl with pink and red hearts on it. The picture showed a tightly massed design with only about 6 stems in the bowl. The flowers pictured were more than 6 stems of material. It was told that the flowers were arranged in a small saucer SITTING on top of the bowl with only a few stems placed in the bowl. This was done so that the details of the container were showcased.

For those who use WS images......How do you justify a deceptively showcased design......one that is pictured differently than the recipe would present?

This goes against the philosophy of many here, but I actually price a large number of my cookies higher than the wire services do and they still sell. I feel that I am able to exceed the expectations of my customers from what I have pictured. It is a case of "under promise and over deliver".

 

[RC in Dayton and Cincinnati]

Isn't it a problem when a florist is selling a wire service design, possibly using twice the number of flower as the recipe calls for to make a nice looking arrangement, while his competitors, mainly OGers, are selling from the same picture but are also selling using the inadequate recipe and inadequate pricing?

 

[CHERYL BAKIN]

To concur with JB's post.....

We are regular participants in the TF survey program rregrding marketing containers. Just did one for VD day 2010 and recently for Christmas 2010.

WE ARE RARELY ASKED ABOUT THE FLOWER ARRANGEMENT -- USUALLY ONLY ABOUT THE CONTAINER.

There was a time, about 12 or so years ago, that we were asked about both -- and asked to rate how we thought OUR CUSTOMERS would react to certain containers and arrangements.

I know they poll people (not florists) for the same kind of information.

The point is that they select a container.
They put a LOT of research & marketing effort into the container.
They have input into what the CONSUMER is willing to buy, and at what price point.

They have apparently done a lot of prior research on what the consumer is wiling to spend on a given holiday gift. My guess is that they is going to change somewhat because of the current state of the economy.

Bottom line, It's about the ultimate SRP to the consumer -- that will most often drive what is featured.

Cheryl

PS:
In today's world, we need to step back from the bench & ask ourselves WHAT DOES THE CONSUMER WANT TO BUY, AND WHAT IS HE/SHE WILLING TO SPEND. By & Large, it is NOT a mixed arrangment in a vase. Often it is monochromatic, and monofloral, especially to the under 40 age group.

Look at who your customers are, keep a running track (on a tablet paper for a two week period) of what arrangements sold well in your store. (by description or by a specific number). Factor in to the equation if this is a holiday or a non-holiday week -- or anything else special going on in your community.
Calculate how much they spent, on an average, per arrangment (excluding tax and delivery and any add-ons).

The answers of what is a "proven best seller" will become readily apparent.

 

[CHERYL BAKIN]

Randy:
As you have already established, everyone has their own COGS formula. B...ut not everyone has the same buying power as you. (Many of us are getting better, though).

I think you will find that most florists will not cheat the receiver of the gift -- they will tend to make it look like the picture......if not better.

If the arrangement calls for an all around arrangement, the florist tends to send out an all arround arrangement.

Maybe we all subscrbe, (Toto would call us stupid fools) to the honorable, long established way to fill orders......and that is to full value!

Cheryl

 

[Joe Mioux]

Isn't it a problem when a florist is selling a wire service design, possibly using twice the number of flower as the recipe calls for to make a nice looking arrangement, while his competitors, mainly OGers, are selling from the same picture but are also selling using the inadequate recipe and inadequate pricing?

Local work doesn't get sold from the FSG's

F2F stuff sometimes does. and the OG stuff gets sold from all sorts of sources; FSG, OG's own custom arrangements, the WS's website arrangements that do not appear in FSG, etc.

If I can fill the order exactly and make money then yes I will go that route.

if the arrangement is deceptive and I need to make the arrangement as th customer envisioned I will do so, but only if it doesn't cause me to not make a profit.

joe

 

[Tuberose]

I was told many moons ago that the wire services are mainly providing arrangements that (supposedly) any florist could replicate, regardless of their ability and that are also quick to make. Look at them now, all the new ones are roundy moundy, takes no talent to make those. The average consumer is forced to choose from a few set arrangement styles with cookie cutters, safer that way for wire services. One of the few TF images I really like and can sell numerous high end arrangements from is no longer offered on the TF site, tf55-1. It's not your everyday cookie cutter.

If unifloral is the going thing why aren't 70% of my wire ins for that type of arrangement? Why aren't 70% of my local orders unifloral? I may get an occasional daisy bowl, doz carns or doz roses, but that's it.

Trish

 

[RWK]

A slightly "off-topic" question, but also on topic - The thread title refers to TF designs as "cookie cutters" - Why is that?

Cookie cutter to me is a method of production. If I have a fantastic, money-no-object wedding, and the centerpeices are composed of ten eiffel tower vases with 100 stems of white dendros in each vase, and their are 500 tables - I better make those arrangements one after the other - cookie cutter fast -

We just completed another Valentine's day holiday - We all cookie cutter produced dozen roses after dozen roses after dozen roses.

Why do you all apply the term "cookie cutter" to those designs?

-----------------------------------

Also, to answer JB's post - Yes, You are right in the fact that arrangements designed from John Henry, or the design industry magazines are someone elses design - but they also showcase designs out of the ordinary. Is that good or bad?

 

[LJVF]

I was told many moons ago that the wire services are mainly providing arrangements that (supposedly) any florist could replicate, regardless of their ability and that are also quick to make. Look at them now, all the new ones are roundy moundy, takes no talent to make those. The average consumer is forced to choose from a few set arrangement styles with cookie cutters, safer that way for wire services. One of the few TF images I really like and can sell numerous high end arrangements from is no longer offered on the TF site, tf55-1. It's not your everyday cookie cutter.

If unifloral is the going thing why aren't 70% of my wire ins for that type of arrangement? Why aren't 70% of my local orders unifloral? I may get an occasional daisy bowl, doz carns or doz roses, but that's it.

Trish

Trish, I'm looking at all the new "WEB" items. To me they are with the "times", attached are a few examples. Are these considered "roundy moundy's"? Perhaps they are, but with a modern twist. These do sell.

 

[RWK]

Trish, I'm looking at all the new "WEB" items. To me they are with the "times", attached are a few examples.

Notice how all of those pictured designs are composed of at least three or more different ( mixed ) varieties of flowers?

Mixed arrangements - Do they sell better or worse than monofloral arrangements?

 

[LJVF]

Notice how all of those pictured designs are composed of at least three or more different ( mixed ) varieties of flowers?

Mixed arrangements - Do they sell better or worse than monofloral arrangements?

In my store the mixed sell better than the mono, but I am seeing an upward trend in monofloral. Tulips and sunflowers are good example.

All my recent email campaigns have been targeted toward monofloral designs as well.

 

[CHERYL BAKIN]

Ricky:
Mixed vs. Monofloral or monchromatic??

Depends upon the occasion.

Mother's Day 2008, The polka Dot & posie arrangment was on our website, and our brochure. (The rectangle with the polka dot ribbon).
It was cute, clean and fun. Easy to make. We sold cases of the things....and at good price points!! Kids like giving Moms daisies because they are a long lasting flower. It had roses in it, and it was in a "mom" color (pink & white). Design was low & tight, so it appealed to the younger generation. Mom liked it because it was not HUGE -- she could put it on her breakfast table & enjoy it! At Mother's Day, you are satisfying the GIVER as well as the RECEIVER!!


The cube called uniquely chique -- great seller. I think the appeal to this one is the bright, bold colors, and cub design, as well as the name. It's trendy and new). Again, a good price point.
this one is most often chosen because the GIVER likes the color combo.

The basket of Light from our sympathy page is often chosen because it is a DIFFERENT SHAPE. Doesn't look like a regular, traditional symp piece. We sell it as something different. We sell it all white, or we will make it in colors for you.

Just a few examples of what the MARKETING gurus go thru in deciding what is a good seller, and worthy of promotion....and what is not.

Do you or I have the time, each & every day, to do this kind of polling & figuring out? Most florists do not.

Cheryl

 

[Rhonda]

as I watch this debate going around and around I definitely see a diverse market for smaller town vs city/urban areas. My small town customers (and those sending into this small town) prefer substance. Value perception is still utmost in their minds. I offer what the "experts" consider as hip and modern. My customers prefer homestyle and bang for their buck.
Cookie cutters don't work in this small town. Individual tastes and substance is what we are asked to do.
Thanks for the heated debate though..........

 

[Carol Bice]

What an outstanding thread this has been. There are two sides to all issues and I have enjoyed hearing them both.

Since I was on a design team for new products several years ago...I just want to add my 2 cents.

You cannot believe how much thought goes into each flowers, filler, style, color, containers, etc. One simple little bouquet can take 2 or 3 days to complete and get photographed. Not many florists have that kind of time to devote to making their own specials and doing all the logistics that make it salable. For the most part, I think it is possible to use those cookie cutter designs instead of reinventing the wheel everytime you make a bouquet.

And I say this knowing it goes aginst the type design work I truly love to do. But common sense should rule if you want to make money.

Carol Bice

 

[LJVF]

as I watch this debate going around and around I definitely see a diverse market for smaller town vs city/urban areas. My small town customers (and those sending into this small town) prefer substance. Value perception is still utmost in their minds. I offer what the "experts" consider as hip and modern. My customers prefer homestyle and bang for their buck.
Cookie cutters don't work in this small town. Individual tastes and substance is what we are asked to do.
Thanks for the heated debate though..........

I think there's a lot to what you're saying Rhonda, it makes a lot of sense.

 

[CHERYL BAKIN]

.


You cannot believe how much thought goes into each flowers, filler, style, color, containers, etc. One simple little bouquet can take 2 or 3 days to complete and get photographed. Not many florists have that kind of time to devote to making their own specials and doing all the logistics that make it salable. For the most part, I think it is possible to use those cookie cutter designs instead of reinventing the wheel everytime you make a bouquet.

And I say this knowing it goes aginst the type design work I truly love to do. But common sense should rule if you want to make money.

Carol Bice

Thanks Carol for making this so clear from an experienced perspective!

What Carol conveyed so well, and many of us have been trying to do in this thread, is to emphasize all the hard work, effort, etc it takes to get good photos on your website, and in your brochures.

And before the photos, the research that goes into creating the design.

We choose to use the "cookie cutter" arrangements because at least part of the work -- the marketing research, the sourcing of products, the actual making of the product & taking of the photos -- has been done for us. All without us ever having to lift a finger(maybe type on a computer keyboard)

As a WS member, part of my dues goes to pay for this effort.

From way back in my memory bank in business school, we were quoted the time frame to adequately research and test the market with a new product. The time frame was about 1 year.

Think about it. Do you, as a small floral shop owner, have a year of your time and efforts to devote to the marketing of just 1 product in your line-up of products? I know that i don't.

But, as always, opinions will vary......
Cheryl

 

[bloomz]

. But common sense should rule if you want to make money.

Carol Bice

Oh that pesky darn common sense.

The bane of we creative people! :yourock:


However, I've heard it said that selling cookie cutters makes it possible to do the other stuff we love to do - on occasion.....


But you know...

opinions vary

as does common sense

 

[Carol Bice]

Oh that pesky darn common sense.

The bane of we creative people! :yourock:


However, I've heard it said that selling cookie cutters makes it possible to do the other stuff we love to do - on occasion.....


But you know...

opinions vary

as does common sense

Bloomz, you said it all.... COOKIE CUTTERS DO MAKE IT POSSIBLE TO DO THE OTHER STUFF WE LOVE TO DO --on ocassion.

Carol Bice