Teleflora's new "cookie cutters"

[CHR]

Since I was on a design team for new products several years ago...I just want to add my 2 cents.

Me, too.

You cannot believe how much thought goes into each flowers, filler, style, color, containers, etc.

And when you and I were 'doing it' the marketing departments cared about input from florists in the trenches. Not any more, especially with regard to retail selling price and margins.

These days, I look at what's being featured in national products and source holiday flowers they don't use. Why? Because the minute a flower is featured in a national special, florist demand goes up, price goes up and quality drops by 50%. Witness red & pink spray roses for this past V Day. They're usually one of our best values, but this year the price was up 50% and the bloom sizes were half the size of last year's. Just not worth it.

When you drive your own products, you have a greater opportunity to feature better values at lower COGS with higher quality materials during a holiday. Customers win, you win. Better value, better quality, better margins. Plus more $ in the flowers and less in the over-priced, freight-charged-stuffed containers.

 

[CHR]

Isn't it a problem when a florist is selling a wire service design, possibly using twice the number of flower as the recipe calls for to make a nice looking arrangement, while his competitors, mainly OGers, are selling from the same picture but are also selling using the inadequate recipe and inadequate pricing?

Amen!

Are these considered "roundy moundy's"? Perhaps they are, but with a modern twist. These do sell.

IMO, they sell because they fill a thumbnail photo better than a tall arrangement.

Bet you $500 casino cash if you line those up with the same flowers made into tall designs in your shop, real live humans seeing the real products would overwhelmingly choose the taller designs dollar for dollar.

The basket of Light from our sympathy page is often chosen because it is a DIFFERENT SHAPE.

My experience was that the design was selected based on price (under $50 SRP) and color (white) - but most shopper have no idea how small it really is.

"One small wicker basket with handle arrives filled with white carnations, larkspur and roses."
The TF.com description says 'roses', not 'spray roses' and the recipe is significantly undercounted. The COGs for most shops to recreate the arrangement like the picture would be more than $15 and likely closer to $20. (basket, liner, foam, curly willow, lemon, italian ruscus, white lark, carns, mini carns, and a full bunch of spray roses.)

We removed it from our site and shot our own version to avoid disappointment and/or lack of decent margin. Same with http://www.teleflora.com/funeral-flowers/celebration-wreath-34947p.asp which looks large in the web photo but is a paltry 15" in diameter - and a disappointment at the ready. (Yes, the size is on the image, but customers don't read.)

My experience is that many of those best sellers are under-priced and list less stems in the recipes than what it actually takes to make them.

 

[bloomz]

Solution to all that is so simple it plum be eluding you.

Price them higher!!!

 

[lori042499]

Lori - Are the arrangement names you mentioned WS designs or are they your original designs?

Which sell better for you ? WS designs or your original designs - Why do you think one sells better over the other one?

The ones listed are TF designs, I have my own designs up on the web but have only ever sold one...not sure why..I would imagine that the price points are what sells the ones listed, but people are drawn to them specifically..I don't like any of them much especially the gentle thoughts spray, I hate the colors, I think it is small, I was afraid I would get complaints on it, but over the 3 years I have probably done 50 of these and never got one complaint...

I will say that in the past I have always taken pictures of arrangements that I thought were special or different rather than my everyday designs...this may be my problem with my own stuff. Generally the items are on the higher price side and using fancier flowers making them less full than most of the "proven best sellers". I did make up some smaller price point arrangements for my web page but still have not sold any...

I do have more funeral work pictures to work on in lesser price points to put up there to try them...I do sell more funeral work on the web than anything and this may be the very problem...Most of my everyday web orders are called over the phone and people are interested in one thing but then often time go with something else that I sell them over the phone...

I secretly hate the web and what it has done to our businesses, I personally thing it has made business easier ofr some but harder for others. I don't think that people get the full spectrum of the flower shop experience from the web and have yet to figure out how to give it to them through the web...It is a very frustrating ideal to deal with for me, but a very neccessary part of every business in todays landscape..I do the best I can for the moment and hope that someday I will have the insight or money to hire someone to work it like it should be worked.

 

[lori042499]

Just out of curiosity for those who make and sell wire service arrangements. Do you make them according to the recipe given by the wire service? If so do they end up looking as nice as the photo?

RC

I seem to think so. I do use the recipe and it does depend on the size of the flowers sometimes they are bigger and fuller sometimes they are smaller...I have never had a cpmplaint that something didn't look like the picture...unless of course everything I had was immature and the arrangement was not full looking, on those I give them 5 more days on their garauntee and have never had someone come back to get a replacement because once the flowers open they look just like the picture..

 

[Joe Mioux]

My experience was that the design was selected based on price (under $50 SRP) and color (white) - but most shopper have no idea how small it really is.




My experience is that many of those best sellers are under-priced and list less stems in the recipes than what it actually takes to make them.

I agree, many customers shop based solely on price and not unique design.

There are about four items on TF webs that sell really well and all appear to be sold by price.

Warm thoughts, Gentle thoughts that white wicker basket you and Cheryl reference,

http://www.teleflora.com/sympathy-flowers.asp

Coicidence? I looked on TF Sympathy page and see four out of the 5-6 best sellers of the arrangements that are best sellers for me.

All sell well, but the vast majority of these are coming in via my website and not TF's website.

Also, TF now adds $7 to their (own Website's images) for delivery.

Is this telling us that we need to focus more on value and less uniqueness?

maybe, maybe sometimes.... and sometimes maybe not, but these popular items certainly should be sending a message to us florists.

I think we FC debaters sort of get boxed into these discussions defending one position vs the other, when in the reality of running our own businesses we do a little of all, i.e. cookie cutters and unique.

joe

 

[Joe Mioux]

And when you and I were 'doing it' the marketing departments cared about input from florists in the trenches. Not any more, especially with regard to retail selling price and margins.

.

Before the internet, I remember going to focus group meeting(s) with FTD in STL.

The market researchers would be behind one way glass and they would be filming us and our recording answers to various questions.

Today, I regularly receive TF product surveys for new product and surveys for post-holiday sales even when I don't always buy the product.

Cathy, Is that what you meant?

 

[master J]

I have no problem with cookie cutters, I still use some on my website.
However, when I look at a site that is all cookie cutters, I have no idea what kind of work that florist does.

If you all say you can fill the image as nice or better than the WS shows, well lets see it.....

At least try to take a photo, or maybe have a separate gallery of "your photos" just to show what you're capable of creating .

I realize I am looking at this from a "florist perspective" but I have no idea what kind of work a lot of you on FC are capable of doing because you hide behind WS images....

Don't take it the wrong way, but anyone can put WS images on their website. Of course they are professional and look great but it tells me nothing about your shop! Show a little personality, give us an idea of what you do....JMO

 

[Rhonda]

guess you could call this cookie cutter

This is by far our most requested piece from our "small website's" sympathy page (don't look at the rest of the site, please)
http://www.millinocketflorist.com/category_detail_page.asp?ProductCode=S11-3444SY

But the reason given for most who call for this are asking for the colors not necessarily the exact flowers. Because we are rural and don't have the outlets for lots of varieties except with over 24 hr notice, We have produced this "style and color" easel spray many, many times. At one service, we had requests for this easel 3 times. We varied it up to make each one different but kept the "polychromic" theme with each one and each one different distinctive shape.

 

[bloomz]

Is this telling us that we need to focus more on value and less uniqueness?

maybe, maybe sometimes.... and sometimes maybe not, but these popular items certainly should be sending a message to us florists.

joe

Spot on.

However, when I look at a site that is all cookie cutters, I have no idea what kind of work that florist does.

If you all say you can fill the image as nice or better than the WS shows, well lets see it.....

At least try to take a photo, or maybe have a separate gallery of "your photos" just to show what you're capable of creating .

I realize I am looking at this from a "florist perspective" but I have no idea what kind of work a lot of you on FC are capable of doing because you hide behind WS images....

Don't take it the wrong way, but anyone can put WS images on their website. Of course they are professional and look great but it tells me nothing about your shop! Show a little personality, give us an idea of what you do....JMO

Master J you silly butt - this is about pleasing consumers, not florists, as well as not being able to take images you're proud of.

We blow enough time typing and arguing this point, why would we take it to that level and waste more?


Don't take this the wrong way, but I don't really give half a shiznit what other florists think or know we can do.

The proof of the pudding (well, cookies in this case) is in what the public buys, and Lori hit some vital real life examples above.


OK I need coffee, that did not make sense.:itchy:

 

[CHR]

Master J you silly butt - this is about pleasing consumers, not florists, as well as not being able to take images you're proud of.

A shop can never take photos of work they're proud of unless they try, and they won't improve unless they keep at it.

And it is about pleasing customers. Remind me why McShan's has their own photos on their site? Must be ego since Bruce certainly wouldn't do it based on sound business decisions. Same with many other top members who sell more products locally than they wire out: Winston's, Oberer's, Gainan's, Bachman's, Ashland Addison to name a few.

We blow enough time typing and arguing this point, why would we take it to that level and waste more?

So why did you start yet another thread about the joys of cookie cutters?

It's a false arguement. If you can, do it! If you can't, then just argue vociferously that everyone else they can't (or shouldn't bother), too.

 

[RWK]

Spot on.

Master J you silly butt - this is about pleasing consumers, not florists, as well as not being able to take images you're proud of.

We blow enough time typing and arguing this point, why would we take it to that level and waste more?


Don't take this the wrong way, but I don't really give half a shiznit what other florists think or know we can do.

The proof of the pudding (well, cookies in this case) is in what the public buys, and Lori hit some vital real life examples above.


OK I need coffee, that did not make sense.:itchy:

JB - In the guise of good customer service - I have to say that I think you are way off base. In this case, I WANT to know about the skills and what another florist CAN do and HOW Well they do it because I want MY customer to have the best flowers, style, design, available to his recipient in another town.

Why else do POS systems have preferred florist listings, Why do we send orders to other FC members, Why do I refer a customer to another AIFD member......

Take the town of Charlotte in North Carolina for instance. There are several FC members in that town, but whenever I send an order, my first choice is always Jo Ingersoll AIFD's shop Shelton Florist.

Why is that......because I KNOW that MY CUSTOMER WILL get the best.

You said it yourself, this is about good customer service. KNOWLEDGE of what another florist in another town CAN DO is VITAL to that end.

 

[bloomz]

Cathy, remind me again how poorly these are selling for 800TFTD will you?

I have tried, and gave up, deciding I had better things to devote time to, for instance learning Excel so I can better market my cookies to the public that obviously wants them.

As said earlier in this thread, you have to choose what you want to give your time to, and since this is already done most excellently for me...well?

SO much to learn...so little time.

And...the thread started with "try offering these great new products - they do sell".

Should I regret offering up what I consider to be helpful information?

 

[Connie]

Bloomz, I know another florist whose shop is close to mine who does not use his own images. His designers can knock out some gorgeous stuff, but he acknowledges his and his staff's inability to photograph them well. He, as you do, spends a lot of his time on other things, and seems to be going to the bank very regularly with deposits. He designed his own website, and I believe that is a huge bonus for him. He definitely knows what his customers like, and he produces that for them.

I, on the other hand, reluctantly admit that my website did not produce well for the shop for Valentine's Day. Most of our Valentine's specials that were shown there had been photographed by me. We usually have a lot of JH designs on the website. They sell better there, and I do firmly believe that it is because of my poor photograph skills.

I have, BTW, a degree in Fine Arts and have taken some photography classes with a 35mm camera, but now use a digital. I should know how to photograph our designs better, but I simply cannot at this time. The eyesight is not as good as it once was with a camera. Hiring a professional to come in & do our photos for us is out of the question financially right now.

I thank you, as always, Bloomz, for sharing your knowledge here. I love the fact that you do not fear taking a road less traveled.

 

[CHR]

Should I regret offering up what I consider to be helpful information?

No, but I do hope you regret the snarky jabs about unique products being all about ego.

Noticed you didn't address

Remind me why McShan's has their own photos on their site? Must be ego since Bruce certainly wouldn't do it based on sound business decisions. Same with many other top members who sell more products locally than they wire out: Winston's, Oberer's, Gainan's, Bachman's, Ashland Addison to name a few.

unless you consider a groan as 'addressing'. So much for spirited debate...

 

[Tuberose]

Trish, I'm looking at all the new "WEB" items. To me they are with the "times", attached are a few examples. Are these considered "roundy moundy's"? Perhaps they are, but with a modern twist. These do sell.

Sorry, going back a few pages to respond to this. Yes those are roundy moundy's and easy for any florist to fill, hence their design style, and yes, they are also more trendy. You will see less and less arrangements that require any type of design ability to assure any florist can fill them and quickly, hence, a cookie cutter.

I have no problem with cookie cutters, I still use some on my website.
However, when I look at a site that is all cookie cutters, I have no idea what kind of work that florist does.

If you all say you can fill the image as nice or better than the WS shows, well lets see it.....

At least try to take a photo, or maybe have a separate gallery of "your photos" just to show what you're capable of creating .

I realize I am looking at this from a "florist perspective" but I have no idea what kind of work a lot of you on FC are capable of doing because you hide behind WS images....

Don't take it the wrong way, but anyone can put WS images on their website. Of course they are professional and look great but it tells me nothing about your shop! Show a little personality, give us an idea of what you do....JMO

If I have half a chance, I will try to see if a flower shop has a website BEFORE I send a wire order out. I too want to see if the filling shop will do a decent job of filling the order for me. If they only have wire service images, I try not to send to them, I have no clue if they can design or not. Forget the fancy stuff, can they do a mixed arrangement or funeral spray and do a decent job of it? This has nothing to do with design style, there are too many places that have no clue, I would be embarrassed if my customer got a mess, and I have seen pics posted that back me up. Amen to that post.

Trish

 

[lori042499]

Now I do know that any florist should be able to make a roundy moundy arrangement, bt have any of you seen the news or the QA photos from TF...

I have seen many an arrangement on the news usually at MD or VD that was supposed to look like a picture on the web and then look at the design and it so isn't even close...or the QA photos in your TF statement, how they even let those shops still be memebrs is beyond me....

I worked for a guy that could design the heck out of tropicals and taught me much of what I know but to copy a picture he is bad...something in the translation, not sure why.

I do agree with Adam in that I wish more shops had at least a few of their own designs so that I (a florist) can judge who I send flowers through...and I do get quite a number of people that comment on my own designs on my webpage, they say things like "It's nice to see things that you actually created." or "Will this look exactly like the picture, I know it is not yours because it looks different than your custom pictures." or "I chose your shop because you had some additional information and selections that other shops did not have. Are those your own pictures?" So people do like to see your own work a small amount of people...probably people who have been burned by anonymous web ordering florist pages before and are now looking for signs of real life beyond the info super highway mask that allows people to be ripped off unknowingly....

I am not totally against my own pictures and it is part ego that I would want my pictures to sell over TF, but I'll be @@@@ed if I am going to sacrifice sales and take a chance on putting all my own images up and not sell a darn thing..

 

[Tuberose]

I forgot to add that this week we are having photos done and, hopefully, a website up soon. At this point I am ready for most anything and will settle for a TF site with some of our own pics added to it, better than nothing. I'm sure the Professional photo guy is expensive, so we will also be using TF pics to fill it out and give people a choice of cookie cutters.

As far as using your own pics goes, lots of sites offer only their designs, like Cathy said, many large volume shops as well.

Trish

 

[lori042499]

I forgot to add that this week we are having photos done and, hopefully, a website up soon. At this point I am ready for most anything and will settle for a TF site with some of our own pics added to it, better than nothing. I'm sure the Professional photo guy is expensive, so we will also be using TF pics to fill it out and give people a choice of cookie cutters.

As far as using your own pics goes, lots of sites offer only their designs, like Cathy said, many large volume shops as well.

Trish

Yes, large volume also equals more discrecenary sp? spending on developing pictures and specials...

 

[LJVF]

IMO, they sell because they fill a thumbnail photo better than a tall arrangement.

Bet you $500 casino cash if you line those up with the same flowers made into tall designs in your shop, real live humans seeing the real products would overwhelmingly choose the taller designs dollar for dollar.

I think this goes along with what Rhonda was saying earlier in this thread. This may be a regional thing, but my walk in customers always gravitate toward the cubes. Usually they won't, but sometimes they will ask why the "smaller" cubed arrangement costs the same as the taller arr., but with a little explaining and educating, I would guesstimate 8 times out of 10 they will go with the cube.

My cubes are so popular that I now plan to dedicate a whole section of them on my website. I believe that Teleflora already has done this.

For Valentines walkin's we had a table lined up with TF's "Sweet Thoughts" bouquet along with 1/2 dozen long stemmed roses in vase with green and filler. Both clearly marked, the sweet thoughts went for $49.99, my half dozens went for $45.99. This red cubed arr. which contained only 4 roses and was priced higher, blew away the 1/2 dozen arr. which looked significantly bigger. Attached is an image of the sweet thoughts bouquet.