Truth and Accuracy in the Advertising of Floral Products

[BOSS]

Ted, never be ashamed when you speak from your heart...that's not the way it's supposed to work...

Could you elaborate on:

quite a bit to lose

Sorry, but I think we've already lost "it" and see little left "to lose".

 

[fortinos]

signature request

I would sign the letter and be more than glad to do so. If there is any way I can help to further this cause, let me know. I have been telling any of the local florists who will listen that we need to ban together to stop this "infection" before we are all made to sick to go on.

 

[CHR]

I prefer to send in my letters from me to them. I know that none of my letters (or any other letter) has changed anything,

Ted, our letter to the FTC absolutely changed the way 1-800 was doing business. The FTC actually called 1-800 as a result of our letter and the Free Shipping of florist delivered flowers is gone. You can bet other WSs took notice - and now we need to make them responsible for their affiliates who do the same - and worse.

there seems to be a conspicuous absence of the biggest wire service members here.

We do have a few and at least one told me he'd sign. I've emailed off copies to request signatures from some other large operations. It's a holiday week so I expect responses may take a while.

Yes, the WSs love to mock small florists. They also love to wine & dine big ones, while working to undermine those operations, too.

 

[RC in Dayton and Cincinnati]

I haven't had time to respond in depth but wanted it known I'd sign.



RC

 

[JCT]

I'll be quite honest. This stuff just makes my head hurt.

Isn't this something that can be taken to the FTC as well? (I did a search here for FTC and came up with nothing).

We B&M's need a voice, Cathy I thank you for taking that on.

I will sign, with the hopes that it will do something, but I guess I'm a doubting Thomas and feel like we're just spitting into the wind. No insults intended, it's just an expression. jenny

 

[bloomz]

Sorry, I voted no. Like all of Cathy's work, it's a great letter. However, I prefer to send in my letters from me to them. I know that none of my letters (or any other letter) has changed anything, but that's the way I like to do business.

I don't know how to say this without sounding like the greedy, self-serving person that I am, but I see nothing to gain here and quite a bit to lose.

but having a letter signed by a lot of non wire-service members isn't going to carry much weight. There are only two no votes so far, but frankly, there seems to be a conspicuous absence of the biggest wire service members here.

I am sort of ashamed to take this position, but at least I'm honest.

Ted, our letter to the FTC absolutely changed the way 1-800 was doing business. The FTC actually called 1-800 as a result of our letter and the Free Shipping of florist delivered flowers is gone. You can bet other WSs took notice - and now we need to make them responsible for their affiliates who do the same - and worse.

Thanks for your upfrontness Ted.

Maybe my honesty will get me in trouble again too, but I agree with Ted.

I don't see any significant change coming from efforts like this - they just switch the words around - now to Free Vase.

Tho it's a wonderful very well written and researched letter - but they're not going to change where their bread is buttered. They have an incredibly vested interest in assisting/allowing/encouraging/co-signing all those tactics discussed.

As well as - I have a relationship, tho it may be a bastardly one, with those companies, and I have to take care of my own's company's interests first. I prefer to negotiate with them.

So I'm gonna pick my battles...I voted no as well and am openly admitting it just so you know who is and who isn't on board with it.

More honesty - maybe I should just apologize now.

Sorry...

It's a bit like war protesting - as against the war as I am, I've been there, done that, and wish well to the people I see at the courthouse every day here - but I don't get out and join them - I just give them the peace sign as I drive by and honk my horn to let them know I support their efforts.

Good luck with it.

 

[BOSS]

It's not spitting into the wind...but it will take an effort that goes outside the confines of the FlowerChat Community to make the effort a success.

It can succeed, trust me on that one. But it'll take local florists talking to their competition and explaining the whole issue, all the dirty little secrets, and laying it out in a manner that they will understand and feel compelled to support in the best interests of their futures.

I have my hands full right now, but as soon as this weekend is over, I plan to write a letter to my local competitors and invite them to a get-together. Soon as I have it writen up, I'll post a link and anyone that wishes can copy it.

There are many in the industry that think I'm a fool for continually pushing for a "union" within the retail florist community, that's fine...they know what they want from their futures.

RC...thanks for lending your reputation to this effort, it is appreciated and I know there will be other large operations that will step up to the plate and support efforts to take back what has been taken away.

Like I said in another thread, even the large shops are finally seeing the damage being done by allowing the current practices to continue. They are and will continue to realize that they too, need to "pick a team" as Bad Bobby stated a decade ago, but if they pick the wrong team they too may be left out in the cold when the small local florists finally see the light, and shut their towns off to discounted work.

 

[BOSS]

I have a relationship, tho it may be a bastardly one, with those companies, and I have to take care of my own's company's interests first. I prefer to negotiate with them.

Jon, the thing is, it's only the top maybe 250 that can negotiate with them, leaving thousands that can not.

Trust me on this one my friend...one day in the not too distant future, the flow will become so difficult on the out bound side...even you will come over to the light side....

 

[Mikey the Flower Guy]

Finally, and I would expect quite a few red dots for saying this, but having a letter signed by a lot of non wire-service members isn't going to carry much weight. There are only two no votes so far, but frankly, there seems to be a conspicuous absence of the biggest wire service members here.

I am sort of ashamed to take this position, but at least I'm honest.

I'd be MORE ashamed of ALL of us if you got red dots for your candor!!
Ted.....whatever your reasoning, there is NO MORE GOOD, to be had from the current wire services, and in "Totoesque" fashion, they NEED to "be gone" or "alter" their borderline illegal operations, in which THEY harbour AND protect the LOWEST bowels of this industry, in an industry that offers LESS value, than almost ANY other industry.
A GOOD "enema" is called for, I'LL be the FIRST, to shove it up their collective portholes.

 

[LJVF]

As an active wire service member with no plans to quit in the near future, I am hesitant to sign this letter. Wouldn't it be hypocritical of me to sign this when I am voluntarily filling the orders in question? I am holding off on my vote for the time being.

 

[CHR]

Wouldn't it be hypocritical of me to sign this when I am voluntarily filling the orders in question?

If you know you're filling for some of the dOGs, well...yes.

If you're filling for legit national companies, all this letter asks is that they and all affiliates clearly disclose that a consumer is paying for product, local delivery and a service charge up front so buyers can make price comparisons.

Flower sellers who are concerned they'll lose shoppers by disclosing these fees up front fear transparency.

Do you doubt a more transparent pricing structure would affect consumer buying decisions?

The letter additionally asks that WS ensure integrity of value in the network, prohibit their agents from marketing deceptively, and stop using enticements to encourage the ones that do.

 

[Joe Mioux]

Cathy,

I have a boat load of jumbled thoughts floating around in my head with your letter.

I started parsing the letter in my head, and normally I would just parse it out here in the thread, but I can't do that yet.

I guess the one question I have for you right now is.

What is the WS execs' incentive to change the way they are making money now?

I can't see any reason why they wouldn't just read this letter and ignore your remedies.

I don't believe they are interested in having a well informed consumer. After all a well informed consumer would just bypass the WS's services and just go to your website in Anaheim or my website here in Carlyle and order directly.

That serves them nothing and earns them no revenue.

I am still thinking. Bear with me.

Joe

 

[CHR]

What is the WS execs' incentive to change the way they are making money now?

Fear that shareholders, a big class action attorney, or a federal trade regulator will take a close look.

After all a well informed consumer would just bypass the WS's services and just go to your website in Anaheim or my website here in Carlyle and order directly.

Right. So the WSs pay affiliates to look like us, real local flower shops in the community. Some of the marketing practices they reward with commissions and rebates are plain old illegal. From the WHDH piece in 2006:

The Federal Trade Commission says there's nothing wrong with flowers by phone, but you can't have a fake location and charge customers an undisclosed fee.

Barbara Anthony, FTC:
"Taking consumers money when they are unaware of it, through deception, that's against the law."

Unfortunately, the FTC has a full plate, so we need to step up and do something ourselves.

 

[LJVF]

CHR,

Let me preface this by saying that I have the same issues and concerns that the others have questioned regarding the letter, I am just shedding new light on the "hypocrisy" part.

I feel that many on this board are guilty of some of the same deceptive issues that you bring up in your letter. And no I am not referring to the big senders here at FlowerChat, I'm talking about many of the voices against the OG's. I have compared the pricing on my wire ins with the pricing listed on their websites and have found some blatant deceiving and skimming going on. Whether they even know they are practicing it or not is another story. If some of these same members are signing the letter, wouldn't it affect the credibility of it?

 

[Joe Mioux]

Finally! something to parse.

Fear that shareholders, a big class action attorney, or a federal trade regulator will take a close look.

I used to work for an association that took on the Truth in Advertising issue. It is a very long and involved AND expensive process.

Right. So the WSs pay affiliates to look like us, real local flower shops in the community. Some of the marketing practices they reward with commissions and rebates are plain old illegal. From the WHDH piece in 2006:

This letter isn't going to get them to change. Follow the money. The WS's are making lots of money with dogs and ogs.

Unfortunately, the FTC has a full plate, so we need to step up and do something ourselves.

Which means what? Nothing will happen? I don't know.

I think you stand a better chance at addressing this letter to the FTC and CC'g it the WS's.

What will be easier to accomplish? Convincing the WS's to change their ways or just drop WS membership?

I mean there are alternatives out there for sending and there are only a handful of FC'rs who derive any benefit out of receiving. So why not just make it easy and just opt out of the WS.

Yea I know, that isn't reality.... and it isn't!

Joe

 

[RC in Dayton and Cincinnati]

I think the letter should be written to the FTC or some consumer advocacy groups. It should clearly state who the victims are, consumers. Although we as florists feel like victims as well, it shouldn't be about us at all. The consumer is clearly being damaged by deceptive and probably some illegal activities.

I think it should also clearly state that the wire services are the cause of these practices, not only by turning a blind eye, but also by handsomely rewarding the perpetrators, and are the sole group who has power to correct the situation.

It should be clear to the reader that the wire services are as, or more, guilty than the ones caring out the dirty deeds, much like murder for hire. The one doing the hiring is as guilty as the one caring out the deed. Clearly, these practices are encouraged by perks and rebates by the wire services for the benefit of the wire services.

A final note, I think the wire services would like to clean up the industry, but because of the cut-throat competition between the three major services, are incapable of acting individually, i.e. doing the right thing would create a competitive disadvantage to the particular good doer.

If the wire services were forced to clean up their acts in unison, the results might end up with the elimination of ordergatherers and a stronger grip on the industry by the three major wire services. They would be saving millions on rebates while weeding out all the little pesty competition. I don't know whether this would be a good thing or not.

only my thoughts and opinions,
RC

 

[CHR]

This letter isn't going to get them to change. Follow the money. The WS's are making lots of money with dogs and ogs.

To the detriment of consumers and all local florists, not just their members.

I think you stand a better chance at addressing this letter to the FTC and CC'g it the WS's.

Having spoken directly with FTC attorneys, they agree the issues are valid. It's a matter of their resources (really, lack of them). A letter directly to the FTC would need to name names, cite specific examples (as we did with 1-800), and require lengthy investigation on their part.

I won't get into all the details of conversation there, but with our limited resources, raising awareness is what our budget allows at this point, unless you've got a rich uncle.

What will be easier to accomplish? Convincing the WS's to change their ways or just drop WS membership?

Unfortunately, dropping WS membership does not make dOGs disappear from the marketplace, nor does it make transaction transparent. That's why the letter includes the phrase 'unfair competition.'

 

[Joe Mioux]

To the detriment of all local florists, not just their members.

Having spoken directly with FTC attorneys, they agree the issues are valid. It's a matter of their resources (really, lack of them). A letter directly to the FTC would need to name names, cite specific examples (as we did with 1-800), and require lengthy investigation on their part.

I won't get into all the details of conversation there, but with our limited resources, raising awareness is what our budget allows at this point, unless you've got a rich uncle.
Unfortunately, dropping WS membership does not make dOGs disappear from the marketplace, nor does it make transaction transparent. That's why the letter includes the phrase 'unfair competition.'

so the only option is a letter to the WS execs?

What are they going to do when they read this letter?

joe

 

[CHR]

I think the letter should be written to the FTC or some consumer advocacy groups.

For $6K, we can go the NAB route, one Dog, one WS at a time. Heck, all the dOGs appear to have ugly BBB profiles.

 

[CHR]

I feel that many on this board are guilty of some of the same deceptive issues that you bring up in your letter. And no I am not referring to the big senders here at FlowerChat, I'm talking about many of the voices against the OG's.

The current WS atmosphere, with reports of skimming and curtailment not being taken seriously, has created a wild west mentality. The leadership is not putting the consumer (and industry integrity) first.

I have a stack of emails from WS execs saying 'we'll look into it' with nothing being done.

Some B&M florists are guilty, too and I hope you addressed the issues directly with them. They are setting you up for a complaint.

so the only option is a letter to the WS execs?

No. Just the most affordabe one.

What are they going to do when they read this letter?

They probably already have. :> Next they'll call legal. And then they'll weigh the potential down sides, scouring the files for complaint letters. Plus they'll call in some florists to offer tributes to how wonderful they are.

If they get a lot of signatures, they'll pay more attention to the issues.