Truth and Accuracy in the Advertising of Floral Products

[BOSS]

Like RC, I too believe that the wires would like to clean up this mess as much as we do, really. They know they have lost control of the monster they hatched decades ago when rebates first started.

They know, that *when* the florists get enough folks on the same page they will become a nonessential participant keft by the side of the road. It IS in their best interest to clean up the game, and partner with the local florists like they **used** to do, they know they will be healthier cash flow wise, but like has been said for this change to occur all of the BIG3 will have to act in unison with regard to eliminating the rebates and going back to head on competition with quality products that benefit retailers, something they do not have to do, and are not doing now.

This whole mess could be resolved overnight, eliminating the OG's would return the consumer to the florists, the very thing that is happening slowly now as evidenced by declining WS order volume and increased direct consumer connections via web and phone with local florists. Thus more volume would return to flowing thru the WS from florists, generating more in flowing funds and eliminating out going funds via rebates.

 

[RWK]

Just a [evil grin ] thought - What would happen if we copied Cathy's letter and sent copies to our local politicians, news services, and the like? Wonder how long it would take for the dOG's and WS's to notice if all of a sudden they were barraged with a horde of local news reporters shoving microphones and cameras in their face?

Local Investigative news teams can spur things to get done.......seems that people don't really like for their 'dirty laundry' to show up on the evening news.

 

[Mikey the Flower Guy]

Just a [evil grin ] thought - What would happen if we copied Cathy's letter and sent copies to our local politicians, news services, and the like? Wonder how long it would take for the dOG's and WS's to notice if all of a sudden they were barraged with a horde of local news reporters shoving microphones and cameras in their face?

Local Investigative news teams can spur things to get done.......seems that people don't really like for their 'dirty laundry' to show up on the evening news.

IF the "public" understood, they wouldn't need us....AND, to "re-iterate"...do we REALLY want the media to sensationalize all the stuff that can of worms would OPEN??

 

[Jerry]

My answer to that question has always been, YESSSSSS.

 

[RWK]

Well Mike, If we can show that we are acting on behalf of the public who is being misled and we as concerned reputable business people can no longer stand by and let this go unchallenged......especially if we do similar to what was done with 1-800 by citing a few examples and adding links to florist detective and a few other sites aimed at combatting this.........a shining spotlight on those opened worms, in the words of Martha - might "be a good thing"

If we make the first contacts with the media instead of the media hunting stories about how eveil the floral industry is.......we can also control the story and minimize the damage to the real florist.

 

[CHERYL BAKIN]

Cathy:
I originally posted that I would sign the letter, and I still will.

I, however, after rereading the posts, agree with RC & Joe that we should send the letter to the FTC, with COPIES to all the major wire services.

If we need to give specifics of each violation, I believe we can very easily, with a short amount of work on the computers of several people.

I fully believe that if the FTC gets involved (as they did with the 1-800 thing last fall), we will see faster action, and action that will not be ignored.

You also will give the WS a REASON to take action.......a legitimate one (IE: the GOVERNMENT IS MAKING US DO THIS....DONN'T BLAME ME, BLAME THE FTC!)

The wire services will need someone to make a scapegoat in order for this to happen.

then there is the whole loss of revenue stream......I'm still struggling with that can of worms.......not sure how we can "spin" that to make it palatible to the WS yet.

JMHO.

Regards,
Cheryl

PPS: I also believe that this post should be signed by FC members who are members of Wire Services. While everyone can support this action, It will have more meaning if the FC - WS members sign it (We are attempting to clean up "our own house" kind of thing.)

 

[bloomz]

This whole mess could be resolved overnight, eliminating the OG's would return the consumer to the florists, the very thing that is happening slowly now as evidenced by declining WS order volume and increased direct consumer connections via web and phone with local florists. Thus more volume would return to flowing thru the WS from florists, generating more in flowing funds and eliminating out going funds via rebates.

But they don't want those orders going directly to florists - they want them flowing thru the wire system.

Is it better for 800TFTD to have someone in Midland with recipient in Midland to order from a non-Midland OG than a real Midland florist?

They don't want to eliminate OGs. This is why they encourage and reward them/us.

To expect them to do anything else is like us encouraging our customers to go around us.

 

[CHR]

PPS: I also believe that this post should be signed by FC members who are members of Wire Services. While everyone can support this action, It will have more meaning if the FC - WS members sign it (We are attempting to clean up "our own house" kind of thing.)

SAF has taken a line that these issues are between WSs and their members. I disagree.

Deceptive advertising negatively affects all florists.

When FTD pays rebates to and hosts of the site of "FTDfloristsonline.com/flowers"whose main Adwords ad campaign says

Free Delivery For Online Orders FTD Florist Satisfaction Guaranteed

, they continue to choose to reward a fraudulent ad claim which gives 'Flowers' an unfair competitive advantage over all honest B&M stores.

When TF pays commissions and rebates to E-Florist-Inc.com, whose main Adwords ad campaign fraudulently claims "Free Delivery, Free Vase 9.99 Value", they too reward a company who is breaking the law. Additionally, by allowing E-Florist-Inc to transmit their orders through the TF network under a different name, International Florist, they cloak the true order origins and make it difficult for florists to understand they are filling orders gained under false pretense.

When FSI cloaks cheapflowers.com, flora2000.com and Best Floral's orders, all renowned for their deceptive marketing and business practices, they help enable the continuing deception.

At this point, it looks like 1-800 finally gave Best Floral the boot, so they look the cleanest of the WSs.

False claims and geographic misrepresentation deceive consumers and affect all members of the retail floral trade - designers, drivers, sales people, etc.... not just shop owners, and not just their members.

 

[LOTAKIDS]

False advertising a plenty!!!

I can not understand any florist who would not be behind this letter sent directly to the FTC, Wire Services and any one else it might benefit.

I just opened my new verizon yellow pages to check out the my ad and low and behold - BT (members of SAF, says located in Northern VA, but no street address, NOT IN SHOHOMISH COUNTY WA) now has 4 pages of ads with different website names - one being Lauren's Florist - who is she?? but they all redirect to BT site!! Not to mention 6 or more at least 2" adds in addition. Are they being subsidized for these ads as I know my budget barely allows a small one inch bold ad. The local florist in the area have small 1" adds. This is truly a buyer beware situation.

I am in to help pay for an ad in SAF, Florist Review, what ever it takes to bring this to a more competative playing field.

Oh yes, I may be a "newbie" (shop owner for 2 years, playing with flowers for over 30) or what ever you want to call me, but I am not stupid and it only took me 3 months in owning my shop to figure out the scams and deceptive practices of Order Gathers.

When I receive their orders, they will either bring it up to my published minimum with delivery additional or cancel. Not sorry one bit.

I am feeling so fustrated, and I have always believed, the pen is mighter than the sword.

 

[yellad]

Girl you rock!!! :headbang: Finally!! I'm in! where do I sign? here?ok, next, here? , next, next next next........

 

[goldfish]

The old adage 'follow the money' comes into play here. Without the rebates and incentives which reward these practices - paid out by the WSs - would the practices be curtailed or even stopped?

First of all, I will sign it no matter what. My so-called "suggestion" is not a condition for my signature (which doesn't mean much anyway), but a food for thought.

Generally, this kind of criticism letter works best, if the writer has more power than the recipient of the letter. This is not the case here.

If the writer has less power than the recipient of a complaint letter, a certain compromise is in order, to minimize the risk of being simply ignored.

What is the "compromise"? It is to suppress what you REALLY want to say. You probably thinks it's cowardly; you are right, it is. But if we really want the actual results, not just a mere satisfaction that you/we did the right thing, then I would be willing to be a coward.

That's all. Again, I will sign no matter what. If this doesn't work, we can try again and again. Next time probably I will have more listening ears.

 

[CHERYL BAKIN]

Cathy:
I think you are preaching to the choir here. The choice to me is pretty simple.

1. Sign & send the letter to WS execs only -- and it will probably be ignored.
OR.................
2. Sign & send the letter to the FTC, and the US Attorney's office -- with copies to all WS executives, and to SAF.
2a. Along with # 2, take out a full-page ad (I have no idea what this costs) in Florist Review and Floral Management Magazine, posting in public view, as a paid announcement, this letter. Also asking all WS members to contact their field reps, et all regarding the facts laid out in this letter.

I personally like # 2 & 2a better.
Route # 1 gets the letter sent, and gets a great deal of personal satisfaction (we tried guys), but does not really create any reason for the WS to act once they receive the letter.

Route #2 & 2a gets the issues front and center before a powerful (but slow to act) FTC, and the US Attorney General (who is not so slow to act right now). The ads hopefully will raise the awareness of many, many FWOAC....... to having a clue!!!!

Just my 2 cents......
should I forward my contribution to Boss for our Bail money now??

Cheryl

 

[Joe Mioux]

Cathy:
I think you are preaching to the choir here. The choice to me is pretty simple.

1. Sign & send the letter to WS execs only -- and it will probably be ignored.

2. Sign & send the letter to the FTC, and the US Attorney's office -- with copies to all WS executives, and to SAF.
2a. Along with # 2, take out a full-page ad (I have no idea what this costs) in Florist Review and Floral Management Magazine, posting in public view, as a paid announcement, this letter. Also asking all WS members to contact their field reps, et all regarding the facts laid out in this letter.

I personally like # 2 & 2a better. route # 1 gets the letter sent, and gets a great deal of personal satisfaction (we tried guys), but does not really create any reason for the WS to act once they receive the letter.

Route #2 & 2a gets the issues front and center before a powerful (but slow to act) FTC, and the US Attorney General (who is not so slow to act right now). The ads hopefully will raise the awareness of many, many FWOAC to having a clue!!!!

Just my 2 cents......
should I forward my contribution to Boss for our Bail money now??

Cheryl

I like it and that is what I was trying to convey. A letter to the WS execs will just be ignored.

Cheryl, your golden!

Joe

 

[goldfish]

Cathy,

I just wanted to reiterate that you have my unconditional support. Just tell me what you want me to do, and I will do it.

To everyone else,

This is Cathy's effort. She must have invested a lot of time that none of us have done. Let's set minor tactical differences aside and give encouragement to her.

I think she must need a lot of signature to this. What each of us can do is to email a copy of her final letter to every local florist we know. Chances are that, if we sent out 50 of them, 5 might agree to sign. If 100 of us did the email campaign, we could collect 500 signatures.

We can sort out differences later.

 

[yellad]

Cathy,

I just wanted to reiterate that you have my unconditional support. Just tell me what you want me to do, and I will do it.

To everyone else,

This is Cathy's effort. She must have invested a lot of time that none of us have done. Let's set minor tactical differences aside and give encouragement to her.

I think she must need a lot of signature to this. What each of us can do is to email a copy of her final letter to every local florist we know. Chances are that, if we sent out 50 of them, 5 might agree to sign. If 100 of us did the email campaign, we could collect 500 signatures.
We can sort out differences later.

I agree. I would also like to help. Let me know what I can do

 

[CHERYL BAKIN]

Goldfish,

No-one is attacking Cathy or Cathy's effort regarding this issue.

if you go back & re-read the VERY FIRST POST THAT SHE MADE, she asked for comments, etc. All that all of us have been doing is giving good, honest, feedback and ideas.

Plans come together for a great many reasons. One of the reasons is that someone has stepped forward to LEAD the WAY, and asks for the help of others to join a worthwhile effort.

In joining in this effort, people who belong to a wire service need to decide to sign or not sign.

Once the letter is finalized, and ready for signatures, then to whom is it sent? Is there a most effective way to get the message across??

Having worked in the corporate world for many years, and had my own writings rewritten, torn apart and put back together by others, I understand the process that this letter is going thru right now. No-one is attacking her, or her ideas.....just offering input.

Cathy's letter will get where it needs to go....in the form that it needs to be in...... it just takes a little more time.

I am proud to say that I am glad to know someone who is such a great wordsmith!

Regards,
Cheryl

PS: Her posting, again on page 1, with the poll for signing or not signing, says that the poll will close on July 30, 2008. I don't believe Cathy intents to send the letter before then, although I could be wrong.

 

[CHR]

You guys are great! All feedback welcome...please!!!!

How, 'bout a couple weeks to gather signatures - we do need lots to make an impact - and then send it, plus copies to the FTC, the national BBB and the press?

I actually like the idea of a direct, public letter to the FTC but it is fraught with peril when you start naming names in public - and we definitely need a bigger legal defense fund.

 

[BOSS]

Is it better for 800TFTD to have someone in Midland with recipient in Midland to order from a non-Midland OG than a real Midland florist?

Well of course it is...for the wire service. However that said, it's better for the local florist to have the consumer order directly.

BWTFDIK...I suspended the merc for I forget how long....

SAF has taken a line that these issues are between WSs and their members. I disagree.

I disagree as well. SAF is fast approaching their USELESSNESS status in my store...their refusal to take a stance on the issues of order gathering and on deceptive advertising shows me that they are more concerned with their relationships with BIG Brother, than they are their members.

 

[CHERYL BAKIN]

Can we stop throwing stones, please??
Let's also stop drawing lines in the sand.....
That serves no purpose at all.

I guess the stone throwing & sand/line drawing is why we are at war (but don't get me started on that issue).

SAF, like them or not, tries to bring together ALL aspects of the floral industry. And like it or not, when they have needed support (in the way of funds), FTD/TF/et all have been their with their support.

It's kind of hard to bite the hand that...... well, you know.....

How many FLORISTS have signed up & paid directly or thru their WS, for participation in the SAF Promo fund???? Not too many, is what I hear.

To address your first comment Mark, I too would like the OG & DOG to go away....or at least become honest and responsible.
Truth is, the best we can hope for and help along, is the clean up part. They ain't gonna go away.

The world has changed -- ever so fast in the last about 12 to 15 years. These are multi-billion dollar companies who have figured out how to harness the power of the internet, and advertise & push the heck out of it to the consumer. They also figured out how to "game" the system for their benefit. You and I do it every day...also....just on a much smaller scale, whether it be by buying direct, buying in bulk, pushing lonly certain kinds of flowers, etc.

I also don't like it. I also wish I had thought of it first. I also wish I had the smarts, the time and the money to do the development they have put in to make it work.

I admire what they have done. I DO NOT LIKE IT, BUT I ADMIRE THE MODEL THAT HAS BEEN SUCCESSFUL.

I DO NOT LIKE OR SANCTION THE PF MODEL EITHER. However, I admire the fact that in a very short period of time, they have been able to CHANGE THE CONSUMER'S PERCEPTION OF HOW FLOWERS ARE PURCHASED, DELIVERED, AND RECEIVED.

Thank about it.......These are earth-shaking changes -- -- all tied to the smarts of an economic model, huge risk taking and financial projections, tied to the power of the internet. (This is a classic case study for Harvard Business Review & how to change an industry.) Part of what has brought about the dramitic changes, (IMHO) that that BIG BUSINESS, not so locally owned, has figured out how to make money off our local business.

So, enough of my soapbox for today.
Just some food for thought....

Great Day to All, Regards,

Cheryl

 

[fortinos]

ogs and ws

i am not sure what we are trying to get across here about the ogs and the ws. There are so many issues to address here: The dishonest fee collection, the offers of free products and free delivery, the idea that the sender is being dealt with by a business who's goal is to provide a quality product and be a contribution to their industry and their community, the fact that the very organizations that were designed to establish a standard for our industry have now turned their backs on the independent businesses that helped to build those companies , that these companies continue to assess us fees and charge us monthly membership dues when their association with the og are sucking the lifeblood out of the floral industry, the fact that the ws still fine us for low sending when they are in bed with the very companies that are taking these orders from us, the fact that they charge a fee to send us and order and cancel said order, etc, etc. etc
How any florist could not see that being a member of a ws is like having an abusive spouse but paying them for the abuse is beyond me.
ask your wire service rep they will tell you that these companies generate a lot of orders. An order that comes to me for a dozen roses in a vase for 39.99 including delivery is not an order, it is an insult. even just refusing all incoming orders from og is a good start.
i will be free of all this nonsense very soon and will focus on my own site and collecting my own orders. This way i will be able to provide the quality service and product i feel i owe my customers.