Wire Service's Quality Assurance Programs

[sfox]

First off, I don't for a moment believe that a comparison between your decision to purchase Starbucks and a consumers choice as to where to buy roses is a fair one.

Lets face it coffee is an everyday purchase and roses are not, secondly if there is a product more subject to a consumers personal tastes than coffee I don't know what it is, thirdly buying coffee at Starbucks is an experience for many rather than simply a cup of coffee, and last but not least as I recall Starbucks is floundering financially and closing stores while Mcdonalds is doing just fine (sound like another retail industry we all know)

As for your belief that $12.99 roses are "crap" this could not be further from the truth. I have personally been present at some of the best quality importers in Miami and watched them load product onto Krogers trailers, the same quality product that they sell to wholesalers and retailers. Sure they are not 60-70 cm stem lengths, but they are quality roses.While a company like Krogers or Costco may pay a bit less than "mom & pop" for these roses what makes them $12.99 roses is not the cost to the retailer, but the actual markup the retailer puts on the product.

As for how supermarkets treat product, don't judge them all by your limited experience. I have been to produce trade shows and the majors flowers farms all have a large presence along with virtually every post harvest care product manufacturer. The reality is that in the major food chains most understand and practice post harvest care better than the average florist, a lot of times their flower suppliers ensure it as the product is often on consignment and either way a supplier is judged by the longevity of the product and customer complaints.

Unfortunately the many retail florists views post harvest care as an added expense in both labor and product hard costs so try to cut corners where possible. I baAfter se this opinion on being in the wholesale side of the trade for 15 years and watching retailers consistently purchase post harvest care products based on which was cheapest, not which was best suited for the task at hand. What did you say about cheap, ahhh yes "cheap=crap".

On a last note while you ( and many others) may feel confident that the people who shop in your store are not looking for $12.99 roses, tell me this. Do these same people purchase their groceries at Costco or Walmart?

The bottom line is that making assumptions about what consumers want and forcing your desires on them want is a sure way to go broke.

After reading your reply Doug, it seems all doom for the retail florist. If price is the deciding factor then florists have no chance. The only expenses that a florist has real control over is payroll. If that payroll expense is at the industry average of 30% then even if a florists removes all labor from the price of what they charge currently for a price dozen roses it still will not equal what is being charged at mass market outlets.

Competing on price alone is not the answer. Other factors have to come into play. And using the present as the model for running your business is wrong. This economy is not the norm.

 

[Doug Munro]

After reading your reply Doug, it seems all doom for the retail florist. If price is the deciding factor then florists have no chance. The only expenses that a florist has real control over is payroll. If that payroll expense is at the industry average of 30% then even if a florists removes all labor from the price of what they charge currently for a price dozen roses it still will not equal what is being charged at mass market outlets.

Competing on price alone is not the answer. Other factors have to come into play. And using the present as the model for running your business is wrong. This economy is not the norm.

Price is one factor of many, however it is the one generally most attractive to the consumer.

Quality, service, selection, convenience all come into play at some point. However other than convenience chances are if you are not somewhat in the ballpark on pricing the consumer will never learn about your quality, service, or selection. After all each of these factors requires that the consumer either make personal contact or purchase you product to experience them. Both unlikely scenarios if you are priced too high.

I would never suggest that prices should be slashed across the board, but rather that they be lowered selectively. Offer $12.99 roses but as an entry level product, plain and simple. Then train your staff to upsell, bonus them as an incentive. DO NOT make the assumption that by offering a $12.99 rose all your customers will buy it and nothing else.

On a last note, I would never use the "present" as the model for running a flower business. The fact is that the problems this industry is facing did not begin two years ago, they have been in the works for 3 decades. They have simply taken a heavier toll in the last two years as individual shops could no longer coast relying on a strong economy. The downturn is "culling" the weaker shops who unfortunately in many cases are finding any possible changes to be made are too little too late.

 

[JoycesFlowersKC]

What I find most frustrating is that majority of florists are NOT willing to admit our defeat. Why? Pride? Fear? Lack of courage? All of the above?
Supermarkets won because they did what consumers wanted, while we florists kept complaining (and are still complaining) about why consumers weren't buying the things they "should" be buying. So naturally, they won and we lost.

I’m really not trying to be a B here….but I can’t possibly fathom being in business anymore if I had the mentality that I’m a loser. If you are going to feel that way…like it’s all for nothing….then honest to goodness…why even bother?!?!?!

My goal is to make sure my quality and service do not suffer, and with that the reputation we have spent decades cultivating does not get lost along the way. I do not want to be known as the shop selling roses for $9.95 that drop dead in 3 days, I want to be known as the shop with style, vision and design, whose roses last 2 weeks and open, even if they do cost 6 times more. For me it's all about quality over quantity.

The only way to survive is to have something that your competition does NOT. We cannot beat the grocery stores in convenience and low prices….so have better quality! Show more creativity! USE YOUR TALENT TO SET YOU APART!!!! We cannot beat OGs in mass advertising and convenience…so figure out a creative solution to advertising, and give every single person an EXPERIENCE when they are ordering on the phone. Don’t just provide order-by-number. Have someone that can talk them through the process and figure out just what that *purple flower that’s really small and ruffle-y and smells so good* that is her favorite flower. Do you think that a 1800 operator is capable of doing that?????

First off, I don't for a moment believe that a comparison between your decision to purchase Starbucks and a consumers choice as to where to buy roses is a fair one.

I think it’s a QUALITY issue. If I saw a can of Folgers behind the counter at Starbucks, I would no longer be a customer….I can easily make a cup of Folgers at home. Starbucks is selling something that McDonald’s does not….people make it with quality ingredients right in front of your face. That IS the difference between B&M and a grocer. Theirs is a mass produced, inexpensive product. Ours on the other hand is a CUSTOM MADE, quality product. Is the exact same concept.

As for how supermarkets treat product, don't judge them all by your limited experience. I have been to produce trade shows and the majors flowers farms all have a large presence along with virtually every post harvest care product manufacturer. The reality is that in the major food chains most understand and practice post harvest care better than the average florist, a lot of times their flower suppliers ensure it as the product is often on consignment and either way a supplier is judged by the longevity of the product and customer complaints.

If supermarkets have such phenomenal merchandise….why aren’t those floral people *allowed* on this forum??? Perhaps I am missing something……

On a last note while you ( and many others) may feel confident that the people who shop in your store are not looking for $12.99 roses, tell me this. Do these same people purchase their groceries at Costco or Walmart?

They aren’t looking for those roses. If they wanted them, then they would get them while they are grocery shopping. They want something OTHER than what they see at the grocery store. That is why they come to me. )

The bottom line is that making assumptions about what consumers want and forcing your desires on them want is a sure way to go broke.

I’m not making assumptions about what they want. This is what I provide…you can take it or leave it. If you want the consumer dozens…go to the grocery. If you want fan-freaking-tastic roses that would never be found in a grocery….then come to me.
And I’m not broke. )

Competing on price alone is not the answer.

I completely agree. I firmly believe that this concept *competing on price* has contributed in a major way to the downturn of our industry. Not saying that OGs and the like have not….
If people can purchase a C&C rose bunch for $12.99 at the grocer, and get the EXACT same bunch at the B&M for $14.99….why are they going to pay the extra $2 AND have the added inconvenience? They are NOT. They don’t care about our expenses…and why we have to mark things up more…yadda yadda…..
The indie HAS TO have something that the grocer does not. The day that the grocery has a dozen Unique Farms 70cm Freedoms, in an 11” garden vase, with three types of greenery, misty, statice and an organza ribbon…am I going to sit down, @@@@@, moan, cry and concede defeat!?!?! HFN! I’m gonna get off my butt and come up with another, more CREATIVE way to be better than them. And the day that I can’t do that anymore….I’m going to close my shop. But that’s never going to happen. Because this is what I believe….
I am here for a purpose, and that purpose is to grow into a mountain, not shrink to a grain of sand. Henceforth, I will apply all of my efforts and knowledge to become the highest mountain of all, and I will strain my potential until it cries for mercy.
Kick some ass people!!! WE ARE NOT DEFEATED! Do whatever it takes to set yourself apart…people WILL notice…and they WILL appreciate it. There are always going to be tight-wads out there. Stop trying to please them…and focus your energy on the customers that do understand the meaning of quality and worksmanship. Isn’t that what we should be about????

 

[goldfish]

I get my coffee at Starbucks. Not McDonalds. I 100% value my decaff extra carmel non-fat no-whip latte....and I'm willing to pay $5 for that. The day that McDonald's can provide me the exact same drink, made by an english-speaking staff who know me by name, know what I want when I walk in the door, and it's made by hand in front of my face, not poured out of a machine from a ready made mix....and do all that for $1.99....I'll be the first in line.

Consumer Report rated McDonald's coffee better than Starbucks though.

read: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16951509/

And McDonald's has been one of the few restaurants who actually increased the sale recenty. Starbucks have been closing left and right.

*I* believe that the cheap roses are exactly that...cheap. And to me, cheap=crap.

See above. I think you might need some reality check here.

 

[goldfish]

While I concur with Doug's theory outlined in the quote above in general, I believe that we can compete at the upper end in many cases better than competing at the bottom end, especially if we concentrate on the NET income over the gross income. I feel this is based on market size, where a shop like mine in a city of 40,000 has a much better chance of working a niche at the high end of the market, while leaving the lower margin work for someone else. This probably will not work in a 2 florist city with a population under 10,000 people.

I think there are only two scenarios that "high-end" shops might work.

1) A small, boutique kind of shop where the owner is the designer. This kind of shop doesn't need a whole lot of revenue, because the owner takes bulk of designer's salary, 15~20% (or more) of the total revenue. For this model to work, though, the overhead must necessarily be low; if the shop is physically large with multiple employees, then it becomes harder to generate sufficient revenue to pay the payroll and other costs.

2) A shop in a metropolitan area with loyal, affluent clients. I don't even know if these kinds of shops exist, but at least in theory, even if you have only 100 customers, if each spends $10K a year for flowers, the shop will survive. Not happening here, but might be possible in certain areas.

 

[JoycesFlowersKC]

Consumer Report rated McDonald's coffee better than Starbucks though.

read: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16951509/

And McDonald's has been one of the few restaurants who actually increased the sale recenty. Starbucks have been closing left and right.



See above. I think you might need some reality check here.

Quote from that article.......A panel of “trained testers” took their brew black — no cream, milk or sugar — and visited two locations of each company.

We are talking basic, no frills coffee here. I'm talking about a non-basic, premium product. If a flower shop wants to offer the basic, no-frills product that is duplicated daily at any establishment that sells flowers, then by all means, go right ahead. All I am saying, is that if we took half the effort of all our griping and moaning about how this industry is going to hell in a handbasket...and put that energy towards more productive measures....like improving our quality, service and reputations, we all might just do a little bit better for ourselves.

My reality is this: I have turned a flower shop that was in dire straits four years ago, into a profitable and flourishing shop with these basic concepts:
Surpass the customers expectations.
Provide the highest quality product out there.
Have the ability to create unique and unusual arrangements that set this shop apart from the rest.
Get to know each and every customer.
Period. And I've more than doubled my cash/credit sales.

I like my reality just fine. )

 

[goldfish]

My reality is this: I have turned a flower shop that was in dire straits four years ago, into a profitable and flourishing shop with these basic concepts:
Surpass the customers expectations.
Provide the highest quality product out there.
Have the ability to create unique and unusual arrangements that set this shop apart from the rest.
Get to know each and every customer.
Period. And I've more than doubled my cash/credit sales.

I like my reality just fine. )

I hear you. You seem like doing better than 99% of us. Congrats. On the other hand, for the rest of us struggling florists, we have to find some relaistic way to survive, so please allow me to continue my rant.

 

[JoycesFlowersKC]

I hear you. You seem like doing better than 99% of us. Congrats. On the other hand, for the rest of us struggling florists, we have to find some relaistic way to survive, so please allow me to continue my rant.

You just made my point for me. What is ranting going to accomplish for you? Is it going to allow you to become a better shop? Is it going to bring more customers in your door? If so...then good for you. If not, take that steam and turn it into some good energy. )

 

[goldfish]

You just made my point for me. What is ranting going to accomplish for you? Is it going to allow you to become a better shop? Is it going to bring more customers in your door? If so...then good for you. If not, take that steam and turn it into some good energy. )

Very wise words, and I will certainly keep that in mind. Thank you.

 

[goldfish]

After reading your reply Doug, it seems all doom for the retail florist. If price is the deciding factor then florists have no chance.

Of course it is not the "deciding" factor, it's just one of the many factors that influence the value perception of a floral product.

But florists have been resisting the change of pricing structure for way too long IMO. The current pricing structure is outdated, because it is based solely on the cost (e.g., 3 x flower cost + 2 x container cost + labor cost), completely ignoring the value of flowers perceived by average consumers.

Another problem I see is our tendency to stick with what we want to sell at a premium, as opposed to selling the 'good enough' products that consumers are willing to pay for. This tendency, more than anything else, has seriously eroded our ability to compete in this market. Perhaps the best example is Poinsettia. Florists keep selling decorated Points, whereas the vast majority of consumers are flocking to Home Depot to buy no-frill Points.

Trying to differentiate us from mass marketers, doesn't mean that we have to narrow our market so much so that only 1% of population would want to buy anything from us. We desperately need to make our market bigger, and we can't do it if we keep our pricing out of the line with the reality of market place.

The old adage like "we can't compete on prices alone" is really a logical tautology, the worst example of excuse for why we don't have to do anything painful and will be OK.

I agree with Doug that prices of certain products, especially commodity flowers, must come down. If the only way to do that is to purchase shorter roses, then that's the way to go. We might still be able to sell longer-stem roses at a premium, although I doubt the majority of consumers would go for it.

 

[roysecityfloristand gifts]

Goldfish,
Not to be ugly, but I know why your little "gold" body turned "black"...you put forth consistently some of the most negative thoughts I've seen on FC.
I don't think that any of us have our heads in the sand about where the industry or our indivual shops stand. I do think that more positive post would be more helpful.
If I could have nominated Joyces post #23 in this thread, I would have, but no nomination button yet. (By the way thanks Ryan for the Thank You Button )
JMHO

 

[JoycesFlowersKC]

And perceived value doesn't have to be expensive. People nearly wet their pants for a little bit of glitter, cool ribbon, or some marbles in the bottom of a vase. Simple, inexpensive....yet uber-effective at my shop.

 

[prestonway]

Hmmmmm....

Interesting debate over the definition of a successful shop.

Now how much time was spent in this debate, instead of selling flowers?

Me thinks all participants protest...FAR TOO MUCH!!!!

 

[goldfish]

I don't think that any of us have our heads in the sand about where the industry or our indivual shops stand. I do think that more positive post would be more helpful.

You know, if you have to refute or disagree with anything I post, please criticize it point by point. I will respond to any criticism as I have always done. That would be most helpful.

 

[David]

The only way to survive is to have something that your competition does NOT. We cannot beat the grocery stores in convenience and low prices….so have better quality!

I believe you can compete on price. Perhaps not on every item and every day but on most days. As far as quality goes. Whole Foods does a better job of quality then lots of florist.

If supermarkets have such phenomenal merchandise….why aren’t those floral people *allowed* on this forum??? Perhaps I am missing something……

How do you know this? Is this true?

]They aren’t looking for those roses. If they wanted them, then they would get them while they are grocery shopping. They want something OTHER than what they see at the grocery store. That is why they come to me. )

Could you give some examples. I would like to view your web site. Can you add it to your profile?

I’m not making assumptions about what they want. This is what I provide…you can take it or leave it. If you want the consumer dozens…go to the grocery. If you want fan-freaking-tastic roses that would never be found in a grocery….then come to me.

Who is your grower? Do they not sell to grocery stores? What makes them so great.

If people can purchase a C&C rose bunch for $12.99 at the grocer, and get the EXACT same bunch at the B&M for $14.99….why are they going to pay the extra $2 AND have the added inconvenience? They are NOT. They don’t care about our expenses…and why we have to mark things up more…yadda yadda…..

I think they will. It does take time to build a following.

The indie HAS TO have something that the grocer does not. The day that the grocery has a dozen Unique Farms 70cm Freedoms, in an 11” garden vase, with three types of greenery, misty, statice and an organza ribbon…am I going to sit down, @@@@@, moan, cry and concede defeat!?!?!

I don't think the grocery store is our competition for the item you described. Most consumers are not looking a grocery store for it.

]I am here for a purpose, and that purpose is to grow into a mountain, not shrink to a grain of sand. Henceforth, I will apply all of my efforts and knowledge to become the highest mountain of all, and I will strain my potential until it cries for mercy.

I hope that you are successful.

 

[JoycesFlowersKC]

Can't respond as well as i would like to the last post, FC mobile is a bit wonky and I'm having a tough time figuring it all out....
My website is www.lenexaflorist.com and it is on my profile, so I reckon you are calling me out on my generic TF site. Yup, that's what I've got. My dozen roses pictures are custom though ;o) I am also in the midst of the very long process of taking pictures of my own arrangements, and developing my own website.
Whole Foods does have okay flowers. If you like them fully blown, not refrigerated and in consumer cello.
The point I am trying to make, and people apparently are not grasping my concept....is that it seems to me that the B&M florists are sitting around complaining till they are blue in the face that OGs, WS and supermarkets are destroying our business, causing indies to shut down, and general gloom and doom. I'm saying that the steak house proprioters are not sitting around having a pitty party about Steak & Shake ruining their business. They realize that though there are some people who will prefer the $5 steakburger and a chocolate shake (at 3am no less!!) there ARE people out there that want/appreciate
a $50 cut of meat, with a glass of good red wine, all served to them by a sharply dressed waiter. Quit the complaining people, and set yourselves apart from the run-of-the-mill flowers that you can find on every street corner. If you can't understand this very basic concept, then you honestly have no room for complaint.

 

[JoycesFlowersKC]

I do not know for certain that grocery florists are not in fact allowed on here. It is an assumption, that is why I asked if I was missing something. I know that there is one gal on here, I believe she has posted something in this thread, that is housed in a grocery, but is not a part of the grocery, she just rents space. And if I'm not mistaken, a while back she was grilled and raked over the coals and told that she didn't belong here. I may be cofused and wrong though.

 

[goldfish]

I believe you can compete on price. Perhaps not on every item and every day but on most days. As far as quality goes. Whole Foods does a better job of quality then lots of florist.

This is also true for many supermarkets in Long Island. In our area, "Wild by Nature" (organic grocer) and "Stop and Shop" both offer good-quality flowers.

"Wild by Nature" floral department is run by a wholesaler/importer called "Dutch Petals" (http://www.dutchpetals.com/) located here in Long Island. The lady at the counter is a professional florist who used to run her own shop. They are a very serious competitor for us, for the simple reason that they offer high-quality flowers at good prices. Their rose prices are $14.99 for dz (50-cm). While these prices are low, but not that low. We can certainly compete and we do. We sell, for example, unarranged no-frill dz roses (50 cm) at $15.99 C&C.

"Stop and Shop" has a very large floral department who also does weddings, funerals, and deliveries. They are also an FTD member. While their quality is not as good as 'Wild by Nature', they would beat many independent florists in freshness. I think this has a lot to do with their quicker turn-over.

Another good supermarket in the East Coast is "Price Chopper." Just like "Stop & Shop", they do weddings and funerals. I read in Super Floral magazine that some Price Chopper store does ~150 weddings a year. The CEO said they take floral department very seriously. They use Cold-Chain to transport flowers from Miami.

As Sandy said somewhere in this thread, this old notion of 'supermarket florals = crappy' is simply outdated. I think it has a lot to do with the fact that it's far easier to find faults in others than in themselves.

 

[theRKF]

The only way to survive is to have something that your competition does NOT. We cannot beat the grocery stores in convenience and low prices….so have better quality! Show more creativity! USE YOUR TALENT TO SET YOU APART!!!! We cannot beat OGs in mass advertising and convenience…so figure out a creative solution to advertising, and give every single person an EXPERIENCE when they are ordering on the phone. Don’t just provide order-by-number. Have someone that can talk them through the process and figure out just what that *purple flower that’s really small and ruffle-y and smells so good* that is her favorite flower. Do you think that a 1800 operator is capable of doing that?????

Smart advertising and trained sales staff - that's an excellent start, and goes a long way toward giving customers a professional experience

I think it’s a QUALITY issue. If I saw a can of Folgers behind the counter at Starbucks, I would no longer be a customer….I can easily make a cup of Folgers at home. Starbucks is selling something that McDonald’s does not….people make it with quality ingredients right in front of your face. That IS the difference between B&M and a grocer. Theirs is a mass produced, inexpensive product. Ours on the other hand is a CUSTOM MADE, quality product. Is the exact same concept. If supermarkets have such phenomenal merchandise….why aren’t those floral people *allowed* on this forum??? Perhaps I am missing something……

To clarify:
- Supermarkets do have the same - or better - product selection. They often have access to the growers before you or your wholesalers, and they take cold chain and product treatment seriously.
- Supermarket florists are definitely welcome here. It would be foolish to not include them, as they are the largest retailers of flowers in North America. (Speaking generally) Sticking our collective heads in the sand and pretending they are substandard or going away would be short sighted.

Kick some ass people!!! WE ARE NOT DEFEATED! Do whatever it takes to set yourself apart…people WILL notice…and they WILL appreciate it. There are always going to be tight-wads out there. Stop trying to please them…and focus your energy on the customers that do understand the meaning of quality and worksmanship. Isn’t that what we should be about????

Well said - we need to encourage the motivation and the kicking of some butt I just don't know if the economic and consumer realities of the day indicate that we can ignore the low-price consumers. How can we channel some of that passion and creativity into finding ways to capture the low price purchases and use that revenue to support the higher-end business?

 

[goldfish]

The point I am trying to make, and people apparently are not grasping my concept....is that it seems to me that the B&M florists are sitting around complaining till they are blue in the face that OGs, WS and supermarkets are destroying our business, causing indies to shut down, and general gloom and doom. I'm saying that the steak house proprioters are not sitting around having a pitty party about Steak & Shake ruining their business. They realize that though there are some people who will prefer the $5 steakburger and a chocolate shake (at 3am no less!!) there ARE people out there that want/appreciate a $50 cut of meat, with a glass of good red wine, all served to them by a sharply dressed waiter. Quit the complaining people, and set yourselves apart from the run-of-the-mill flowers that you can find on every street corner. If you can't understand this very basic concept, then you honestly have no room for complaint.

I'm sure "people" are getting your points, because yours is basically what most florists have been saying for decades. Your "concept" is nothing particular new, to be honest with you.

Let me just say the idea that florists (or small retailers in general) must distinguish themselves from mass marketers, does have some merit. So let me be clear on that. But problem goes a lot deeper than this simple slogan and here's why.

1) There has been "commoditization" of many flowers. What this means is simply that average consumers expect a certain price for these flowers. For roses, they expect the price to be in the range of $10-$15 a dozen. If a florist is selling a dz-rose arrangement at $65 as you do, consumers must be persuaded by the florist that $50 difference is worth it.

Now you say, it's worth and you can "prove" it. Fine. Unfortunately, a lot of people are not being persuaded by it. Lots and lots of them.

2) Going after a segment of consumers who still prefer $65 rose-arrangement, could work only if that segment is large enough to sustain this business model. In your analogy, if your town has a population of 10,000, and only 100 people go for $50 steak regularly, you can't run your restaurant profitably.

So the question is not really whether florists should try to distinguish themselves from other competitors. Of course they should. The real issue is whether we can do it without changing at least some of the pricing, particularly that of commodity flowers like roses.

To say "yes we can" implies that there must be a large enough segment that pays that price. I don't think there's any evidence for that; in fact much evidence is against it.