Wire Service's Quality Assurance Programs

I really appreciate the positive attitude of JoycesFlowersKC, you are correct that sitting around complaining isn't going to help anyone survive or thrive-but I do believe Goldfish is spot on in his analysis. It used to be that any old florist could charge more for their flowers in order to cover their costs (and actually make some money). It's just not so anymore. Yes, there are markets where a higher end specialized product is still in demand....but not very many any more. Flowers are going the way many other industries have already.....the independent, full service, B&M is going to become more and more rare in the next couple of years. Those that do survive, most likely, will be in larger markets, have very good controls in place regarding labor, COGS, inventory, etc. High quality is a must. The fact of the matter is, many florists have survived in the past due to lack of competition.

P.S. I'm one of those grocery stores, by the way! There are a few more on here as well.
 
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I'm not able to use quotes on the mobile version here....
I fully realize that my "concept" is not unique, or new. But I think it's very basic, and employs good ol' common sense. Do you think that COACH will ever drop their purse prices to compete with the Kathy Lee line at K-mart??? I doubt it. I'm not going to apologize for my prices, they are very fair for the level of product/creativity provided. I'm not coming down on my prices to appease the people that want a dozen roses for under $15. This has been my business model for the last four years, I have had significant increases every year, except this year where I am down $2k for the year.
Now I am going to stop trying to defend my common sense approach to my business, and I'm going to watch the parade, and oogle the 150,000 roses that are supposed to be on each float. :)
 
Do you think that COACH will ever drop their purse prices to compete with the Kathy Lee line at K-mart??? I doubt it.

It's almost one-year old story, but here you go: Coach lowers prices 10% after earnings drop 14%.
Just kidding. It really doesn't matter what Coach does. It's not relevant.

You seem to like analogies, but please be aware that analogies are not without pitfalls. Handbag industry, steak-house industry, and flower industry all work in different models. You can't say, for example, "Look at Tiffany, that should be our model, because they are doing fine!" It's not that simple.

While there may be still plenty of people who want to spend $500 for a handbag, this fact neither proves or disproves that there will also be a plenty of people who pay $65 for your roses. The former has nothing to do with the latter.

Also, I congratulate on your growth for the last 4 yrs, I really do. But that, too, is not relevant. New biz will grow by default, because the starting point is below the market equilibrium. I think it was Ken Royer who said that anyone can build a $200K shop almost overnight. While his is a bit of exaggeration, but the point is that start-up florist's growth is not unexpected. We grew too, by the way. Does it mean anything? Well, I know what experienced florists would say: no.
 
I've been accused of being an "old bag", but, in the theory of evolution, I'M THE COACH in these parts, and I SAY what and when my prices will be, and I'M the one that "other" shops call to "sneak" my pricing info, and I'M the ONE, that has a feeble vision of what I NEED to pay my bills
 
It's almost one-year old story, but here you go: Coach lowers prices 10% after earnings drop 14%.


Also, I congratulate on your growth for the last 4 yrs, I really do. But that, too, is not relevant. New biz will grow by default, because the starting point is below the market equilibrium. I think it was Ken Royer who said that anyone can build a $200K shop almost overnight. While his is a bit of exaggeration, but the point is that start-up florist's growth is not unexpected. We grew too, by the way. Does it mean anything? Well, I know what experienced florists would say: no.

I haveaccepted the fact that we will not grow anymore. This is it and its time to make do with what we are getting!!
 
I haveaccepted the fact that we will not grow anymore. This is it and its time to make do with what we are getting!!

I know exactly what you are saying, because I sometimes kind of feel the same way in a dark rainy night. But if we don't grow, how can we possibly recover all the money we threw into the business? Scary thought...
 
Good God!!!!!! I wish I could access smileys on here....and that there was one with a mess of blonde hair bashing it's head against the wall!!!!!!!
Flowers are a LUXURY PURCHASE!!!!!!! How many times has that been said in the past????? Gues what?!?!? Starbucks, Steak Houses, COACH and Tiffany are ALSO LUXURY PURCHASES!!!! Look to what those people do...,and how they are surviving alongside the Mcdonalds, the Steak & Shakes, K-Marts and Claires!!!! Why on Gods green earth does this have to be friggin rocket science?!?!?!?!?
 
Oh, and I did not start my shop from the ground up. It was 31 years old when it became mine, the previous owner was filing bankruptcy after doing 65% (gasp!!!) wire-in orders, and had a lot of people thinking that Joyce's Flowers just plain sucked.
I turned that around in a big way with the idea that if you offer a superb product at a fair price, work your butt into the ground the first few years, and make friends with every single person that walks through your doors. And I have succeeded.
 
Good God!!!!!! I wish I could access smileys on here....and that there was one with a mess of blonde hair bashing it's head against the wall!!!!!!!
Flowers are a LUXURY PURCHASE!!!!!!! How many times has that been said in the past????? Gues what?!?!? Starbucks, Steak Houses, COACH and Tiffany are ALSO LUXURY PURCHASES!!!! Look to what those people do...,and how they are surviving alongside the Mcdonalds, the Steak & Shakes, K-Marts and Claires!!!! Why on Gods green earth does this have to be friggin rocket science?!?!?!?!?

Oh, and I did not start my shop from the ground up. It was 31 years old when it became mine, the previous owner was filing bankruptcy after doing 65% (gasp!!!) wire-in orders, and had a lot of people thinking that Joyce's Flowers just plain sucked.
I turned that around in a big way with the idea that if you offer a superb product at a fair price, work your butt into the ground the first few years, and make friends with every single person that walks through your doors. And I have succeeded.

I concede defeat and will move on. Was nice to talk to you and have a happy new year. Bye.
 
My website is www.lenexaflorist.com and it is on my profile, so I reckon you are calling me out on my generic TF site. Yup, that's what I've got. My dozen roses pictures are custom though ;o) I am also in the midst of the very long process of taking pictures of my own arrangements, and developing my own website.
Whole Foods does have okay flowers. If you like them fully blown, not refrigerated and in consumer cello.

When you left click a members name a box drops down with the profile information. Your web site is not listed. I wanted to see your web site as I figured it would show your work so I could better understand where you were coming from. You seem to hate the order gatherer's yet you have a wire service site and support one of the largest og with your membership dollars. I do like your custom rose images. Your site is very limited and needs to have Christmas removed. A good site takes time to manage. You need to fix your existing site while planning your next site. Might want to check into a Strider or other independent site. Your take on whole foods is not the same as mine.
 
Well, I am sorry that you don't like my site. It is adequate enough for the time being, while I invest my energy in a venture that won't line the Resnick pockets. I am sorry that 9 years in management with a grocery store is qualified as "very limited experience". I am sorry that I don't think 40cm Charlottes and Gold Strikes are a high quality flower. I am sorry for trying to maintain a positive outlook in the midst of several defeatists. And most of all, I am sorry to have wasted a good amount of my time the last few days trying to shed a little bit of light on all of this doom and gloom. Goodnight.
 
Well, I am sorry that you don't like my site. It is adequate enough for the time being, while I invest my energy in a venture that won't line the Resnick pockets. I am sorry that 9 years in management with a grocery store is qualified as "very limited experience". I am sorry that I don't think 40cm Charlottes and Gold Strikes are a high quality flower. I am sorry for trying to maintain a positive outlook in the midst of several defeatists. And most of all, I am sorry to have wasted a good amount of my time the last few days trying to shed a little bit of light on all of this doom and gloom. Goodnight.

It's not that some people don't understand your point of view.....some just happen to disagree with it :) This forum is full of threads in which different points of view are expressed. You are not going to convince everyone to see things "your way" and will most likely go crazy trying. Differing points of view is what makes the FC world go around-it's not personal. I appreciate all points of view that I am exposed to on this forum, because even if I don't agree with them they make me think and look at things a little differently. A big problem I see when there is disagreement is that so many use their own situation and apply it across the board to the whole industry. What may work for some doesn't always work for others in different markets or geographic areas. The wires services are a good example: Some here absolutely abhor them. Others have found a way to make them work. Others yet continue to have no idea how they affect their bottom line and just keep plugging away. While your business model may be working for you now-it may not work for you in 5 or 10 years. I think that's the point of some of the different points of view on this thread. While your strategy of going after the luxury market is good for now....trends across the country are showing that flowers are becoming a commodity....and sooner or later, your own customers may not see the value in your $65 roses. I'm not saying it's a sure thing, but it's at least worth looking at that possiblity and having a plan to combat it. There are plenty of florists on this forum who have used your business model for years and for many years it worked for them. Many are now finding out that it isn't working any more. Some continue to do well.....but many more are finding decreasing sales and decreasing profits.

Some of the most valuable information I have gained from FC is that I now feel I have a broader view of the big picture and where the trends are heading. Being in the midwest, I know that I don't feel the effects of things as soon as those on the coasts do. What happens on the coasts or in the major metro areas is a good indication of what may be coming down the road-even if it's years later. So, even though the way I do business in my little corner of Northern WI is working for me now, I need to pay attention to what's happening across the country (or world!) because it may (and probably will) eventually find it's way to me.

Please don't think your discussion here was a waste of time.
 
Well, I am sorry that you don't like my site. It is adequate enough for the time being, while I invest my energy in a venture that won't line the Resnick pockets. I am sorry that 9 years in management with a grocery store is qualified as "very limited experience". I am sorry that I don't think 40cm Charlottes and Gold Strikes are a high quality flower. I am sorry for trying to maintain a positive outlook in the midst of several defeatists. And most of all, I am sorry to have wasted a good amount of my time the last few days trying to shed a little bit of light on all of this doom and gloom. Goodnight.

I believe that two of the comments you refer to above were possible made by me, so I would like to take a moment to explain them.

First , when I referred to your "limited experience" I was alluding to the fact that you yourself stated that you had worked for one grocery chain in its four locations. My comment was intended to point out that this is "very limited experience" to judge an entire industry by. I stand by this comment. The reality is that in the grocery industry the "big boys" do take the care and handling and sales of flowers very seriously. That is in fact why they need to be respected as serious competitors, at the end of the day your opinion or anyone else's on this board as to how the supermarkets sell flowesr and what they sell is a moot point. The only opinion that matters is the consumers, and they have thrown a great deal of their support behind supermarket and mass marketers flower departments, last stats I read said about 40%!

As for 40 cm Charlotte's and Gold Strikes, a roses "quality" is not a factor of its stem length. Every rose variety has different characteristics, ie petal count, fragrance, longevity none of which are directly determined by the length the grower chooses to cut the stem. While some rose varieties tend to "throw" more short stems, stem length tends to be more of an issue based on market demand. Again the reality is that the supermarkets have done an incredible job over the years at introducing the consumer to 40's and 50's at very reasonable prices. This has in general been extremely well accepted by the consumer who sees value in a reasonably priced rose, even if you do not.

As for some individuals on this board being defeatists, that may be true. However I prefer to believe that many individuals on this board (myself included) are realists and see that are industry has changed dramatically over the last 2-3 decades. I believe we also see that what may have worked a quarter century ago in this industry will not work today. So what in fact may seem "defeatist" to you is in many cases a call to action and for change within the "mom and pop" sector of our industry so that we will survive the decades to come.

On a last note, I am happy that your own sales are increasing and you should be commended for that. But ( there's usually a "but") many of the individuals on this board have seen their own sales and /or profits plummet due to factors such as supermarket and internet competition. Keep in mind that some of these individuals are not giving up easy and have been fighting the battle for some time.
 
I have to chime in on this thread - but before I do, please understand that I am not now nor have I ever been a business owner. Perhaps you may think that my comment is skewed, but I assure you I do have a lot of business knowledge.

While I admire Joyce's position and shop successes, that unfortunatly is not true for a good many florists in this nation. I was speaking with an aquaintance of mine.......and he tells me that there is not one shop in the Columbia area that is NOT struggling in this economic environment we are in. I say aquaintance, because I doubt if the gentleman considers me a friend......at least by my definition of a friend.

I believe that we need and should consider pricing in our business plans.........to say we cannot compete on price used to be my arguement, however, I have seen cases where we CAN do just that. Price however is not the only factor we need consider. Now, Joyce made a statement that reflects how America views flowers and it is that mindset that can be changed most effectively with competitive and attractive pricing. She said that flowers are a luxury item - Why is that? Simply, we as florists have made it that way........Teleflora cames to be the first wire service to create the 'keepsake gift container' Our advertising promotes flowers as gifts.......we sell by occasion.

Pricing can help us stir the everyday, day in, day out, flower purchaser who simply wants flowers for the sake of having flowers.

It would be interesting to ask florists like Goldie for instance......who promote competitive pricing.......if that has helped them to see an influx of REGULAR, REPEAT, FLOWER BUYERS who just like flowers.
 
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It would be interesting to ask florists like Goldie for instance......who promote competitive pricing.......if that has helped them to see an influx of REGULAR, REPEAT, FLOWER BUYERS who just like flowers.

We are not a good example, because I'm a man and don't do what I preach. :)

If we are looking for a very good example of value pricing, look no further: Oberer's in Ohino (RC). http://www.oberers.com/ Take a look at the arrangement at front page. Is anyone here who is selling that kind of arrangement for $19.95? That's what I'd call competitive pricing. (He is a member of FC. He comes and goes, depending on how pissed he is when someone disagrees with him. I miss him.)

Anyway, I know what everyone would say: Randy can do this, because his shop is big and has a lot of purchasing power. Well that's part of the reason. But remember that COGS is only about 30-40% of the price. Even if he was able to get all his flowers FREE, the best discount he could offer is up to 30-40% off. As you can see, his price goes well beyond that.

Basically, I believe his operation is super-efficient like Wal-Mart. There are so much to learn from a florist like him.
 
We are not a good example, because I'm a man and don't do what I preach. :)

If we are looking for a very good example of value pricing, look no further: Oberer's in Ohino (RC). http://www.oberers.com/ Take a look at the arrangement at front page. Is anyone here who is selling that kind of arrangement for $19.95? That's what I'd call competitive pricing. (He is a member of FC. He comes and goes, depending on how pissed he is when someone disagrees with him. I miss him.)

Anyway, I know what everyone would say: Randy can do this, because his shop is big and has a lot of purchasing power. Well that's part of the reason. But remember that COGS is only about 30-40% of the price. Even if he was able to get all his flowers FREE, the best discount he could offer is up to 30-40% off. As you can see, his price goes well beyond that.

Basically, I believe his operation is super-efficient like Wal-Mart. There are so much to learn from a florist like him.

I have to ask the question ...... What came first, the chicken or the egg?

Or in this case, the florists success and size, or providing value to their customers?

My point here is that just maybe he is "big and has lots of purchasing power" due to the fact he offers his clientele great value and by doing so has grown his business to the point where he can buy at less cost and be more efficient.

Just a thought....
 
I have to ask the question ...... What came first, the chicken or the egg?

Or in this case, the florists success and size, or providing value to their customers?

I think the "egg" (value) must come first, or the "chicken" (size) will never be born. As the old adadge goes, you plant seeds first and harvest the fruits later, not the other way around.

For that $19.99 rose arrangement, actually almost any florist can sell one of those if we want to. All it has in the arrangement is 12 stems of 40's in assorted colors and a few sticks in a bubble bowl. Even for a small shop, the cost would be $7 or so.

No florist, however, will be able to survive by making a meager $13 gross margin per sale (i.e., $19.99 - $7 cost). I suspect that's the case for even a big, efficient shop like Randy's. But here's the thing...

I think one key metric in florist micro economy is the 'minimum gross margin required per sale' (let's call it MGMPS): total fixed expenses divided by average sales count. For example, if the monthly fixed expenses is $10,000 (rent, utilities, payroll, etc) and average sales count is 300 per month, 'MGMPS' is $33 ($10,000 / 300). This shop must make $33, on average, every time it sells something.

The problem that most florist are facing is that MGMPS has been increasing, because the fixed expenses has been increasing with no concomitant increase of sales count . The florists have tried to compensate that by increasing the price, which aggravated the problem, because high-margin sale always suppresses the sales count. Now that instead of ahving to make $33 per sale, this shop must make, say, $40 per sale, because the sales count decreased. Higher-margin -> lower sales count -> more higher margin -> even less sales count -----> It's a vicious cycle, which may eventually lead to oblivion.

What $19.99 rose sales might do (I'm jusy guessing because I'm not RC spokesperson) is that it helps reverse the cycle. It will increase the sales count or at least stop the hemorrhage, by keeping price-consious consumers engaged with his shop rather than letting them go to supermarkets. These customers in turn, when occasions come, will be ordering more profitable products with him.

By contrast, if a shop only sells $65 rose arrangement, it will probably decrease the sales count further, eventually all the way down to the 'hard core' loyalists whose number may not be large enough to sustain the business.
 
BOSS's Second Quote of the Day!

As for some individuals on this board being defeatists, that may be true. However I prefer to believe that many individuals on this board (myself included) are realists and see that are industry has changed dramatically over the last 2-3 decades. I believe we also see that what may have worked a quarter century ago in this industry will not work today. So what in fact may seem "defeatist" to you is in many cases a call to action and for change within the "mom and pop" sector of our industry so that we will survive the decades to come.
Boy, two in one thread....

Excellent discussion!