Announcement Change Is Here!

[steve]

Mark I know you believe in your floral future I guess my thoughts are if a person believes in there floral future then they got to get involved $100.00 is not much when you consider what our potential could be. And if they don't believe in there floral future then they should do some serious soul searching.

 

[shannonlovesflowers]

I'm sitting on the fence. There are a couple of things that do bother me.

1) Value of a forum
... is pretty much wholly created by the members who contribute the ideas, information, and opinions. The forum owner (in this case you) and admins provide the means that make that happen, but otherwise do not create the content. Content, which is the sole basis for why FC has been valuable to many, has been created by the contributing members, who are now being asked to pay.

This bothers me, because a countless number of posters (past and present) have volunteered our ideas, tips, opinions to make FC to become a valuable source. Yes, many of us have done it partly to gratify our ego, but it is also true that many of us actually wanted to be helpful. I know that many may not agree with what I write, but still, I believe my opinions have forced them to re-evaluate their own beliefs, which is a good thing.

Thing is, I didn't do it to profit from it myself, nor expected someone else to make money on the tips and ideas that I or others provide.

2) Intellectual property
As Cheryl asked earlier, I wonder who owns the copyright of the posts published in a forum. This question is not just academic, because with a paid membership, Strider will be "selling" the aggregate value of these posts that have been and will be created by members.

I have done a little search on this question, and my tentative conclusion is that original posters are implicit copyright owners. By posting in a forum, however, s/he grants the forum owner a license to publish, edit, delete them. What is not clear is if the forum owner can profit from these materials.

3) Expenses
I understand that there is an expense involved in hosting a forum. What I do not understand is $100/yr/person. With possible 2-3,000 paid subscribers, you would be raising a few hundred thousand dollars. I don't believe that Strider has been absorbing this much every year.

It wouldn't have bothered me, if the fee was a few dollars a year per subscriber. That would raise perhaps as much as several thousands a year, sufficient to pay for hosting (actual cost without profit) as well as aspirins and pack of beers for each moderator. Yes, you and admins would still have to work for free, but contributors too are working for free also.

4) Projects
The point #3 above brings up another issue: what are you going to do with the money raised? One way of looking at this paid structure is that members are being asked to invest money on your projects, the details of which are not clear to me.

-----

I just wanted to be candid as always.

last night I read this whole thread- all the way up to page 9 and Aileen post was the last.
I wanted to respond, but just couldn't find the words.... I sometimes say what I want to say the wrong way and it doesn't sound the way I want it too.

Goldie's post here is exactly how I feel.

 

[Rhonda]

I've read, I've re-read and now as an "invested member" since 2002? (when we got booted from the FTD message board - and we thought we were radical then LOL ).... I'd like to come on the ride....
Nuff said. If I don't like the road, I can pull over and stop.

Oh, BTW, if it wasn't for this board, I would not have learned this one thing that saved me well over $100........... ASK kits from Greenleaf - super time and effort saver well worth more than a $100 investment. How about the super sales from Dollar Tree?? How many have saved thanks to that little tip??? (ok sorry, I won't edit this post again)

 

[theRKF]

I consider a forum owner to be the landlord, not the store owner. What's in the store is not made by the landlord. They are made by the contributing members.

I understand where you're coming from - but let's look at a real-life example: www.experts-sexchange.com (FYI: I'm glad they switched the domain to incl the dash!)

Experts Exchange is a forum where members are able to have other members help with IT questions. The members pay fees for the privilege of asking and answering questions. Those who post accepted answers get rep points.

Most quality paid forums with beneficial, business-related info start from $100 / month (not year).

Regarding your landlord analogy -> The landlord in the website equation is the hosting company. They provide a fixed amount of empty space. FlowerChat is an operation that provides facilities, guidance, moderation, and development. It's nice that you think we should work for free, but I doubt you'd be so willing if a customer demanded their roses at cost. An online forum can be better likened to a florist or craft shop with a DIY section. We provide the location, the tools and oversight - even materials, in some respects. We're far more than a landlord whose only job is to keep the server on.

 

[sfox]

Watching this string of posts develop, one thing seems to be coming forward. It seems the ones most willing to pay to belong to the board are those who have a great need for the information that those poeple who provided that information are unwilling to pay to give out.

Without those providers, how willing will those in need be willing to pay?

 

[theRKF]

Watching this string of posts develop, one thing seems to be coming forward. It seems the ones most willing to pay to belong to the board are those who have a great need for the information that those poeple who provided that information are unwilling to pay to give out.

Without those providers, how willing will those in need be willing to pay?

I don't see that at all. But, you've made your intention clear and as stated previously I trust you to make a decision that is best for your business and wish you much success.

 

[Rhonda]

Watching this string of posts develop, one thing seems to be coming forward. It seems the ones most willing to pay to belong to the board are those who have a great need for the information that those poeple who provided that information are unwilling to pay to give out.

Without those providers, how willing will those in need be willing to pay?

I'd spend over $100 for one weekend at a design show/school and usually take home one or two little tricks or tips. At least there are more weekends here in a year for that same amount.

 

[Audra]

I guess for me this is good-bye. My finances are lean and mean enough that I don't have a spare $100 in the budget especially after the holidays. It's been a fun seven years, thanks to all for I've learned. Good luck to you all.

 

[Victoria]

When one doesn't have a "great need for information", one may as well shut the door. And further, the person who isn't willing to share what they know, certainly shouldn't waste their time on any board... free or not.

For as many days, and as many times as I have chosen over the years I have been a member of this community. I remember the birth of it. Many of us here were in the delivery room.

We've participated in it's successful growth. The knowledge gained here is worth its weight in gold and rises with the open participation of its members.

This is the best magazine in the industry I believe. We've had the benefit of all it has given for seven years. We've had business support, tech support, emotional support, design support and more, at no charge (donations excepted), to us.

Will I continue as a member? You bet, as long as I can give something of value and get something of value in return. It's my choice. It's your choice.

V

 

[Mikey the Flower Guy]

Yes Steve I do!

I've been doing this a long time. I have seen bad economies come and go, I have seen my 10,000 outbound orders a year cut to 1500 and at the same time seen my NET improve. I have seen the industry morph into something unimaginable even 10 years ago and I want to be part of the solution for the generations that follow. The retail flower business will never go away, and it will improve, especially if florists stop assisting the very companies doing the most damage today.

I know one thing Steve, I will not be on the design bench next Christmas, the good Lord shared that with me December 22nd at about 7:45pm, but I will always be in the flower business, I have a daughter in training and base all my decisions on her future.

how I WISH my children were the "future" of our business...so many things have changed, so few things have stayed the same.
One thing is truly for sure, we will soon see, how valuable a resource FlowerChat truly is...at 8 dollars and change a month, that "vested" members are potentially balking at!!
I really "wonder" how many of you would be willing to 'front" all the costs involved in running this forum, and how many of you would be truly willing to make this into a full time job, "au gratis".....how many THOUSANDS of hours at a "free" an hour rate of return.

 

[sfox]

I'd spend over $100 for one weekend at a design show/school and usually take home one or two little tricks or tips. At least there are more weekends here in a year for that same amount.

Rhonda, that's what I am saying. If those people who gave you those tips were no longer here, would the value to you be the same?

 

[theRKF]

This bothers me, because a countless number of posters (past and present) have volunteered our ideas, tips, opinions to make FC to become a valuable source. Yes, many of us have done it partly to gratify our ego, but it is also true that many of us actually wanted to be helpful. I know that many may not agree with what I write, but still, I believe my opinions have forced them to re-evaluate their own beliefs, which is a good thing.

And you would not have been able to to be so helpful without the existence and operation of FlowerChat. Additionally, the existence of a subscription fee will create a more professional audience for your advice and discussion, and a higher perceived value for the audience members (not to mention filtering out some trolls who try to gain access with fake accounts, etc.).

Did I mention we're adding more premium content?

As Cheryl asked earlier, I wonder who owns the copyright of the posts published in a forum. This question is not just academic, because with a paid membership, Strider will be "selling" the aggregate value of these posts that have been and will be created by members.

The content published on UGC sites is controlled by the publisher. Once the author submits the material, they relinquish control by granting license to the publisher (ex: letter to the editor). The author is responsible for the veracity of the content, but the publisher controls the use.

3) Expenses
I understand that there is an expense involved in hosting a forum. What I do not understand is $100/yr/person. With possible 2-3,000 paid subscribers, you would be raising a few hundred thousand dollars. I don't believe that Strider has been absorbing this much every year.

If we have 2-3,000 paying subscribers then we're likely to have 2,000 healthier florists in this world because of it. The question is this: Is each member getting $100 in value in a year?

If a florist based their pricing on "what do I need to cover costs and work for free" you'd find a clever way of calling them an idiot. You price your products and services in a way that allows you to provide value to each client.

4) Projects
The point #3 above brings up another issue: what are you going to do with the money raised? One way of looking at this paid structure is that members are being asked to invest money on your projects, the details of which are not clear to me.

I thought I had been clear on this previously, but I'll try again: You are paying for access to FlowerChat. FlowerChat creates revenue and might even surpass expenses. FlowerChat provides value to the members who reduce costs and sell more flowers.

BONUS: Some of the money raised will be reinvested directly in the floral industry. I could justly take that revenue and invest in non-floral business ventures (like a pizza joint in China ), I could consider upgrading my '97 Cavalier to an '05 Caravan, I could blow it all on the ponies down the street. But, we have committed to not stop with just having FlowerChat as our contribution to the floral industry - we're going out on a limb and saying - with our $$, not just platitudes - that we believe in this industry and we want to make it better. All of that is a bonus. The real value of paying for your FC membership is ... your FC membership.

I just wanted to be candid as always.

And as always, it's appreciated.

last night I read this whole thread- all the way up to page 9 and Aileen post was the last.
I wanted to respond, but just couldn't find the words.... I sometimes say what I want to say the wrong way and it doesn't sound the way I want it too.

Shannon, I'll send you a PM. I get what you're saying about things being spun out of context, so let's chat privately.

I think what is a puzzle is that the $ 100 is only the begininig...that "investment" will allow me to come here, play, post, read......then if I am reading this correctly, there will be additional charges for "other" projects...there does not seem to be an end to me being charged...all the while continuing to contribute to the success of the forum...or am I reading this incorrectly? So I contribute and then get to pay to do so...I really am not being sarcastic...it just is making me think I might not understand what is happening...

...I can also ask what I get in return and where is my money going to be spent....

I think I've answered this above, but I'll address again for clarity:

1. You pay for FlowerChat - in return you get FlowerChat
2. If you want in on the new project, you can opt to pay for that

The new project will be a separate entity, and I've tried to be very transparent about that. I mention it because it is an indicator of our commitment to florists.

 

[ivygreen]

Watching this string of posts develop, one thing seems to be coming forward. It seems the ones most willing to pay to belong to the board are those who have a great need for the information that those poeple who provided that information are unwilling to pay to give out.

Without those providers, how willing will those in need be willing to pay?

That's a cheap shot and well beneath you.

I have enjoyed your posts and have often seen you take the other side of the issue, sometimes I think for the sake of argument. You have brought valid points to the table when every one else was content to go along. I admire that you think for yourself, and give you credit for doing it even when I disagreed.

That last remark smacks of back patting and the type of self indulgence I would not have attributed to you.
Argue pay or don't pay, but leave the playground cheap shots out.

You have learned something, gained something, enjoyed something along the way enough to keep coming back. Perhaps you will find enough value to pay to be here, or not. Suggesting everyone who chooses to remain is beneath you is total BS.

 

[sfox]

That's a cheap shot and well beneath you.

I have enjoyed your posts and have often seen you take the other side of the issue, sometimes I think for the sake of argument. You have brought valid points to the table when every one else was content to go along. I admire that you think for yourself, and give you credit for doing it even when I disagreed.

That last remark smacks of back patting and the type of self indulgence I would not have attributed to you.
Argue pay or don't pay, but leave the playground cheap shots out.

You have learned something, gained something, enjoyed something along the way enough to keep coming back. Perhaps you will find enough value to pay to be here, or not. Suggesting everyone who chooses to remain is beneath you is total BS.

First, let me say I'm sorry if you think I was talking about myself. There is a whole group of other posters who have given freely of their advice that are of the same mindset as me. I also realize that the world does not revolve around me, but I have always hoped to provide a counter point to many issues in hopes of creating a better understanding.

 

[ivygreen]

I think some of those people who give advice have asked questions too. Or tossed ideas back and forth until they could hammer out their own plan. Or read threads where good ideas were being discussed and took away something. Or used what some else has posted to confirm their thought process. Or spied on their competitor by reading his/her threads.

The whole concept of all the good posters are too good for this board anyway is just very sad.

It's a paid subscription to read and participate. Potentailly great. If not don't renew.
Potenially awful. Worth the money for everyone who wants to gloat.
Can't be made happy either way? Don't subcribe.

 

[roysecityfloristand gifts]

sfox,

I sorta resent the inference, that because I have chosen to stay, that I must be the less educated, more needy, a newbie. I assure you I'm not. I have 30 years in this business.
I have shared my tips and ideas and offered my help to anyone who needed it. I knew about Dollartree vases long before it came up on the board. So I have something to offer.

We are not Lemmings willing to jump over the cliff just to follow the group. I and others are independent owners, looking for change. Ryan is apparently offering the change that we have all been arguing over for years and getting no where. Perhaps what he has envisioned will work perhaps it won't, but to do nothing is stupid. The alternative is just to close your doors and end it.

Like others, I have an adult son taking over my shop, and I want to pave his way through the WS mess, this industry has become. JMHO

 

[Audra]

Can we please rein in the tempers?

I would love to subscribe, honest I would but 2009 was not kind. My husband was laid-off, he got another job but with a huge reduction in wage, it's been a lean time for us. I cancelled our cable, we essentially cancelled christmas and our groceries are down to bare necessities. The subscription price equals a lot of groceries, clean clothing, gas for my vehicle. You can justify the money in any way you want but for me, I'm considering my pepsi a treat, I'm eating far more rice than I really like and I'd much rather spend the money on things I have to have like toothpaste and deodorant.

If it's a matter of principle for you, awesome. For some of us, it's a financial necessity that we don't. I'm sorry if that offends sensiblities.

 

[roysecityfloristand gifts]

Audra, I don't believe it's anyones intention to make someone feel badly about choosing not to come along for the ride. And...I think it will be a ride...into the unknown.
Only you know what is right for you, and everyone respects that. For me the $100.00 a year is worth it because as I said my son is taking over the business.

God bless you in whatever you decide to do. It will be the right thing for you and your family.

 

[CHR]

I really "wonder" how many of you would be willing to 'front" all the costs involved in running this forum, and how many of you would be truly willing to make this into a full time job, "au gratis".....how many THOUSANDS of hours at a "free" an hour rate of return.

Just want to repeat this.

Also want to suggest that members who don't have the resources to subscribe for a year can opt for a month-to-month plan for just $20.

I know of at least 1 company who's committing to participate at the $500 level and I'm sure there are others.

 

[Audra]

Just want to repeat this.

Also want to suggest that members who don't have the resources to subscribe for a year can opt for a month-to-month plan for just $20.
I know of at least 1 company who's committing to participate at the $500 level and I'm sure there are others.

It's a neat concept - it allows for short term membership but it's not practical long term - $100 vs $360. As I said to Ryan in private, I'd love to stay but if the money isn't there, it's just not there.

Don't get me wrong, I understand the realities that require Flowerchat to take this step. I'm just not solvent enough to take that step too.