"Free to Screw the Customer"

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After reading the many posts on this topic it comes down to people on this board blaming the florist in question or FTD.

The problem shows the differences between

How florists on this board view themselves vs other florists and the perceptions of FTD and the realties of FTD.

First, as to florists. I want to think that everyone on this board is an upstanding florist who understands how to treat a customer that buys flowers. Unfortunately, not every florist in business today fits that description. Too many times people open flower shops because it's relatively easy and relatively cheap to do. Most wholesalers will sell to anyone that calls themselves a florist. Very few states require any kind of licensing. And too many times florists view a wire in order as theirs and only theirs once it comes to them via Mercury. They feel that they have to make a profit on every order and therefore filling to what they call their stores value is OK. Forget about the specifics that were sent in the order. I think most of the posters who posted negatively about the florist who filled the order in question viewed from their own idea of how a customers order should be handled. Unfortunately, not every florist has the same set of rules it seems most on this board do.

And as to FTD. Too many florists confuse their perception of FTD with the reality of today's FTD. Too many long time florists still think of FTD as it was when it was a member owned company. Today the reality of the modern FTD is no where near the FTD of old. Today, there is no requirements to show proficiencies in flower arranging in order to join. There are no requirements to have a certain amount of fresh flowers on hand. Quality is a word used to extract extra money every month from florists and flows directly to FTD's bottom line as profit because they have no quality control program. Hell, the only requirement today is that the florist must be able to pay the deposit and sign the agreement that allows FTD to charge them for everything down to and including the stamps it uses to mail out the bill.

While I feel sorry for the person who paid FTD to deliver a specific kind of arrangement, and recieved something totally opposite of that, there is nothing we as florists can do as long as florists are willing to pay the dues and 100's of assorted fees that FTD places on florists. These monies fund FTD and allow them take money from the consumer, make promises that are not able to be kept and MOST IMPORTANTLY, give the flower industry a black eye in the minds of the consumers.

The membership of florists to FTD funds these types of things and the fault lays with florists who are willing to let a company such as FTD kill their very livelyhood.
 
The fox is batting a thousand with that posting.
 
Carole -

I think sfox would and could write the same out 1-800 & TF, too but this particular thread is about a customer rightfully dissatisfied with an FTD purchase.

I meant the orginal post and complaint from the customer. (not anything ath sfox wrote)That first post seemed as if someone knew a little too much about how to get us to think 1-800 FLOWERS was so wonderful. The average customer wouldn't know the difference between the two brands.

Carol Bice
 
are wary of who holds the biggest rock!!

I think Doug is bang on...and TRUST IS the "issue".......

Mikey, TRUST may be the issue BUT how can you deliver something when you don't know what's promised ???????
 
I meant the orginal post and complaint from the customer. (not anything ath sfox wrote)That first post seemed as if someone knew a little too much about how to get us to think 1-800 FLOWERS was so wonderful. The average customer wouldn't know the difference between the two brands.

Carol Bice


What the average consumer doesn't understand about the two brands is the fact that they are the same kind of business model and you have the same 50/50 chance of getting your flowers from a good florist or a bad one....They actually think that 800-flowers will be making their flowers, with FTD consumers know it is a network of florists because of past branding...what they don't know is that neither company has any care in the world what happens to their order once they get paid for it...noone thinks twice as to who their order goes to and just deal with the fallout after the fact if something does go wrong...
 
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What the average consumer doesn't understand about the two brands is the fact that they are the same kind of business model and you have the same 50/50 chance of getting your flowers from a good florist or a bad one....They actually think that 800-flowers will be making their flowers, with FTD consumers know it is a network of florists because of past branding...what they don't know is that neither company has any care in the world what happens to their order once they get paid for it...noone thinks twice as to who their order goes to and just deal with the fallout after the fact if something does go wrong...

so, have we (REAL FLORISTS) "lost" the war???....
 
so, have we (REAL FLORISTS) "lost" the war???....


I wouldn't say lost the war, but we are definatly not winning by leaps and bounds...the longer we think we need the WS and support them, the longer we give them ample money to take our business from us, the more we cannot compete with their marketing efforts, the worse it gets for us...I know I am part of the problem, but still have 11 months to decide what I will do in terms of fixing my part of the problem...we are each only one in an army of many, we each must make decisions that are good for our companies, we each must decide whether supporting the very companies taking our business is further sealing our coffins down the road or helping to make our buisnesses stronger and more sound...

For some this is a very hard decision, for others it is a very easy one...for some the ease of doing business and the better sending abilities makes the ws profitable for some the technology is easier to obtain and pay for, there are so many variables and so many catches that make this the single most complicated and confusing and discouraging business decision many will make in their whole career...noone wants to make the wrong decision, but is the wrong decision already being made, history says yes...but will we listen or heed the warnings of history, this is the truer question...it is not that we want to support companies that are slowly killing us, it is that so many don't have the clear and right decision and ar afraid to make the wrong decision, which paralyzes us...I am hoping to find the resources I need to make the best decision I can in 11 months...I am hoping that I can make a break from the WS and be free of their shenanigans...for now that is all I can do...I aso hope that my Prozac keeps on working and making me make more sound decisions based on reality instead of overwhelming emotion that is the worst for making business decisions, I can tell you from makeing some really bad ones this last year...I am glad to report that I feel like I am getting a handle on myself, my emotions and my business and again feel like everything is going in a better direction than it was, we shall see how I feel at the end of september...

As for the war, it is true that if everyone dropped the WS they would have no choice but to dissappear, It would truly turn our industry on its ear, but that is just fantasy land thinking, it will not happen, they have made sure of it by exploiting our weaknesses, which is good business in many ways...it garauntees survival if done right...What we al need is to start thinking differently and for ourselves and not let the ideas of the past fog up our futures...We all need to go after our local business and yell from the rooftops that we are here and refuse to go away...we need to fight for our longevity instead of sit in our shops and wait for them to find us...hopefully.
 
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After reading the many posts on this topic it comes down to people on this board blaming the florist in question or FTD.

The problem shows the differences between

How florists on this board view themselves vs other florists and the perceptions of FTD and the realties of FTD.

First, as to florists. I want to think that everyone on this board is an upstanding florist who understands how to treat a customer that buys flowers. Unfortunately, not every florist in business today fits that description. Too many times people open flower shops because it's relatively easy and relatively cheap to do. Most wholesalers will sell to anyone that calls themselves a florist. Very few states require any kind of licensing. And too many times florists view a wire in order as theirs and only theirs once it comes to them via Mercury. They feel that they have to make a profit on every order and therefore filling to what they call their stores value is OK. Forget about the specifics that were sent in the order. I think most of the posters who posted negatively about the florist who filled the order in question viewed from their own idea of how a customers order should be handled. Unfortunately, not every florist has the same set of rules it seems most on this board do.

And as to FTD. Too many florists confuse their perception of FTD with the reality of today's FTD. Too many long time florists still think of FTD as it was when it was a member owned company. Today the reality of the modern FTD is no where near the FTD of old. Today, there is no requirements to show proficiencies in flower arranging in order to join. There are no requirements to have a certain amount of fresh flowers on hand. Quality is a word used to extract extra money every month from florists and flows directly to FTD's bottom line as profit because they have no quality control program. Hell, the only requirement today is that the florist must be able to pay the deposit and sign the agreement that allows FTD to charge them for everything down to and including the stamps it uses to mail out the bill.

While I feel sorry for the person who paid FTD to deliver a specific kind of arrangement, and recieved something totally opposite of that, there is nothing we as florists can do as long as florists are willing to pay the dues and 100's of assorted fees that FTD places on florists. These monies fund FTD and allow them take money from the consumer, make promises that are not able to be kept and MOST IMPORTANTLY, give the flower industry a black eye in the minds of the consumers.

The membership of florists to FTD funds these types of things and the fault lays with florists who are willing to let a company such as FTD kill their very livelyhood.

In general I have to agree with this posting with a couple of comments.

1) As to the varying level of qualified florists, your comment is right on the nose. During my years in the wholesale trade i dealt with many owners of shops that were incredible business people and would have succeeded in any business. Many of these individuals loved flowers, however first and foremost it was a business designed to make a profit.

However on the flip side we had the individuals who did not have the business skills to run a pay toilet, never mind a flower shop.

In between we had all levels of owners. The bottom line was that ther was no consistency in business, floral or customer service skills.

This is still the problem our industry suffers from


2) As to the perception of the "old FTD" versus "today's FTD". I personally believe that if FTD was still member owned it simply would not exist to any degree. While many of the changes we have witnessed at FTD have been driven strictly in the quest to improve the bottom line, r many have been in reaction to changing times, particularly the internet.

As an example, would a member owned FTD have launched FTD.com?

I highly doubt it. Most florists view it as a competitor that "steals" their orders. So where would the approximately 4 million orders FTD.com generates annually have gone. Directly to the retail florist?

Some surely would have, however lets not be naive, the reality is that a large portion of them would have ended up in the hands of the dreaded "OG's" as they are generally the only ones spending any amount of money on marketing. In fact how would a member owned FTD handle members that were in fact OG's? The average retail florist tends to use what I refer to as the "Field of Dreams" approach to internet marketing. In other words, "build it and they will come".

The other option would have been to develop a non-revenue FTD.com site that simply directed members to florists. That would have worked well, with no revenue to market the site (as has been done with the current one) companies like Proflowers and 1-800 Flowers would have reaped the rewards.

Would a member owned FTD have the ability to react quickly to the global changes in the floral industry?

Possibly, however with a diminishing membership base and assuming that the revenue from FTD.com did not exist where would funding come from? I can only imagine there would only be one source, the remaining members.

Please don't assume from the above statements that I live and die by FTD. The reality is that I simply view them as a "tool" that can be used in developing and running our business, nothing more. On the other hand I like to believe I am a realist.
 
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The reality is that I simply view them as a "tool" that can be used in developing and running our business, nothing more. .
/B] Doug, hate to say this but your remark is exactly what I was posting about. You have this idea that somehow you can use FTD as a "tool" to build your business.

Reality is much different.

They have more money than you do so they can out market you.

They drive away potential flower buying customers from buying any flowers by offerring all those high profit non floral gifts on their website.

They drive away potential flower buying customers from buying flowers becuase of screw ups like the original one that Cathy started this post with.

Doug, FTD is using florists, florists are not using FTD. As far as FTD being a tool. The only tool they have is aimed at your backside and they don't even use Vaseline or say thank you.
 
Above someone said they think even if FTD was still membered own that they would not exist to any great degree today. I agree with that 100 percent. I know some of the old timers will taunt how great it was back in its day but when I bought this business in 1993 and got involved in this industry my feeling after just a couple months was that they were a pretty screwed up orgainization. Of course it was sold not long after 93 and we all know what has happen.

Another person ask are we losing the war the answer is yes we are losing primarily because of our inability to come together as a group and market in a unified voice. Will we come together? There was a time I thought we would but as each month passes I believe that it becomes less likely.
 
Steve -

'Coming together' requires mutual benefit for those who come.

The reason FTD had to sell was because some of the florists with the most outgoing orders, some of the biggest equity holders in FTD, were sending their orders through other WSs to get rebates. The value of FTD dropped below the sum of the equity of the members so a sale was forced.

I also agree that FTD would be in worse shape today if florists owned it, due to the infighting.

Here's the inherent problem with coming together - two divergent philosophies about how to market to consumers:

Local is Best. A large number of florists believe ordering direct from a local florist offers the best consumer value and satisfaction. When asked, they will provide names of other shops.

We're Best. A significant portion of florists still think their companies are the only place consumers should ever order if they need flowers, regardless of the delivery location.

You can see if florists in the 'Local' camp pass on the names of shops in the 'We're Best' camp, they could well be cut out of future business with nothing in return.

The irony is that the 'We're Best' florists promote Local, too (as long as it's them) and many bemoan the very WSs they need to offer national service.
 
Here's the inherent problem with coming together - two divergent philosophies about how to market to consumers:

Local is Best. A large number of florists believe ordering direct from a local florist offers the best consumer value and satisfaction. When asked, they will provide names of other shops.

We're Best. A significant portion of florists still think their companies are the only place consumers should ever order if they need flowers, regardless of the delivery location.

You can see if florists in the 'Local' camp pass on the names of shops in the 'We're Best' camp, they could well be cut out of future business with nothing in return.

The irony is that the 'We're Best' florists promote Local, too (as long as it's them) and many bemoan the very WSs they need to offer national service.

I'm in the camp of "local is sometimes best and we're sometimes the best." It all depends on who the sending customer is and what they expect us to do. When it comes to wire services, practicality weighs heavier than ideology as far as I'm concerned.
 
However on the flip side we had the individuals who did not have the business skills to run a pay toilet, never mind a flower shop.

The reality is that I simply view them as a "tool" that can be used in developing and running our business, nothing more. On the other hand I like to believe I am a realist.

Love that first statement - quote of the year.

Concur completely with the second part.

You have this idea that somehow you can use FTD as a "tool" to build your business.

Reality is much different.

Doug, FTD is using florists, florists are not using FTD. As far as FTD being a tool. The only tool they have is aimed at your backside and they don't even use Vaseline or say thank you.

You're gonna have to speak for yourself there Foxxy cuz they surely ain't sodomizing me - it's more of a mutual deal.

I use them like a sleazy woman of the night, and I watch my wallet whilst enjoying their company and using the "tools" they provide.

Just because you can't figure out how to use them, don't assume others can't, because we can and do.
 
Just because you can't figure out how to use them, don't assume others can't, because we can and do.
bloomzie, I don't want to break this to you, but you are not using FTD, you are using your fellow florists because they are the one's picking up the tab for the deals FTD heaps on you. And more power to you, but don't make it seem that the problem doesn't exist.

Like all good liberals bloomzie, you don't see a problem as long as the problem isn't presently affecting you. FTD is the greatest thing for you as long as FTD can continue to hoodwink filling florists to accept your orders and keep them paying all those piles of dues and fees it slaps on those fillers and then passes a portion on to you.
 
I don't hate to break this to you Foxxer, but you don't know what you're talking about.

Hoodwink?

There's an army of florists out there just waiting for the Merc to go off.

Why I think..... - they may be using ME!

Where you been?

Busy updating your website? :rofl:
 
Todays target

The fact is that if the average retail florist spent less time worrying about all the forces supposedly arrayed against them and more time tending to their own business, customer service, and design skills this industry would be much stronger.

Retail (all retail) has changed drastically in the last 1-2 decades with the introduction of changes such as a proliferation of credit cards, the internet, increased non domestic production of goods (in our case South American flowers farms), and a more knowledgeable consumer. None of these were created by FTD, OG's, mass marketers, or any of the other "evil entities" that are often targeted on this board. These groups in most cases simply saw an opportunity and took advantage of it to profit. Isn't that concept still considered by some to be the definition of a good business person?

Retailers can either adapt to these changes and take advantage of them when possible or perish. Possibly what we are now seeing in our industry is a "culling" of those who have their head stuck in the sand or individuals who despite their lack of business skill managed to survive through better times. Now that times are not so good, they simply do not have the ability to adapt. As much as we all hate to admit it at times, our industry would in fact be better served if these individuals did leave the flower business.

I find it comical every time I hear about the "good old days" of FTD. As I recall there was a lot of crying and moaning in those days about the wire services. In fact I still recall when AFS first introduced the "rebate" and "loyal" FTD members were either outright jumping ship like drowning rats or making sure all their outgoings went to AFS for the extra $3.00. FTD was finally forced to match the rebate to stop the defection of it's members ( I believe Teleflora caved in prior to that). If memory serves me right back in those days the average order was about $40.00 which meant FTD's 7% equated to about $2.80 leaving them short about $0.20 every time they paid a rebate. I suspect that this may have been the reasoning behind the start of all the additional nickels and dimes they now charge members.

By the way, where is AFS today?

On a last note to the individual who feels FTD is attempting to violate us , I would suggest that in the future you try to keep your preferences to yourself. This is after all a place to discuss common business interests and practices.
 
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