"Free to Screw the Customer"

[Doug Munro]

I'll take the blame...I'm part of the problem, I didn't pay enough 'attention" to the above in my attempt to retain my consistency with what I do.....and the secret vendetta I have with the wire services....
Doug, there's a very good reason why we're down to less than 20 thousand florists...many shut down, and the remainder wised up...ONLY 20 thousand more to go.....the wire services "released" the high quality standards REQUIRED to be a member in favour of their bottom line...I'm afraid, THAT in itself, is evil, and has been the LARGEST single contributor to the "failures" of our industry!!

Mikey,

Let me get this straight..... now you feel that the wire services must take responsibility for the caliber of individual in the flower business.

LMAO

The wire services (with a possible exception of the original FTD) are not governing boards, they are businesses. They are are or should be no more responsible for qualifying florists than your local wholesale.

Sure at one time FTD did a pretty good job on ensuring its members met certain standards, however that went by the wayside for a number of reasons. I suspect the main one being as competing services opened up their entry requirements were a lot more lax. At one point as I recall there were wire services all over the country such as AFS, Carik, UFC, Redbook, etc. I also clearly recall the game of "musical chairs" that many florists were playing by belonging to 3 or 4 at a time, or jumping from one to another to save a few months on fee's or get an extra $1.00 on order bonuses.

The wire services have generally been viewed by many florists as a service that was put on the face of the earth as a convenience for them, to be used as they saw fit. With little if any consideration as to whether this allowed the wire services to be profitable. I learned a long time ago that in any business relationship that if "ALL" parties are not benefiting it will soon full apart, it must be Win/Win for all involved. The wire service/florist relationship has not benefited all parties for some time, both the wire services and the florist have been on the bottom end at different times.

Now your telling us these same services have a responsibility to police the industry. Get real. In today's world most flower shops (even the good ones) would tell a wire service "where to go" the first time they attempted to lay down any kind of law as to how the shop should operate. Need an example, just look at the "delayed response" program. Granted it isn't perfect, however something had to be done. It's sure going over well isn't it?

From my point of view the wire service model we have today unfortunately is no more or less than what we should expect in these changing times. This is just how I see it, unfortunately I suspect this will lead to someone on this board accusing me of "lining my pockets" from the wire services.

 

[lori042499]

One more thought on this thread....

There are so many comments made about how much focus is put on the WS being the evil empire...and no focus being put into our own branding, marketing and CS...While there may seem to be a whole lot of talk about WS and it may seem to many that this is all we do is @@@@@ and complaint about this subject, I am dead sure that most of us are working our butts off getting our own brands off the ground and doing what ever we can to get our own names know, to the best of our abilities...I know That my company in 3 1/2 years is growing by leaps and bounds, I am in a state of constatnt flux about what I should do about the WS and when I should cut ties and if I should cut ties, but it is not to the point that I am not focussing on the rest of my business...if that was true my local business would not be growing. It is just that I have a handle on all of the things that I don't talk about here, why do I need to talk about it if I have a handle on it...Why would I need other people's input on a an area that I am proficient in??? I only talk about the stuff I struggle with to learn alternate ways to view things, or get pearls of wisdom from other people that have been there done that...

I do pipe in when someone has faced a problem that I have been through and will add my 2 or 3 cents worth to help out...but I don't really need to broadcast my successes and toot my horn on a regular basis at every success story I encounter, that in itself gets way old...I do like to post some hopeful stories and some triumphs on occasion, but mostly I come here to troubleshoot areas of concern for myself, to gether a different view point, to debate things, to learn...

 

[Doug Munro]

I have never been against healthy discussion regarding the wire services and more importantly what role they play in building your business. However what I find frustrating and an incredible waste of energy is the instances where shops or individuals seem to go on the warpath against the WS's or OG's. My point has been all along that ranting about them will not make them go away, they are here to stay.

Do some of them at times engage in deceptive marketing practices, maybe so. But in all fairness many conduct business completely above board. If they have achieved better search engine placement in your area than you have as a local business, welcome to business on the internet. In cases where they outright claim to have locations (ghost shops) in area's where they do not exist, that's wrong. But to simply advertise delivery in an area where they don't have a physical presence is something virtually every flower shop has been doing since the first wire order was sent.

Trying to "educate" consumers or flower shops against them is like trying to boycott buying gasoline in the hope it will drive prices down, it just never gets off the ground. Worse yet promoting any negativity to the consumer about our industry is not in the long term a good thing to do.

The bottom line is that our industry is undergoing change, most of this change is not comfortable and some of it is outright difficult to except. I at times imagine this is what the local corner grocer or butcher went through decades ago with the advent of supermarket chains, wholesale clubs , etc.

 

[sfox]

Doug posted......."Mikey,

Let me get this straight..... now you feel that the wire services must take responsibility for the caliber of individual in the flower business."

They sure do Doug. You mentioned you ran a wholesaler. Well, you must have been responsible for the quality of the farms you did business with. I'm sure you did not do business with farms that consistently shipped you poor quality products. It was your name on the bill every time you sold your product to a customer florist.

FTD sells directly to the consumer. They have a responsibility to that consumer to make sure that the florists they have are able to produce quality arrangements.

But since FTD also gets revenue by simply signing up florists and collecting all those dues and fees, they are willing to sign up anyone without regard to the level of professionalism that shop can provide.

This hurts the industry as a whole. It gives flowers a black eye just like the first post by CHR pointed out that started this thread.

 

[Doug Munro]

Sfox,

My underlying point is that in general if FTD were to impose strict and hard rules as to a members skill level, those that wouldn't qualify or took offense to the process would simply jump ship. In fact that might provide the opportunity again for additional wire services to open to cater to this group.

I would be very interested to see a poll on this board asking how many owners would except a wire services evaluation of their shops ability and be willing to upgrade where necessary based on that evaluation.

I was recently in a meeting of successful shops where the concept of qualifying florists to fill orders was floated as a trial balloon. Virtually ever shop owner I spoke to there thought is was great idea for the other shops to be qualified. Naturally is was not an issue for their own shop as they only produced top quality work.

Based on that small sampling of individuals there is no need for the wire services to qualify shops because they are all doing a terrific job, just ask the owners.

 

[bloomz]

As a retail florist, I take offense to your statements.

I actually did post a reply to this thread with a solution that I think would help out fellow local florists by, at the very least, getting some conversation started about how we can do something about the situation.

However, since this thread has been "hijacked" by some of the big-guy, old-timers who are too busy trying to get the last word, smaller, newbie florists, like myself, are either too threatened to respond to the ideas I suggested, or my reply got lost in this thread. It's frustrating, to say the least.

Personally, the only cross I have to bear with WS and OGs are the deceptive internet marketing campaigns. I could get much better ranking if it weren't for the non-existent local florists in my community. They even go as far as adding local addresses to their names to make them look like local florists. One uses the address of the local library!!

Hopefully, one of the "hijackers" will read this reply and give us little guys a chance to speak.

So, as one of the hijackers - let me state"

You have the right to waste your time and your energy.

You hve the right to spin your wheels.

You have the right to join or quit.

You have the right to (try to) organize (Lord knows I tried once) and waste gads of time doing that too.

Youy have the right to rave endlessly about the same stuff we've be raving about for 10 years.

You have the right to watch nothing change, (except they grew and grew).

Been there done that for years I spun and griped and soapboxed and bent the ear of anyone who would listen.

About a dozen went "wire free" and about 5,000 went out of business.

Did you ever think perhaps a few of us are realists who've been there, done that, and found way way way better things to spend time on?


Thankfully for me, about 9 years ago someone (an old timer who ran a way more successful business than me) told me "JB you're wasting your time - you're not going to change the world - your job is to get out there and fight them for your share".

Changed my world, and led me to being way more successful florist. I truly believe we would never have grown had I remained stuck wasting time on futile projects (like "educating the public" about the evils of OGs)

Just trying to pass that along and maybe save someone else the wasted time and energy I did.

:newbie

You have the right to ignore this non asked for "advice".

I also have the right to be a realist and point out they will stop when unicorns graze in my back yard and monkeys fly out of my butt.

I have no need to have the "last word" so please feel free to...

carry on...

blessings

 

[CHR]

You have the right to File A Google Map Spam Report

You have the right to Write and call and keep calling your City Hall about the phony locals.

You have the right to file a complaint with your state Attorney General.
One florist, nearly alone, just got legislation passed and signed in Oregon last week (of all places...)

Requires person engaged in floral retail sales to disclose principal place of business when not in state.

You have the right to File a Complaint with the FTC.

You have the right to file a complaint with the dOGs wire service. Put it in writing and send a copy to your state AG and the FTC.

You have every right to be angry, but don't just stop there.

 

[Flore]

So, as one of the hijackers - let me state"

You have the right to waste your time and your energy.

You hve the right to spin your wheels.

You have the right to join or quit.

You have the right to (try to) organize (Lord knows I tried once) and waste gads of time doing that too.

Youy have the right to rave endlessly about the same stuff we've be raving about for 10 years.

You have the right to watch nothing change, (except they grew and grew).

Been there done that for years I spun and griped and soapboxed and bent the ear of anyone who would listen.

About a dozen went "wire free" and about 5,000 went out of business.

Did you ever think perhaps a few of us are realists who've been there, done that, and found way way way better things to spend time on?


Thankfully for me, about 9 years ago someone (an old timer who ran a way more successful business than me) told me "JB you're wasting your time - you're not going to change the world - your job is to get out there and fight them for your share".

Changed my world, and led me to being way more successful florist. I truly believe we would never have grown had I remained stuck wasting time on futile projects (like "educating the public" about the evils of OGs)

Just trying to pass that along and maybe save someone else the wasted time and energy I did.

:newbie

You have the right to ignore this non asked for "advice".

I also have the right to be a realist and point out they will stop when unicorns graze in my back yard and monkeys fly out of my butt.

I have no need to have the "last word" so please feel free to...

carry on...

blessings

Funny....I didn't see any "advice" in your post. Just a lot of assumptions.

 

[TOTO]

And, the final answer is............................

Wire Services have no Standards and Practices, no Quality Control, and no form of governance over the shops that fail to meet their customer's expectations.

The last WS who was able to implement strict guidelines as to a potential member's qualifications, and before they were able to join, was FTDA, the member owned and operated co-op. After which, those guidelines continued to be enforced to ensure the BRAND'S impeccable image by the Membership committee. First offensive was a fine. Second offensive was a bigger fine and probation. Third offense, and that shop BEE GONE!

YES, those days are long gone now (1994) and (2001).

The Association's epitaph could be written in one word, GREED!

When the association's own member/owners sold off the sales created by their own association with their own member dollars to the HIGHEST OWS REBATE BIDDER, that's when those members failed to see their fellow FLORISTS for THE FLEAS.

We had one of our own Board members and DC's scamming his own association. He would call another FTDA florist, tell them that he had one order for $100, but he was going to send that florist 4 orders over the Mercury at $25.00 each, but they should just send 1 funeral basket at the total price of $100 just so he could collect 4 rebates.

How many times at our old conventions would a multi WS member get up at the mike and ask the stupid question of: "WHERE'S MERLIN?"

D-A-M-N if he didn't already know the answer to his own question.

Had he, and many others like him, not sold the rest of us ONLY members out for the sake of the OWS rebates, Merlin would've continued to be our spokesperson, and most likely, the members would have never had to sell, due to the fiscal irresponsibility of the black hats who sat on the board.

Well, so much for History, ey?

Suffice it to say that, what we once had, is a microcosm of our own Government, and the inept way our elected officials have run it.

Why is it that, the very same elected officials who managed to DESTROY our national economy, are the same people who are still in charge of fixing it?

Simply because, their constituents are TOO LAZY to do their homework, check out the facts, and vote them out of office.

Same problem applies in the WS game since their own members continue to enable them by filling highly discounted orders from their dot.cons and all the OG's they sleep with.

FIXATION? Ah, YEAH! Similar to being diagnosed with a terminal disease like pancreatic cancer. At that point in the person's life, NOTHING ELSE really matters anymore, other than finding a treatment which will give them the hope of a cure or a possible remission.

WS's are FORE-PROFIT companies with a mission statement of keeping it that way, despite the costs to their members.

That's the way it is and that's the right of the WS's.

On the flip side, the FLORISTS need to see the WS's for what they are, and make a business decision to put THEIR SHOP and THEIR PROFITABILITY first. In the long haul, there's just no way that any shop can sustain themselves when filling orders at net 54% to 50% on their dollars when all of the hidden costs have been factored in.

Might feel good, even look good, when you seem to be busy all of the time, but at the end of the month, and when you check your checking account, and wonder where all the WS Smoke and Mirror Wampum money went, that's when you have to ask yourself, "WHAT FOR?"

 

[bloomz]

Funny....I didn't see any "advice" in your post. Just a lot of assumptions.

I'm sorry you missed it - not assumptions at all - they are facts born of experience - you likely don't know I was THE Original anti-OG crusader. Nobody in this country was more vocal than me.

You have the right to Write and call and keep calling your City Hall about the phony locals.

LOL - you have the right to picket same city hall with signs.

You have the right to file a complaint with your state Attorney General.
One florist, nearly alone, just got legislation passed and signed in Oregon last week (of all places...) You have the right to File a Complaint with the FTC.

As someone living in Oregon - I'm just jumping up and down - NOT - it took 15 years for Tom Meola to burn out (actually he self destructed) and Best Floral moved right into his shoes.

I see the reality in this. I discovered many years ago how to not let them (fake locals) bother me, and they don't.

You have the right to dream.

You have the right to file a complaint with the dOGs wire service.

ROTFL

You have every right to be angry, but don't just stop there.

Yup you have the right to waste time, but don't stop there - you have the right to waste so much time squashing flies, playing whackamole, and taking your eyes off the ball - you can go out of business.

Why anyone would recommend doing all that is beyond me.

But WTFDIK?

carry on.....

 

[CHR]

Somebody got it done in Oregon last week. Might have happened sooner had she had help instead of cynicism.

Maybe she just had some passion and a belief that failing to fight would help her go out of business.

 

[Flore]

I'm sorry you missed it - not assumptions at all - they are facts born of experience - you likely don't know I was THE Original anti-OG crusader. Nobody in this country was more vocal than me.
..

As much as I'd like to ignore you, somehow I feel the need to respond.
What you don't seem to get is that, ironically, I am not an OG nor a WS basher. And , if you read my post, which I am guessing you did not, you will see never did I bash them. I simply stated I am unhappy with their deceptive ghost listings...but that's about my only gripe.

If you want to give useful opinions, instead of trying to intimidate those of us who want to offer suggestions of solutions for ways for people who WANT to get away from the WS, why don't you offer alternate suggestions? If my suggestions were so off base, instead of telling me about your years of wisdom, why not share a little??

Or, do I sense some collusion here???

carry on.......

 

[prestonway]

If my suggestions were so off base, instead of telling me about your years of wisdom, why not share a little??

Or, do I sense some collusion here???

carry on.......

Bloomz doesn't need to tell you about his years of wisdom.

It's there for all to see if you do your homework.

There's almost 7 years of posts in this forum (not to mention other forums from the past)...MANY, MANY, MANY of them from bloomz.

Please do a detailed search on bloomz' posts from day one, before making the comment...

...why not share a little!?

:corky

 

[Flore]

Bloomz doesn't need to tell you about his years of wisdom.

It's there for all to see if you do your homework.

There's almost 7 years of posts in this forum (not to mention other forums from the past)...MANY, MANY, MANY of them from bloomz.

Please do a detailed search on bloomz' posts from day one, before making the comment...

...why not share a little!?

:corky

Why do I need to go back 7 years to get an answer from a question asked today??? I was referring to sharing on the present thread.

 

[lori042499]

Why do I need to go back 7 years to get an answer from a question asked today??? I was referring to sharing on the present thread.

He is sharing, he's sharing his opinion that we waste vast amounts of time fighting a fight we will not win as an industry. For better than 10 years this fight has been going on and despite it the OG's get bigger and WS get richer while florists go away, this means we are slowly losing the battle...it is not working and we are all at risk of fading away if we do not help ourselves, the idea of a unified front is a good idea, but the reality of it is the unicorns and monkies might happen first...thus the reason I have said it is a everyman for himself kind of deal...we must first help ourselves before we lose it all, coming here and learni ng is wonderful and talking about the possibilityies is great, but we all must do what is right for our own existance NOW, we cannot sit by and wait until someone comes up with a killer idea to unify us, because it is just as far off, maybe even farther, as it was 10 years ago and not getting any closer....

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and everyone must do what is right for their own business...some are more vocal that others but it doesn't make them right or wrong...what may be right for Bloomz biz might not be right for mine or yours, but I feel good about hearing his, Mikey, CHR, Toto and elses experiences, it helps me use their triumphs and pitfalls to make educated decisions about this crazy business. We all need mentors and I will say that you will not find this many good ones in one spot ever...Please do not try to silence the opinions of these people because it is needed and even if this stuff seems to get old, you have the choice to read or not read what you want to and even if you take nothing from it many do....bickering or not it works..

 

[bloomz]

Thank you Lori - I really didn't think it was that hard to understand - I didn't write it in Greek or anything.

I guess I'm a poor communicator.

But like Preson said - there is over 8,000 of my previous posts here - it's not like I/we haven't discussed the same topic here a time or two.

In a different spirit - let me post my previous welcomes to new folks here:

Welcome to the board!

You'll find a wealth of information here, but here are a couple get aquainted tips.

There is also a helpful Search link at the top of every page
Search Query section
Search for Key Words;__________________________
You can us operators here such as and or +, or you can enclose the phrase in double quotations marks "search terms" to find the entire phrase.
Below that is the Advanced Search Section

Search Options section - advanced search
Select which "Forum" to search in at a time, or at all.

For example, "wire service" I would only search in the "Wire Service" section.
Many people that are new here seem to have a common theme, frustration with the wire services. Believe me, this has been discussed hundreds of times, and it's doubtful that anything new will come from further discussion of the exact same topics that has't been already beat to death, repeatedly. Do a search, you will find discussions from before - add to an older post if you feel the need rather than starting a new one.

That's the basic way, you can limit further by using some of the other "Drop-Down" menu's like if you know the thread you are looking for is only a week or so old, etc....

Now that you have a list of threads you've searched for, do not just click on the thread you want to read. Instead RIGHT click on the thread and select "Open in New Window" This will pop up a new window with that thread in it, leaving your searched list intact for you to go back to.

The purpose of the "Search" is to offer a member the opportunity to research his/her question better. There is so much information from past threads that you may never see because that member is no longer here, or doesn't see your new post, or just won't respond to the same old question. So use it to your advantage and enjoy the board! View this funny and informative film about posting and searching…
http://uploads.ungrounded.net/188000/188612_Posting.swf

Take a few minutes to familiarize yourself with the forum. At the top of every board there are threads that are tagged as "Sticky" These threads are "Sticky" because they contain very important/valuable information about the forum and everyone should read them.

Following these simple tips will help keep the board pertinent, and eliminate the large numbers of S-O-S posts that we get here on a daily basis, thereby making this board the valuable useful tool it can be.

But we don't want the valuable, golden money making info threads to be lost in the sea of chaff.....

and please don't just be a lurker but an active contributor!

carry on.....

 

[sfox]

I guess I'm a poor communicator.

.

Wow!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[bloomz]

Wow!!!!!!!!!!!!

Don't you look at me like I'm the only one Foxxy.....we'd be two peas in a pod there and I'm sure you don't want to get that close to a liberal.

:rofl:

 

[BOSS]

Come on guy's...come on...you can do it... two more posts and this thread will hit 100....

Oh, sorry...did not mean to BUTT in....:rofl:

 

[lori042499]

Boss, You are having way too many chuckles today!!!!