"Free to Screw the Customer"

[sfox]

The fact is that if the average retail florist spent less time worrying about all the forces supposedly arrayed against them and more time tending to their own business, customer service, and design skills this industry would be much stronger.

Retail (all retail) has changed drastically in the last 1-2 decades with the introduction of changes such as a proliferation of credit cards, the internet, increased non domestic production of goods (in our case South American flowers farms), and a more knowledgeable consumer. None of these were created by FTD, OG's, mass marketers, or any of the other "evil entities" that are often targeted on this board. These groups in most cases simply saw an opportunity and took advantage of it to profit. Isn't that concept still considered by some to be the definition of a good business person?

Retailers can either adapt to these changes and take advantage of them when possible or perish. Possibly what we are now seeing in our industry is a "culling" of those who have their head stuck in the sand or individuals who despite their lack of business skill managed to survive through better times. Now that times are not so good, they simply do not have the ability to adapt. As much as we all hate to admit it at times, our industry would in fact be better served if these individuals did leave the flower business.

I find it comical every time I hear about the "good old days" of FTD. As I recall there was a lot of crying and moaning in those days about the wire services. In fact I still recall when AFS first introduced the "rebate" and "loyal" FTD members were either outright jumping ship like drowning rats or making sure all their outgoings went to AFS for the extra $3.00. FTD was finally forced to match the rebate to stop the defection of it's members ( I believe Teleflora caved in prior to that). If memory serves me right back in those days the average order was about $40.00 which meant FTD's 7% equated to about $2.80 leaving them short about $0.20 every time they paid a rebate. I suspect that this may have been the reasoning behind the start of all the additional nickels and dimes they now charge members.

By the way, where is AFS today?

On a last note to the individual who feels FTD is attempting to violate us , I would suggest that in the future you try to keep your preferences to yourself. This is after all a place to discuss common business interests and practices.

You're good Doug. Take my post and put your spin on it. My post was an answer to a very direct point bloomz made, nothing more.

But since you opened the door.

You remark..."The fact is that if the average retail florist spent less time worrying about all the forces supposedly arrayed against them and more time tending to their own business, customer service, and design skills this industry would be much stronger." I think you miss the mark here. You can't be a successful business person with out paying attention to and understanding the forces in the market you are facing. Since this website is supposed to be for the free exchange of ideas within the floral industry, it is easy to see why discussion of those forces are so common.

Second, never in my posts do I go back to as you say...the good old days of FTD. That's the past. Everything I post about is the present. If you choose to ignore what's happening in the present so be it.


Third, you comment...." On a last note to the individual who feels FTD is attempting to violate us , I would suggest that in the future you try to keep your preferences to yourself." Doug, it seems you have no problem expressing your personal preferences. And this board is supposed to be a place to express your personal preferences. Lastly, it could be rightfully inferred that you are in deep with FTD and they are lining your pockets nicely by offering you all those sweet perks they ply on those who feel they can use FTD.

Hate to say this but if you want to be in business in the future you better be aware of what is happening the in business world around you. And let me leave you with this thought. The wire services are a very small part of my business. I have no axe to grind or beer to cry into because of what the wire services have transformed into. My only motive is to inform others that the wire service business model is broken and that FTD is the worst business partner to be associated with.

That is my personal business opinion based on 30 years in this industry and many others in retailing.

 

[PhillyPhlorist]

or a florist without internet?

I'd guess there are still a few of them, tho not for too much longer.

You would be surprised - I'd bet there are MORE out there than you realize. There are 3 members in our delivery pool who don't have e-mail accounts for their shop!

I posted a response...

- H.

 

[Flore]

This may be oversimplifying the situation, but here's a solution I can see:

-Real florists drop wire services such as FTD, 1800, TF, etc. Basically, any wire service that is competing with florists, or allowing OGs to exist.
-Real florists that feel they need a wire service can join a service that does not compete or allow OGs such as IFA or flowershopnetwork. If they need a selection guide to show customers, they can buy ones that are available from John Henry. If all these florists migrated to these services, this should solve the problem of not enough members and sending issues.
They can also use a florist-based POS system such as Floristware, FAS, etc., for their software needs. They can also get their website through flowershopnetwork, or, even better, can use the money they were spending on the wire services to have a custom website built.
-Big wire services can then exist as dot com companies that fill drop-ship orders (flowers in a box, not pre-arranged hand-delivered orders) for the consumers that are looking for that type of product. They would not be in competition with real florists, because let's face it, those consumers would not be buying from a real florist anyway. I think in these days of technology, it is naive for a real florist to think they can be everything to everybody.
-I think OGs would either be out of busines in this scenario, or would find a way to reinvent themselves that would probably put them in competition with the wire services rather than the real florists.

As I said, I'm probably oversimplifying the situation. Just throwing out some ideas.

 

[lori042499]

Unfortunately, this is an everyman for himself type of business, just one of our downfalls as an industry...There are so many "florists" out there because we cannot even work together within shops, we all want to be incharge and there are only so many management postions out there, we are forced to go out and try to make it on our own to gain the next level in our dead end careers....Lets face it once you are lead designer or manager of a shop where do you go from there? If you cannot get one of these positions, you really are at a dead end bouncing from shop to shop waiting for the manager to retire....so many of us venture out to be our own bosses with or without good business skills and very short on money because lets face this one also, we are not paid real well across the board...many of us work without benefits so opening a shop and not having enough to bother with insurance is still no biggie because we didn't have it to begin with, we have nothing to lose by opening a shop so we so...then we make all the bad mistakes and hopefully learn from them cause that is how most of us even learned this business, many of us are Jerry Riggers from way back, only some of us have actual schooling and even that could be minimal....especially in business...

It is no wonder the WS outsmart and outmarket us every time...Bloomz is right, why shouldn't he take advantage of all the shops so willing to fill, if I knew how to market to people outside my area to make me their florist of choice in this market I would be the next 800-flowers, it is the only way I will have the floral empire my husband dreams about...Yall better watch out if I win the lottery, my first pusrchase will be a marketing company and a killer marketing plan to rival the big 3....I will be an hOG, I will gather as many orders as I can and I will hire a guru to help me...because this is business and as I see it unless I want to be a small florist on the edge of making money forever that is what I need to do....we all need to do this...locally and non-local...why have a website and not catch every sale you can from it...you pay for it to reach out to people beyond your reach, it is foolish to send those people out the door packing to another florist who may knock their socks off, market to them and service their every need, then you lose them...and sho ever they choose to tell about the new company they love...

When it comes to business, most of us are good hearted slobs, if we cannot help the customer we are glad to send them to a competitor that may be able to, you really don't see this much in other areas of business...I have never been told at the butcher, that they don't have the meat I am looking for to try stop and shop....the hardware store definately is not sending me to home depot to get my widgets and the hair dresser is not saying she doesn't know how to give me this or that cut and go next door....but we make a big habit of it....

We can never fault ftd and tf and 800 for doing what they should be doing and that is profiting from their business...just because we love to give business away to other businesses, doesn't mean all businesses within our industry should...if we do not like their rules and we don't profit by them we have the freedom to choose to leave, we should be thinking more about our businesses and less about how other people run theirs, but we should also learn from businesses doing better than our own and try to imitate that and improve on it....we do ourselves no good @@@@@ing about why we are doing so bad or why we aren't doing better, we need identify the problems and make the necessary changes to better our businesses...if the grocery store down the street is taking our business, maybe we need to be open longer hours and provide the customer with the cheap bokays that they do, if we don't want to then why complain that the grocery store took our business, I ave figured out that I can compete with the grocery store prices if I am willing to make less profit from those items, I really don't need to make a 3 time mark up on an item that is impulse sale or no labor 3 second paper wrap....

Fact is we as an industry are great at consistantly giving our business away to other people then complaining that it went away....we did this to ourselves and the only way it will get fixed is if we fix it one shop at a time, there is no group effort, there is no magic bullet, there is no association, every man for himself is the only way to succeed at this point, we have bee at this for 10plus years trying to make some sort of unified front, I think it is time we all worry about ourselves and our own stores...

 

[Doug Munro]

You're good Doug. Take my post and put your spin on it. My post was an answer to a very direct point bloomz made, nothing more.

But since you opened the door.

You remark..."The fact is that if the average retail florist spent less time worrying about all the forces supposedly arrayed against them and more time tending to their own business, customer service, and design skills this industry would be much stronger." I think you miss the mark here. You can't be a successful business person with out paying attention to and understanding the forces in the market you are facing. Since this website is supposed to be for the free exchange of ideas within the floral industry, it is easy to see why discussion of those forces are so common.

Second, never in my posts do I go back to as you say...the good old days of FTD. That's the past. Everything I post about is the present. If you choose to ignore what's happening in the present so be it.


Third, you comment...." On a last note to the individual who feels FTD is attempting to violate us , I would suggest that in the future you try to keep your preferences to yourself." Doug, it seems you have no problem expressing your personal preferences. And this board is supposed to be a place to express your personal preferences. Lastly, it could be rightfully inferred that you are in deep with FTD and they are lining your pockets nicely by offering you all those sweet perks they ply on those who feel they can use FTD.

Hate to say this but if you want to be in business in the future you better be aware of what is happening the in business world around you. And let me leave you with this thought. The wire services are a very small part of my business. I have no axe to grind or beer to cry into because of what the wire services have transformed into. My only motive is to inform others that the wire service business model is broken and that FTD is the worst business partner to be associated with.

That is my personal business opinion based on 30 years in this industry and many others in retailing.

Sfox,

It appears you are as much of a spin doctor as you accuse me of being.

First, I never suggested that the average florist not pay attention or understand the market forces they are facing. My comment was intended to suggest that most shops would be far better off directing the bulk of their energies inward to improve their own business skills. Ranting about or fixating on the evils of wire services does absolutely nothing to improve an individuals business. It is about as productive as ranting about the cost of energy to heat your home when you haven't taken the time to close your windows. Like you I too have been in the flower business for over 30 years, the first 15 managing a large wholesale. I could literally relates dozens of stories of "real florists" who simply did not have the aptitude, or business skills required to be successful. In fact during those days many of these individuals would often blame their local wholesale for destroying their business because the wholesale wanted to be paid within terms for product the individual had purchased. Trust me I am not making this up.

Secondly, as for the "good old days", I did not at any time suggest or infer that you were a proponent of them. My comment stated that I find it comical every time I see someone on this board refer to them.

Thirdly, Maybe I should have been more specific about the "individual" keeping their preferences to themselves. My comment was directed to their "sexual" preferences based on their original comment as to what FTD was doing to florists. I chose not to be that specific as to ensure I did not stoop to their level. After all this is a business forum.

Last, You must have incredible insight to be able to "rightfully infer"anything about my business practices or how I work with business partners, particularly since you have never met me. I might suggest that in your next career you start a psychic hot-line, I understand there is more money in that than in the flower business.

 

[Flore]

Unfortunately, this is an everyman for himself type of business, just one of our downfalls as an industry...There are so many "florists" out there because we cannot even work together within shops, we all want to be incharge and there are only so many management postions out there, we are forced to go out and try to make it on our own to gain the next level in our dead end careers....Lets face it once you are lead designer or manager of a shop where do you go from there? If you cannot get one of these positions, you really are at a dead end bouncing from shop to shop waiting for the manager to retire....so many of us venture out to be our own bosses with or without good business skills and very short on money because lets face this one also, we are not paid real well across the board...many of us work without benefits so opening a shop and not having enough to bother with insurance is still no biggie because we didn't have it to begin with, we have nothing to lose by opening a shop so we so...then we make all the bad mistakes and hopefully learn from them cause that is how most of us even learned this business, many of us are Jerry Riggers from way back, only some of us have actual schooling and even that could be minimal....especially in business...

It is no wonder the WS outsmart and outmarket us every time...Bloomz is right, why shouldn't he take advantage of all the shops so willing to fill, if I knew how to market to people outside my area to make me their florist of choice in this market I would be the next 800-flowers, it is the only way I will have the floral empire my husband dreams about...Yall better watch out if I win the lottery, my first pusrchase will be a marketing company and a killer marketing plan to rival the big 3....I will be an hOG, I will gather as many orders as I can and I will hire a guru to help me...because this is business and as I see it unless I want to be a small florist on the edge of making money forever that is what I need to do....we all need to do this...locally and non-local...why have a website and not catch every sale you can from it...you pay for it to reach out to people beyond your reach, it is foolish to send those people out the door packing to another florist who may knock their socks off, market to them and service their every need, then you lose them...and sho ever they choose to tell about the new company they love...

When it comes to business, most of us are good hearted slobs, if we cannot help the customer we are glad to send them to a competitor that may be able to, you really don't see this much in other areas of business...I have never been told at the butcher, that they don't have the meat I am looking for to try stop and shop....the hardware store definately is not sending me to home depot to get my widgets and the hair dresser is not saying she doesn't know how to give me this or that cut and go next door....but we make a big habit of it....

We can never fault ftd and tf and 800 for doing what they should be doing and that is profiting from their business...just because we love to give business away to other businesses, doesn't mean all businesses within our industry should...if we do not like their rules and we don't profit by them we have the freedom to choose to leave, we should be thinking more about our businesses and less about how other people run theirs, but we should also learn from businesses doing better than our own and try to imitate that and improve on it....we do ourselves no good @@@@@ing about why we are doing so bad or why we aren't doing better, we need identify the problems and make the necessary changes to better our businesses...if the grocery store down the street is taking our business, maybe we need to be open longer hours and provide the customer with the cheap bokays that they do, if we don't want to then why complain that the grocery store took our business, I ave figured out that I can compete with the grocery store prices if I am willing to make less profit from those items, I really don't need to make a 3 time mark up on an item that is impulse sale or no labor 3 second paper wrap....

Fact is we as an industry are great at consistantly giving our business away to other people then complaining that it went away....we did this to ourselves and the only way it will get fixed is if we fix it one shop at a time, there is no group effort, there is no magic bullet, there is no association, every man for himself is the only way to succeed at this point, we have bee at this for 10plus years trying to make some sort of unified front, I think it is time we all worry about ourselves and our own stores...

I hope this doesn't cause a stir, but I find your entry so sad. I respectfully disagree with your idea that every man for himself is the way to succeed. Nothing great was ever acheved by just one person.

I also respectfully disagree that small businesses are doomed to never make good money. Many small businesses fail because they have not "branded" themselves. If you try to be everything to everybody, you are going to find it difficult to compete and effectively market that message. You need to decide what your business's unique selling point is, and market that, and focus solely on that. You want a floral empire?? Go to the library, read on the internet, take a free meeting with your local SCORE chapter, and find out how to market to people outside your local market and build that empire...if that's what you want. You need to decide what you want your business to look like, and only spend your marketing $$ marketing that business model. A "floral empire" is a different business model than a local flower shop. Make sure you educate yourself about the differences. You think OGs are in the floral business, or are they in the marketing business?? A lot of people don't realize that McDonald's is actually in the real estate business, not the food service business. So, just because OGs are selling flowers, does not make them in the floral business.

Anyone who decides to open shop because they think that is their ONLY next step without educating themselves about business ownership and thinking they have nothing to lose is setting themselves up for failure. When you open a shop, you need to have the mental attitude that failure is not an option, or you will fail. I have surprised myself time and time again when times were tough how I was able to reach down really deep and figure out how to get out of trouble because for me, failure is NOT an option!

Not every small florist is only on the edge of making money forever. You can be a small florist and still make a lot of money. You will not do it if you do not know what makes you different from every other florist and market that and only that. You also will not do it if you do not have a business and marketing plan that is a road map to getting you to your goal. I rarely send people to other florists because people come to me for the different product/service I offer. I have sent customers away, but to me, they were the customers I considered "fired". Yes, sometimes you have to "fire" a customer, or not "hire" them at all, if they don't fit within your "brand".

Instead of competing with the grocery stores, why not offer what they cannot instead. When you choose to compete with a grocery store, you are choosing to take on a competitor with more marketing $$, more foot traffic, lower margins, etc. Is that where you want your business to be...i.e. is that the business model you want to emulate? And if so, is there enough $$ being spent in your market to sustain 2 or more businesses following this same model. Or maybe you'd rather market to the consumers that appreciate finer flowers, or more unique flowers. Those consumers don't exist in your market? Then maybe your market doesn't need a florist shop if all it's need are met from the grocery store. I highly doubt it, but my point is what most people don't do is a market analysis of the area they are opening a shop in, or every year when you are reevaluating your own marketing plan, you need to know what your market can bear and be sure you have greater market share of the segment of the market you are looking to capture.

 

[sfox]

Thanks for the response Doug, but

You posted..." Ranting about or fixating on the evils of wire services does absolutely nothing to improve an individuals business" I've been posting on these kinds of boards since the first days of the old SAF board. And that ranting as you like to call it, was what sparked a large number of florists to evaluate their business relationships then with the wire services and I am sure are giving new members to this board cause to question their business relationship with them today.

Again you posted...." Secondly, as for the "good old days", I did not at any time suggest or infer that you were a proponent of them. My comment stated that I find it comical every time I see someone on this board refer to them." Well, you chose my post as the place to make your commentary and it did seem that I was guilty of that longing for the "good old days". My business is here because I have to operate in today's business enviornment and try to keep an eye on all the happenings that could affect it going into the future..

Lastly, you posted..."Last, You must have incredible insight to be able to "rightfully infer"anything about my business practices or how I work with business partners, particularly since you have never met me. I might suggest that in your next career you start a psychic hot-line, I understand there is more money in that than in the flower business."
Since you don't know me Doug, maybe I already have a psychic hot-line business and that is why I inferred what I did. You took offense because I inferred something about you but you have no problem making a statement about me. Seems like a double standard there Doug.

 

[bloomz]

I've been posting on these kinds of boards since the first days of the old SAF board. And that ranting as you like to call it, was what sparked a large number of florists to evaluate their business relationships then with the wire services and I am sure are giving new members to this board cause to question their business relationship with them today.

and so many of them quit because of it - all 10-12 of them.

Crippled FTD.

I've been around here all that time too and heard the same tune now for well over 10 years.

And "they" have continued to grow, and a very few, like Shelby, "quit the wires" - only to rejoin.

It's just the SSDD and the supposed "problem" has gotten worse not better.

Questioning one's relationship with them is far different than doing something about it.

and...

blah blah blah

Happy Saturday y'all!



PS - Fox's "preferences" LOL

 

[LJVF]

...My comment was intended to suggest that most shops would be far better off directing the bulk of their energies inward to improve their own business skills. Ranting about or fixating on the evils of wire services does absolutely nothing to improve an individuals business. It is about as productive as ranting about the cost of energy to heat your home when you haven't taken the time to close your windows.

I like how you used the word "fixating". It is natural for many of us to fixate on and point the finger at a single blame when things start to go south. But this "fixating" can make a bad situation even worse. Putting blame on something for one's failures is a way to allow oneself to believe that it isn't their fault, but the fault of an outside source that is out of their control.

Many here at FC that are vocal against the wire services are very smart florists. These florists have figured out that wire services aren't profitable for them and have taken or are taking the necessary steps to drop them with a smooth transition. These shops are in a position to be profitable regardless if the wire services existed or not, because they have good business sense.

But there are many that just don't have a clue. Sure the wire services could be hurting them, but the problem runs much, much deeper. I believe it is a mistake for these particular shops to put all their energy on pointing fingers, when they really should look in the mirror and focus on their business structure as a whole. Many of them are doomed to failure regardless if wire services existed or not.

Educating and learning are healthy, "fixating" or feeling sorry for oneself is not.

 

[goldfish]

I've been posting on these kinds of boards since the first days of the old SAF board.

sfox, I have a tremendous respect to people like you, Cathy, BOSS. With that said, what you said above is precisely what the problem is in my opinion.

You've "been posting on these kinds of boards" for a long time. During these years, your idea about WS fundamentally has not changed.

When you first started pointing out the ills of wire-services, I'm sure it was a progressive idea that had a great value. I don't doubt that your opinion affected many, many florists in a very positive way.

Unfortunately, any progressive idea has a life span. An idea must also evolve in order to stay relevant.

 

[CHR]

I like how you used the word "fixating". It is natural for many of us to fixate on and point the finger at a single blame when things start to go south.

Please don't misinterpret keen interest as 'fixation'. WS members or not, what national companies do affects us all in one way or another.

The FTD complain cited in the OP was made by a PR5-6 blogger. Talk about influence....

The trick for all of us is to learn successful strategies to adapt - and to implement them. Some move deeper into relationships with national companies while others work slowly to separate themselves.

But regardless, there are cross-overs. Whether it's WS dOGs using phony 'local' addresses in our town or national marketing programs that promote low, low prices with bait and switch ad pictures, both influence our customers and potential customers and move shoppers to make purchasing decisions contrary to our benefits - and ultimately to their own wallets.

National marketers have capture more than 20% of the dollars that used to flow directly to local flower shops. Supermarkets appear to have captured even more of consumers' dollars. And remember, the pie is not growing.

I believe it is a mistake for these particular shops to put all their energy on pointing fingers, when they really should look in the mirror and focus on their business structure as a whole.

It seems every time a negative issue comes up about a WS or dOG these days, members here are chided to mind their own businesses. I agree that unhealthy fixation takes an owner's eye off the ball, but working along in an information vaccuum can be just as - if not more - detrimental.

Educating and learning are healthy, "fixating" or feeling sorry for oneself is not.

Agreed. Off this board, I see many FC members doing interesting and aggressive 'consumer facing' programs via products, services, offers, website, blogs and the like.

They get it - some more than others - yet they darn well see *first hand* the effects we're discussing in this thread, which is why they/we throw in our .02's.

 

[LJVF]

National marketers have capture more than 20% of the dollars that used to flow directly to local flower shops. Supermarkets appear to have captured even more of consumers' dollars. And remember, the pie is not growing.

That tells us something doesn't it? They must be doing something right and we must be doing something wrong.

It seems every time a negative issue comes up about a WS or dOG these days, members here are chided to mind their own businesses.

And vice versa.

I agree that unhealthy fixation takes an owner's eye off the ball, but working along in an information vaccuum can be just as - if not more - detrimental.

Agree to a point.

Agreed. Off this board, I see many FC members doing interesting and aggressive 'consumer facing' programs via products, services, offers, website, blogs and the like.

These are the things that I think a lot of florists are ignoring because they want a simple answer to their failures rather than being innovative, evolving and adapting to the times. Putting blame on the wire services is an easy way out. Yes I agree we all need to be aware of what the wire services are doing, but we must not ignore everything else. I see websites that look like they're old as dirt and haven't been updated in years, I see florists wasting money on old marketing/advertising techniques, I see shops who can't even create a basic design properly, I see shops who have never heard of the term "managerial accounting", the list goes on and on. There is so much for the failing shop to work on in addition to focusing on the "evil" wire services. It is these fundamentals of business that will help them to success.

There is nothing wrong with ranting once in a while, but we must not let it consume us when there is so much more to focus on.

 

[bloomz]

I like how you used the word "fixating". It is natural for many of us to fixate on and point the finger at a single blame when things start to go south. But this "fixating" can make a bad situation even worse. Putting blame on something for one's failures is a way to allow oneself to believe that it isn't their fault, but the fault of an outside source that is out of their control.

Many here at FC that are vocal against the wire services are very smart florists. These florists have figured out that wire services aren't profitable for them and have taken or are taking the necessary steps to drop them with a smooth transition. These shops are in a position to be profitable regardless if the wire services existed or not, because they have good business sense.

But there are many that just don't have a clue. Sure the wire services could be hurting them, but the problem runs much, much deeper. I believe it is a mistake for these particular shops to put all their energy on pointing fingers, when they really should look in the mirror and focus on their business structure as a whole. Many of them are doomed to failure regardless if wire services existed or not.

Educating and learning are healthy, "fixating" or feeling sorry for oneself is not.

Good synopsis of the problem - the fixation becomes worse than the problem one is fixating on.

They are not worth all this energy. Nothing we say or do changes them one teeny weenie bit.

I bet they laugh when they see all the attention and energy that gets devoted to trying to stop change from happening.

Wasting time on unproductive things?

I don't think that's a sign of an astute business person.

ironic I would be posting that, I know.....:dunce :dunno:

But here's a great write up on what this is all worth - repost

http://www.safnow.org/images/stories/Publications/FMmag/2007/May07/view_may07.pdf

at the time it was rather disagreed with, but it stands as a great piece on this.

http://www.flowerchat.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10254

 

[CHR]

That tells us something doesn't it? They must be doing something right and we must be doing something wrong.

Part of that question is whether our wrongs (wrong business methods, wrong assumptions, eyes on the wrong balls ) have helped them grow at our own expense.

Once again, I'll remind that FTD makes more profit from florist services than it does consumer floral sales, but the scales have generally continued to tip further toward the retail side.

I see websites that look like they're old as dirt and haven't been updated in years, I see florists wasting money on old marketing/advertising techniques, I see shops who can't even create a basic design properly, I see shops who have never heard of the term "managerial accounting", the list goes on and on.

I hope that means they're still allowed to express opinions, though. Nobody here is perfect. Nobody.

Personally going after less-than-optimal aspects of members' businesses sadly seems to be the trend to get folks to shut up in a heated discussion of late. Diminsh, diminish, diminish if winning on actual discussion points isn't possible.

There is nothing wrong with ranting once in a while, but we must not let it consume us when there is so much more to focus on.

The majority of recent threads are not about WSs. Look around and you'll see far, far more about shop operations, marketing, design, web development & tech so I really cannot think of anyone who fits the label 'consumed'.

 

[bloomz]

I really cannot think og anyone who fits the label 'consumed'.

I think that was a freudian slip. oke: :>

 

[sfox]

and so many of them quit because of it - all 10-12 of them.

Crippled FTD.

I've been around here all that time too and heard the same tune now for well over 10 years.

And "they" have continued to grow, and a very few, like Shelby, "quit the wires" - only to rejoin.

Got to love you bloomzie. You never let facts get in the way when you post. Do some research and you can see that during the days of the old SAF board, FTD membership in the U.S. was over 20,000.

Today the U.S. FTD membership is around 12,000.

Wow, nothings changed, No one left.

Bloomzie, love the way you research your posts.

 

[bloomz]

Gotta love ole Fox's selective reading.....he sees only what he wants to see and what was actually written doesn't have any bearing on it.

And if he can't do that - he'll just put words into your post, then accuse you of saying something completely different than you said.

He never lets (facts on) what you actually said get in the way of what he *thinks he* wants you to have said.

That's what he calls "research" I guess....different definition than I know of....

glad to not be stuck there.....




but bloomz luvs him too, cuz even a bad example is still a good example!

Kumbaya baby...:>

 

[sfox]

Gotta love ole Fox's selective reading.....he sees only what he wants to see and what was actually written doesn't have any bearing on it.

And if he can't do that - he'll just put words into your post, then accuse you of saying something completely different than you said.

He never lets (facts on) what you actually said get in the way of what he *thinks he* wants you to have said.

That's what he calls "research" I guess....different definition than I know of....

glad to not be stuck there.....




but bloomz luvs him too, cuz even a bad example is still a good example!

Kumbaya baby...:>

Wow, you went to the Obama speech writing school. Lots of talk, say nothing.

Love having a celebrity on the board.

 

[bloomz]

You're just not used someone who can speak in complete sentences Fox...or someone who can stay on topic.

carry on.....

 

[LJVF]

...I hope that means they're still allowed to express opinions, though. Nobody here is perfect. Nobody.

Agree with you, that is what makes an open forum like FC so great, there is so much to be learned through expressions of opinions.

The majority of recent threads are not about WSs. Look around and you'll see far, far more about shop operations, marketing, design, web development & tech so I really cannot think of anyone who fits the label 'consumed'.

Agree with you again. There are a ton of informative threads here at FC. But it seems that a lot (not all) of these threads of information go unnoticed or have a lack of interest or passion.

I agree with what goldie said earlier in this thread:

sfox, I have a tremendous respect to people like you, Cathy, BOSS. With that said, what you said above is precisely what the problem is in my opinion.

You've "been posting on these kinds of boards" for a long time. During these years, your idea about WS fundamentally has not changed.

When you first started pointing out the ills of wire-services, I'm sure it was a progressive idea that had a great value. I don't doubt that your opinion affected many, many florists in a very positive way.

Unfortunately, any progressive idea has a life span. An idea must also evolve in order to stay relevant.

How many years has the war against the wire services been going on while florists continue to drop like flies? Seems the florist needs to develop a different strategy or we're all on the road to extinction.