BOSS
FlowerChat Administrator
Ooops... Have to change the Copyright date 'eh....
Oh and Q...it's not a site you probably want to be listed on
Just one example of what is wrong with our industry
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Oh and Q...it's not a site you probably want to be listed on
I felt the need to make the ASSumption of filler error because I know OG's, myself included, handle orders more efficiently, like Doug said, it's all most of them do.
as well as, I have considerable experience with incompetent fillers.
Underselling, tho a problem, isn't something OGs want to do, - they know better than we do what it takes to get an order filled, and if we undersold it - guess who makes up the difference if no one wants it.
and contrary to popular flowerchat belief, they also don't want disappointed/lost customers.
This is the same reason I don't feature those wonderful TF cookies with the orchids on my site - don't care to create unrealistic expectations cuz it will come down to ME losing an expensive to aquire customer. I don't know how TF can do it.
as well as, I have considerable experience with incompetent fillers.
Underselling, tho a problem, isn't something OGs want to do, - they know better than we do what it takes to get an order filled, and if we undersold it - guess who makes up the difference if no one wants it.
and contrary to popular flowerchat belief, they also don't want disappointed/lost customers.
This is the same reason I don't feature those wonderful TF cookies with the orchids on my site - don't care to create unrealistic expectations cuz it will come down to ME losing an expensive to aquire customer. I don't know how TF can do it.
Doug Munro
Well-Known Member
Bingo Daddy O
Bloomz, You are right on the money on this one.
Although I do not consider myself anymore of an OG than any florist who takes an order for delivery outside of their own city, I will admit that we do a slightly higher volume than most.
Having said that, the last thing we ever attempt to do is low ball the retail price. Doing so almost guarantees one of two things will occur
a) No shop will accept the order for fulfillment
b) The sender, the recipient, or both will be disapointed in what is delivered. Not enough money = not enough flowers
The reality is that we strive to ensure customer satisfaction and to retain customers once we have acquired them. Neither would be accomplished under either scenario A or B above. Let's all keep in mind the the majority of the cost in acquiring a customer is on the first order.
Your also right in the sense that we probably do handle orders more efficiently than the average shop (who probably sends 2-5 orders a week). We have spent considerable effort and resources to ensure that we do, so as to better serve the customer and avoid potential problems.
Last but not least, you are 100% correct that OG's do not want disappointed customers. As simple and self explanatory as this sounds I think that sometimes people get caught up in the rhetoric surrounding OG's and the flower industry and either forget or ignore this fact. Does anyone truly believe that a business like 1 800 Flowers or Proflowers is not doing everything within their power to create happy, satisfied long term customers.
Bloomz, You are right on the money on this one.
Although I do not consider myself anymore of an OG than any florist who takes an order for delivery outside of their own city, I will admit that we do a slightly higher volume than most.
Having said that, the last thing we ever attempt to do is low ball the retail price. Doing so almost guarantees one of two things will occur
a) No shop will accept the order for fulfillment
b) The sender, the recipient, or both will be disapointed in what is delivered. Not enough money = not enough flowers
The reality is that we strive to ensure customer satisfaction and to retain customers once we have acquired them. Neither would be accomplished under either scenario A or B above. Let's all keep in mind the the majority of the cost in acquiring a customer is on the first order.
Your also right in the sense that we probably do handle orders more efficiently than the average shop (who probably sends 2-5 orders a week). We have spent considerable effort and resources to ensure that we do, so as to better serve the customer and avoid potential problems.
Last but not least, you are 100% correct that OG's do not want disappointed customers. As simple and self explanatory as this sounds I think that sometimes people get caught up in the rhetoric surrounding OG's and the flower industry and either forget or ignore this fact. Does anyone truly believe that a business like 1 800 Flowers or Proflowers is not doing everything within their power to create happy, satisfied long term customers.
Eric S
Demoted Webmaster
And the only reason why they should care is because the flower industry is shrinking.
Bad economy and to many bad experiences purchasing flowers online done in the past. So many customers call and say It so hard to find someone they can trust. Deception has burn right through all of those future flower buyers. Chased them away and they will never send flowers as a gift again.
Sorry its a little too late for any of them to save this industry. They can facebook and twitter all they want. Its not going to help.
This post really struck me.
As much of this thread has been spent trying to lay blame, the real blame goes to the logos this gentleman now wants to avoid. Only they can enforce their TOS - and they've mostly abdicated the responsibility on both sides of the equation.
He's a real flower giver since that's what he does, and he's more resilient than most consumers, but at least he hasn't given up sending flowers all together.
Wanna bet Joan keeps him happily looking for real local florists in the future?
Joan, your story is priceless.
Doug Munro
Well-Known Member
Again, when the flowers industries problems are raised somehow or other the blame for all woes is laid at the feet of the OG's and wire services.
Maybe my memory is longer than most as I have been kicking around this industry for a bit over 30 years.
I can recall when there were no OG's (the Internet didn't exist and long distance was worth a Kings ransom) and wire services were the florists best friend. In addition rent was cheap, labor costs low, gas was less than a buck a gallon.
During those days florists generally retailed roses for say $65.00 - $85.00 a dozen. Then all of a sudden the industry changed, companies like ours (Grower Direct) and the supermarkets starting retailing roses for $9.99 a dozen. Why not, even at this price you could make a great return, usually a 60% - 65% gross.
As I recall the battle cry at that time was that these companies were destroying the industry and had no right to do so, they weren't even real florists. Things heated up to the point that many wholesalers were approached by individual florists or groups of florists who strongly suggested that it might be in the best interest of the wholesaler not to sell to these "discounters" (trust me on this one , I managed a wholesale chain at the time).
However the industry survived, mind you a few individual shops were lost along the way. Funny enough the price of roses never did "crash" at the retail florist level, at least not to any extent.
Now fast forward to today, the "destroyers of the flower industry" have changed. Today the perceived bad guys are the OG's and wires services.
Well folks I have some bad news for you, the OG's and WS's are no more villains today than the companies that brought the price of flowers down were 20 years ago. The reality is that in both cases these groups simply saw an opportunity and moved on it. 20 years ago it was South American flower imports, today it is technology (internet, cheap long distance). Sure in both cases there are some unscrupulous, maybe downright dishonest individuals operating, but lets face it the same can be said of any industry (including the traditional retail florist).
So rather than continue to waste time, energy, and money concocting plans to eliminate the OG's and wire services, why not devote those valuable resources to selling more flowers. In the end everyone would benefit.
Doug Munro
Well-Known Member
Previous Post
CHR,
I did in fact read it, but only after I had posted mine.
However I don't believe it has any impact on what I posted. I did go back and read Joan's original post and what struck me as odd (particularly since no one appeared to mention it) was that the gentleman she refers to is a supplier to Wal Mart and Sams Clubs. Two entities that if they got serious about flowers could in fact probably wipe out the vast majority of independent florists in a relatively short period.
Even setting that aside his is simply one opinion. The bottom line is that a company like FTD.com does not do 4 million orders a year by making customers mad, they live on repeat. The same can be said for 1 800 Flowers or Proflowers.
I have read a lot of posts on here and any time that the phrases order gatherer and flower order appear in an example it is almost always a negative one. I find it hard to believe that out of tens of millions of orders processed there is not one satisfied customer story. I believe it simply shows the bias that most retail flower shops have against the OG's and wire services.
My point is that we would all be better off trying to build the industry rather than spending all this energy trying to tear it down.
I can only imagine the plans that will be concocted the day that Wal Mart announces it will be opening full service flower shops in every location and customers can use these to have flowers delivered anywhere in North America.
CHR,
I did in fact read it, but only after I had posted mine.
However I don't believe it has any impact on what I posted. I did go back and read Joan's original post and what struck me as odd (particularly since no one appeared to mention it) was that the gentleman she refers to is a supplier to Wal Mart and Sams Clubs. Two entities that if they got serious about flowers could in fact probably wipe out the vast majority of independent florists in a relatively short period.
Even setting that aside his is simply one opinion. The bottom line is that a company like FTD.com does not do 4 million orders a year by making customers mad, they live on repeat. The same can be said for 1 800 Flowers or Proflowers.
I have read a lot of posts on here and any time that the phrases order gatherer and flower order appear in an example it is almost always a negative one. I find it hard to believe that out of tens of millions of orders processed there is not one satisfied customer story. I believe it simply shows the bias that most retail flower shops have against the OG's and wire services.
My point is that we would all be better off trying to build the industry rather than spending all this energy trying to tear it down.
I can only imagine the plans that will be concocted the day that Wal Mart announces it will be opening full service flower shops in every location and customers can use these to have flowers delivered anywhere in North America.
Speaking for the greater Columbia SC area - I have a very dear friend who works at Wal-mart and has done so for many years. The stores here DID HAVE A FULL SERVICE FLORAL DEPARTMENT.....and I am told by my friend that the reason they CLOSED all the departments and remodeled and now just offer wrapped bouquets......is that operating the full service used too many resources.
BOSS
FlowerChat Administrator
Walmart has seen the future, and for them it's not in flowers... had full service here, been gone a couple years now...in fact the local Walmart is my second best customer... they do send a LOT of flowers....
Regarding order gatherers: Can anyone show me where they add value to the transaction by getting between the consumer and florist?
Far as I can tell, they simply remove the profit from the deal.
(BTW, I feel the argument that OG's "raise consumer awareness of flowers" is a bogus one)
Regarding order gatherers: Can anyone show me where they add value to the transaction by getting between the consumer and florist?
Far as I can tell, they simply remove the profit from the deal.
(BTW, I feel the argument that OG's "raise consumer awareness of flowers" is a bogus one)
Sure - Presumption of Quality - I add value to it by accessing my preferred florist list.
People gladly pay for that.
On their own picking one out of google or yellowpages.com it's a crap shoot.
Otherwise why would these people I've never seen buy from me repeatedly?
Tell me that?
(by the way - my Don't Send list is at least as large as my Preferred List - for a reason - and I have a few customers who have ordered thru me over 100 times)
People gladly pay for that.
On their own picking one out of google or yellowpages.com it's a crap shoot.
Otherwise why would these people I've never seen buy from me repeatedly?
Tell me that?
(by the way - my Don't Send list is at least as large as my Preferred List - for a reason - and I have a few customers who have ordered thru me over 100 times)
BOSS
FlowerChat Administrator
Key word...presumption.... they presume, as do you Sir! Presumption, does not equal added value.
BTW, many of us have "Preferred Golden Lists"
BOSS
FlowerChat Administrator
lori042499
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- May 3, 2006
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My question on this situation is this.....
Are we, as an industry, just repeating history???
Back at the beginning of the 90's we, as an industry, demanded more orders from our ws companies...they gave them to us and the internet breeded the OG as we know it...we got sucked in rather happily in the beginning until our own customers started getting wooed away...and we started hearing horror stories...it also became easier to start up a business with the promise of all these "free" orders from the heavens...so the uprise of inexperienced and sometimes very bad fillers...
Now we hate this monster we all helped in creating...are we just repeating history and further marring our livlihood by spiting these ogs and not handling their orders...maybe we should put our organized efforts into dictating to these companies what we need to fill these OG"s orders...and stick by it...The prices should be governed by the filling shops in major markets, not an average of all shops across america...because these orders go to the major markets, I believe if we organized and came up with a real plan on what we need realistically to fill these orders we could restore some balance..rather than try as single shops to just reject all, or hold until they can't be filled, or send umteen messages back and forth until the order is late, these tactics are no better than the promise of free delivery and I am located in the local area tactics, we are just as much the problem as they are, IMOH...not saying that you shouldn't reject if the order doesn't meet your standards, but many florists hold the orders and sabotage them further rather than make a decision and move on, just because of who sent it...that is not right...
I would bet that if enough filler florists got together and organized a well thought out plan to really partner with these people we could together make a solution that fits all...but it would take a large organized group to make this difference, TF, FTD and Bloomnet would not be able to ignore it...well maybe they could, but it may be worth a try...the most major problem with how things are is the fact that not much money can be made with the prices set as they are, and the fact that the arrangements are all over the map as far as content....realistically the WS should be looking at what we need to stay in business for delivery and flowers to ensure their success long term...and flower shops need to refine what they do best...and have their websites reflect that...so the OGS can best fit the product to a filling shop...if you aren't willing to make it don't feature it on your site, period the end...All memebers should be required to deal with their websites at least once a month and the WS should have o deal with each shop when they plan to add content...They should be surveying shops from all over and finding out what they need to make arrangments and should be going on higher end so that all shops can make money, not just the midcentral states or places where cost of living is lower, because frankly they are not the ones making the majority of orders, the ones in the major markets are....also the shop like oberer's and plaza and smith's are rarer in terms of buying power and production power, so they shouldn't go by what they need to make money on...it should be the average shop making 200,000-300,000 a year...that way everyone is insured to make money....
Are we, as an industry, just repeating history???
Back at the beginning of the 90's we, as an industry, demanded more orders from our ws companies...they gave them to us and the internet breeded the OG as we know it...we got sucked in rather happily in the beginning until our own customers started getting wooed away...and we started hearing horror stories...it also became easier to start up a business with the promise of all these "free" orders from the heavens...so the uprise of inexperienced and sometimes very bad fillers...
Now we hate this monster we all helped in creating...are we just repeating history and further marring our livlihood by spiting these ogs and not handling their orders...maybe we should put our organized efforts into dictating to these companies what we need to fill these OG"s orders...and stick by it...The prices should be governed by the filling shops in major markets, not an average of all shops across america...because these orders go to the major markets, I believe if we organized and came up with a real plan on what we need realistically to fill these orders we could restore some balance..rather than try as single shops to just reject all, or hold until they can't be filled, or send umteen messages back and forth until the order is late, these tactics are no better than the promise of free delivery and I am located in the local area tactics, we are just as much the problem as they are, IMOH...not saying that you shouldn't reject if the order doesn't meet your standards, but many florists hold the orders and sabotage them further rather than make a decision and move on, just because of who sent it...that is not right...
I would bet that if enough filler florists got together and organized a well thought out plan to really partner with these people we could together make a solution that fits all...but it would take a large organized group to make this difference, TF, FTD and Bloomnet would not be able to ignore it...well maybe they could, but it may be worth a try...the most major problem with how things are is the fact that not much money can be made with the prices set as they are, and the fact that the arrangements are all over the map as far as content....realistically the WS should be looking at what we need to stay in business for delivery and flowers to ensure their success long term...and flower shops need to refine what they do best...and have their websites reflect that...so the OGS can best fit the product to a filling shop...if you aren't willing to make it don't feature it on your site, period the end...All memebers should be required to deal with their websites at least once a month and the WS should have o deal with each shop when they plan to add content...They should be surveying shops from all over and finding out what they need to make arrangments and should be going on higher end so that all shops can make money, not just the midcentral states or places where cost of living is lower, because frankly they are not the ones making the majority of orders, the ones in the major markets are....also the shop like oberer's and plaza and smith's are rarer in terms of buying power and production power, so they shouldn't go by what they need to make money on...it should be the average shop making 200,000-300,000 a year...that way everyone is insured to make money....
lori042499
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This is exactly how I "sell" my Wire out biz....
I let them know that they pay me the service charge to ensure that their order gets filled by a quality shop...if by chance that shop effs up, they are buying my gaurantee...very simple...if they don't want to pay that fee, they are welcome to go to www and have a looksee at who they want to use, I also warn them about the dangers and pitfalls of makeing sure they are buying from a reputable company that they will be able to access if they hhave a problem, etc...I lose some because they would rather not pay, but some just ant to place the order with a real person who will be there if they should need them if their order doesn't go right, t is added value...the value of a real living breathing person that they can call and get during all business hours and sometimes beyond to handle their order...we should all be "selling" this service this way...and yes sometimes I lose my money because My list of preffered is small, but it is growing and someday I will have a nice golden list...I give back all money if an order goes wrong regardless of how the shop on the other end handles it, but if they don't handle it well they get black marked...
I know I’m getting in on the end of this, and I’m too busy to read more than 2 pages of posts, so I apologize if I repeat what someone else has said.
I want to ask those of you with wire services a question:
If you wanted to send flowers to your mother out of state, would you pay the wire service fees, look up a florist in a directory and type the order on the Merc, hit send, and wait anxiously hoping you get what you ordered for when you ordered it?
NO!
So why do you want your customers to use a service you wouldn’t use yourself?
I want to ask those of you with wire services a question:
If you wanted to send flowers to your mother out of state, would you pay the wire service fees, look up a florist in a directory and type the order on the Merc, hit send, and wait anxiously hoping you get what you ordered for when you ordered it?
NO!
So why do you want your customers to use a service you wouldn’t use yourself?
Ack! Some of us need reading glasses.
I'm with you. I think the reason for such debate of the fall of the ws empire is due to the fact that people trust themselves to order direct.
Personally since I have been on FlowerChat I have learned to list my company in the google listings much to my gain, and dismay. I for one spend at least 10 minutes a day dealing with desperate og's and advising callers how to buy direct.
Doug Munro
Well-Known Member
Boss,
I believe that Walmart has simply made a decision that reflects their interest at the present time. Don't assume that this will always be the case.
Walmart is moving heavily into groceries now, with a passion. Both perishable and non perishable. The perishable side means refrigeration and an overhaul of their whole outlook on things. Things llike refrigerated warehousing and transportation will be in place, and knowing Walmart it will be done right. Think about it once they are known as a full service grocery store, will flowers be far behind. Once that decision is made there will be a line up a mile long of flower importers and suppliers scrambling for a piece of the pie. Do not even have to mention the wire services as they will be their at the drop of a hat.
I read an article a few years ago about Walmart thinking when it comes to expanding into new retail market sectors. The article focused primarily on the auto sector and how Walmart was seriously looking at selling cars. Needless to say the auto dealers were dead set against it and fighting tooth and nail. However the real interesting part was that according to this article Walmart would not go into the auto business unless they felt they could control 40% of the market! Apparently this was their yardstick for venturing into a new retail sector, I would imagine this same yardstick was applied prior to their expansion into groceries and would be applied to flowers as well.
BTW As far as order gatherers simply removing profit from the deal , I can only imagine that Proflowers says the same about florists. My point being that it all depends on what side of the fence you are on as to how you view the situation.
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