Just one example of what is wrong with our industry

[Doug Munro]

Obviously unacceptable to darn near everyone....


I think I'm the only anti-og one here

But that said Doug, like I pointed out with regard to our friend Bloomzie, he has his physical address on every page of his site, and IMO that makes him legit and the consumer responsible.

My issue is with those like Da Weasel that claim to be located in my or any other city, directly delivering to said city, or those that list themselves as a local florist and have no storefront anywhere. To me there is a huge difference between dOG and OG.

Boss,

I congratulate you on artfully dodging all of the other comments I made regarding poor fulfillers.

As well my threads must be the only ones you read if you actually believe you are the the only anti-OG individual on here....lol

None the less I stand by my statements, and further to that I invite others who have continuing problems with fulfilling shops to join in.

In a previous thread I suggested that a tread should be started listing bad fulfillers, much in the same format that there are threads going listing alleged or perceived OG's.

Simple concept, if a sending shop has been burnt by a poor fulfiller, list the shops name.

Isn't it strange that concept did not garner more support?

 

[Doug Munro]

You hit the nail on the head

The fillers blame the senders, the senders blame the fillers, the bottom line is that the system that is in place now is failing. Senders and fillers are burning each other, but the one that is being burned the most, is the most important of all, OUR customer.

After years of debate and negative progress, we're moving backwards folks. It's ok to be disappointed in what's not fair, but let's not whine and cry about it. Life's not fair. I feel we should focus on what's best for our individual businesses. Serving the customer.

*If you get an order that is skimmed, ask for more $ and/or FOR/REJ.

*If you get an order you can't fill, ask if substitutions are ok and/or just FOR/REJ.

*If you're losing money being a wire service member, then quit.

*If you're dissatisfied with being a wire service member, then quit.


Don't let anger, greed or both cloud your business sense. The sender and the recipients (our customers) are the one's that get caught in the crossfire.

Just my opinion...

The fact is that the consumer does not care about the issues that are going on behind the scene in our industry, they just want the flowers that they order delivered. Pretty simple concept.

Unfortunately while we are all busy (myself included) pointing fingers the consumer is seeking and finding alternatives to flowers.

The reality is the the Customer is King, nothing else is as important as that.

We live in a changing world, so no point in whining about the old days. Either our industry places the customers needs first AT ALL LEVELS or we will go the way of the local butcher, local hardware store, local baker, etc.

 

[lori042499]

Boss,

I congratulate you on artfully dodging all of the other comments I made regarding poor fulfillers.

As well my threads must be the only ones you read if you actually believe you are the the only anti-OG individual on here....lol

None the less I stand by my statements, and further to that I invite others who have continuing problems with fulfilling shops to join in.

In a previous thread I suggested that a tread should be started listing bad fulfillers, much in the same format that there are threads going listing alleged or perceived OG's.

Simple concept, if a sending shop has been burnt by a poor fulfiller, list the shops name.

Isn't it strange that concept did not garner more support?

I am all for a poor fulfillers page...I am always interested in knowing who the awful florists are to deal with but most hold that info near and dear because it gives them an edge to sell their wireouts...not to mention a whole lot of people will make excuses because they must have been wronged being a real florist it couldn't have been them that screwed up...but they do and most don't even know it, they can't even see that the arrangement ordered and the crap that was sent out look nothing similar or that the value wasn't even close...

 

[BOSS]

In a previous thread I suggested that a tread should be started listing bad fulfillers, much in the same format that there are threads going listing alleged or perceived OG's.

Simple concept, if a sending shop has been burnt by a poor fulfiller, list the shops name.

Isn't it strange that concept did not garner more support?

In that same thread, I mentioned that you Sir, have the ability to create such a thread, and left it up to you to do so... I'm sure once created there would be quite a few that would contribute. So is it still my fault such a thread has not been created? If so let me know and I'll get right on it.

Thing is, I agree with you regarding substitutions, so I was not dodging them artfully or otherwise. It's hard to have an argument when both guys want to take the same side

My only point of contention, is to eliminate the middleman, making poor fulfillment an issue between the consumer and retailer...

 

[bloomz]

Is that gonna fix it Boss?

I don't think so, as I think the consumer has a better chance with a professional OG.

IF they crap shoot on the web, where their chances of quality are lower and get burned - they still get burned, and we still lose a consumer.

I really think that's a big part of why they choose OG's - case in point TFTD - because of that presumption of big company = knowlege.

I'd start a thread, but there are so many DON'T SEND in my directory I wouldn't know where to start. I mean thousands (never counted) but I'm quite sure they outnumber the Preferreds.

 

[BOSS]

IF they crap shoot on the web, where their chances of quality are lower and get burned - they still get burned, and we still lose a consumer.

Road apples, bunk... that's a MYTH!

Just because you have a motorcycle accident, does that mean you never ride again?

I thought so!

 

[prestonway]

In that same thread, I mentioned that you Sir, have the ability to create such a thread, and left it up to you to do so... I'm sure once created there would be quite a few that would contribute. So is it still my fault such a thread has not been created?

Is it possible to create one of them thar "Sub-forums" for OGs?

Not sure I would want to share this information with members that are not part of "the group"!

lollollollol

 

[bloomz]

Road apples, bunk... that's a MYTH!

Just because you have a motorcycle accident, does that mean you never ride again?

I thought so!

bunk on yer bunk, ya wingnut.

are you saying getting burned doesn't drive consumers to other gifts?

Guess you didn't hear what Goldston said what Vera Wang told him why she will not put her name on florist delivered flowers.

tried to return that dang red dot but it still won't let me so the thumbs down will have to sufficelol

and yes, many people that have cycle accidents never ride again - they're just not as nutz as you and me I guess.

I know fully well motorcycles are quite dangerous and that's what makes them so thrilling.

I also know fully well that consumers that get burned often stop buying flowers.

and so do you.

myth Schmith. lol

 

[Knife's Wife]

Making a list of florist that perpetuate deceptive advertising and skimming is one thing because there is evidence to back up what one is saying.

Making a list of fillers that F" up is rediculous and slanderous unless there is 100 percent proof in what has been accused.

99% of florist complaints against another florist are based on at least 50% of presumptions, you know the complaints we read on hear weekly.

I would not be stupid enough to open myself up to being accused of slander.

Think before you enter into this.

Joan

 

[BOSS]

myth Schmith. lol

Hey that rhymes....:newbie

 

[Doug Munro]

In that same thread, I mentioned that you Sir, have the ability to create such a thread, and left it up to you to do so... I'm sure once created there would be quite a few that would contribute. So is it still my fault such a thread has not been created? If so let me know and I'll get right on it.

Thing is, I agree with you regarding substitutions, so I was not dodging them artfully or otherwise. It's hard to have an argument when both guys want to take the same side

My only point of contention, is to eliminate the middleman, making poor fulfillment an issue between the consumer and retailer...

Boss,

I will happily start a thread for Poor Fulfillers however I would like to see it get the same consideration the OG threads have.

That it maintains a top position in the Wire Service section. No point in starting a thread if it ends up on page 28.

Yes I know....if there are contributions posted it will stay on top, but considering how important a role this could play to everyone on this board I think it should be given the same consideration as the OG threads. Remember whats good for the goose is good for the gander

As well I will add some guidelines for those posting as this is not a witch hunt, but rather a tool to improve customer service and protect the reputation of good shops.

So my initial thoughts are that every time a shop name is listed there MUST be some details about a particular incident relating to poor fulfillment (approximate date, incident details, no personal attacks or slurs, etc). After all everyone is innocent until proven guilty, it will also allow the individual to know why their shop has been listed and if they feel the listing is not justified they can relate their side of the incident.

This should stop any attempts to unjustifiably "blacklist" a shop for whatever reason.

We certainly don't want that to ever occur.....

Whoa,,,,, wait a minute isn't that exactly the danger in how the OG's list operates?

Anyone can post anyone's business as an OG with no checks or balances?

None the less I would like the thread I start for Poor Fulfillers to take a fairer and more balanced approach, rather than incorporate a "mob" mentality.

After all we are working for the same goal, to strengthen our industry and provide better service to the consumer.

Please let me know how I set up my thread so it stays right below the OG Threads at the top of the Wire Service area

Thanks in advance

Doug Munro

 

[Doug Munro]

Is that gonna fix it Boss?

I don't think so, as I think the consumer has a better chance with a professional OG.

IF they crap shoot on the web, where their chances of quality are lower and get burned - they still get burned, and we still lose a consumer.

I really think that's a big part of why they choose OG's - case in point TFTD - because of that presumption of big company = knowlege.

I'd start a thread, but there are so many DON'T SEND in my directory I wouldn't know where to start. I mean thousands (never counted) but I'm quite sure they outnumber the Preferreds.

Bloomz, since your list of poor fulfillers is long I am counting on you to contribute to my thread once Boss tells me how to set it up the way I have requested

Thanks in advance

Doug

 

[Doug Munro]

Making a list of florist that perpetuate deceptive advertising and skimming is one thing because there is evidence to back up what one is saying.

Making a list of fillers that F" up is rediculous and slanderous unless there is 100 percent proof in what has been accused.

99% of florist complaints against another florist are based on at least 50% of presumptions, you know the complaints we read on hear weekly.

I would not be stupid enough to open myself up to being accused of slander.

Think before you enter into this.

Joan

Joan, maybe I am nieve but I was not aware that every OG that has been named in the OG lists had been proven guilty of both deceptive advertising and skimming.

Just so I am clear on this can someone explain the process that is in place to confirm allegations against companies that are branded as OG's. I will suggest the use of the same process for my thread of Poor Fulfillers. I am assuming that for both the OG list and Poor Fulfillers list the burden of proof will be on the accuser and that a documented process is in place for the accused to have their name removed.

You are 100 % right in that most complaints are based on presumptions, and that these lists need to be 100% certain before posting a name.

The good news is that I suspect that this boards administrators will have no qualms about posting the guidelines currently in place.

Thanks for the input, greatly appreciated

 

[BOSS]

Bloomz, since your list of poor fulfillers is long I am counting on you to contribute to my thread once Boss tells me how to set it up the way I have requested

Thanks in advance

Doug

Doug, simply make your post to begin the thread and I will take care of making it "sticky" so it remains near the top of the forum list.

In your initial post, you may want to include some of your guidelines that you fleshed out n the post to me above so that people follow your desired track.

Peace......

 

[goldfish]

If (and its a big if) fulfillers on a consistent basis turned down orders for product that was difficult or near impossible to fill, or was consistently under priced, the sending member would stop selling that product in quick order.

I wish all those big OG's would do the following.

Email me a catalog of what arrangements they want to sell on their websites and at what prices. I will return it marking every single one that we won't/can't fill.

This would save their time and save our time.

 

[bloomz]

Joan, maybe I am nieve but I was not aware that every OG that has been named in the OG lists had been proven guilty of both deceptive advertising and skimming.

Thanks for the input, greatly appreciated

Here's the deal here - opinions vary so much on what's deceptive as to never come to a consensus. I'm in there as are some other fine florists and *somebody* chooses to label *something* deceptive and voila bob's yer uncle - yer on the list.

Charles Kremp, one of the finest florists in the country is there because somebody decided it was deceptive to have to click "about us" to discover where they were located - lots of irrational stuff like that.

I label my fees as service/delivery, well guess what, *somebody* doesn't like that. (I have a very good reason too - sometimes it's service, sometimes it's delivery, a lot of the time it's half and half). Somebody uses the term "we deliver to" and somebody doesn't like their marketing vernacular and they get labeled as deceptive.

It's all over the map, and opinions vary so much as to make it a futile quest to get agreement on it.

Email me a catalog of what arrangements they want to sell on their websites and at what prices. I will return it marking every single one that we won't/can't fill.

This would save their time and save our time.

Thinking more about who sets the standards, I see it's already in the fillers hands, and has been for a long time.

They knowingly accept specific orders they can't fill hoping sending *something* will be OK - their standards.

It's been up to them for a long time, so baloney on OG's setting the standards.

If no was said to specific arrangements - OG's would stop selling them - period.

Cathy said it herself - FTD removed stuff they couldn't get filled from their Luxury Collection.

But as for a bad filler list - I fear opinions vary too much - there's a lot of ways to be imcompetent - for instance, should that florist 2 weeks ago that had no ink for their printer and blew an Iraq soldier's anniversary be on it?

It all adds up to a sender being disappointed.

 

[RWK]

As I understand the way the WS works, if you, the filling florist, reject an order transmitted to you, you, the filling florist, will pay a fee for the rejection. That reject will cost you money does it not?

At what point then.....if filler after filler rejects said order......do we still not have a disgruntled sender?

Now, if you, the filling florist, recieve an order that you cannot reasonably fill, but instead of a rejection, you send an ask informing the sender that you cannot fill that order as requested, but you can do similar with proper substitution.....or you can fill that order, but not for the dollar value given......so you ask for more dollars....and the sender cancels the order......Who pays what fees then?

Even with that - at what point do we not still have a disgruntled sender?

If the reponsibilty lies with the fillers as you say.......what recourse does the filler have?

 

[duanermb]

If you read this series of threads in order from beginning to end...

(You should all go back and start at yesterday, and go from there)

...the bottom line seems to be, is that a customer or florist that doesn't actually have a conversation with the filling florist before sending the order must be out of their $%@#$@# minds!

Even the ones who are defending the system are highlighting its massive faults!

(Perhaps Bloomz has figured it out, but most of us don't send enough to create that list)

Again, bottom line, this system doesn't work in any way shape or form anymore. I don't really care whose fault it is at this point.

WS free for me!

Message for all Florists!

Dragonfly Flowers on McPhillips - Winnipeg, Manitoba
For deliveries in Winnipeg, call us at 204-633-5200, we accept all major credit cards from florists, and will offer a discount, as we would our best customers! (Currently running a 10% Summer Discount, and our email list got a 15% off code a week or so ago)

Whatever we choose to put on our web site, we can usually fill and usually have some more unique or more affordable offerings in the cooler.

 

[sandytf]

I wish all those big OG's would do the following.

Email me a catalog of what arrangements they want to sell on their websites and at what prices. I will return it marking every single one that we won't/can't fill.

This would save their time and save our time.

I'm sure it depends on the OG, but I don't have much faith in that process. 1800 keeps calling when we refuse orders during a very busy holiday because we can't fill them (either not enough money or don't have the product) Yet they continue to call us 4 or 5 more times? It can't get much more clear than "I'm sorry, we cannot fill this order". Yet somehow, they still try sending it over and over again. Hmmm. So what are they saying? Fill it however we can? Even if it means the arrangement will look nothing like what the customer thinks they are sending-either in size or flowers? Who's "looking out for the customer" in those situations?

 

[bloomz]

Again, bottom line, this system doesn't work in any way shape or form anymore.

With less than 1/2 of 1% failure rate I'd say it's far from not working Duane.

You just hear about the (few) bad ones.

Thousands and thousands of orders are transmitted daily thru 800TFTD's systems.

One of the big YP advertisers I've been told does 2000 orders a day, and that's just one of them.

Total guess but I imagine there's at least 10,000 orders a day - that don't fail.

If *they* were half, hell 10% as bad as espoused up in here that business would never still be flying.

sorry....reality knocks