SAF and their stand on Order Gathering

[domineaux]

I like to boycott day idea, but reality is most florists aren't on these forums.
Communicating and getting people to cooperate with a boycott day would probably be more effort than the returns.
THe WS are committed to their way of doing business and I don't see it changing.

All we can do is continue to refute the deceit, and eventually more people will catch on.
Organizations like SAF are working against B &M shops, along with just about everyone else.

 

[Hal Conklin]

Hal,

You must have voted Democrat....lol After all are they not the bunch that is preaching that Obama care is a good thing regardless of the disapproval rating and the real problem is the average voter "just doesn't fully understand it" and simply needs to be educated about the issue (a polite way of saying they are simply too stupid to grasp the concept).

The reality is that different agencies have been striving for decades to educate the average consumer about the life threatening dangers of smoking, drinking and driving, and over eating, all with varying degrees of limited success. I am curious how you will educate the consumer on our issue (certainly not life threatening) when there is no united group or funding to do so. Please enlighten me.

Doug-
I think not LIFE LONG PROUD REPUBLICAN !!! I dont have all the answers Doug, and never have claimed to however your backyard is not a bad place to start being you have a "captured Audiance" or at least a partial one. At the risk of high jacking the thread you need a Smoken website, A viable independant business technology solution and a little common sence to start. With those 3 items and some others with the same thought process you may have the makings of educators that can spread the word. The bottom line still is you have to give the consumer a reason to buy from you and not them. As much as you may try to compete tho, those paid listings at the top of these search engines still have TREMENDOUS DRAW to the "All About Me" consumer. Thats why if you have to do anything its keeping those customers you do have and utilize them to spread the word about YOU. Rewards Programs, Affinity Programs, Gift Card Programs, Send a personlized gift card with every incoming order, send an extra one with a prepaid stamped envelope to recipient have them send to the person that ordered flowers. This is just a few things. But everyone needs to be proactive not just a few. Maybe someday there will be an organization that will assist rather than compete against. For now as bad as some have taken the comments by Peter to be negative maybe it has lit a fire under their ARSE to be more proactive and start doing something rather than complain and do nothing. I really think that was the message he was trying to convey. But then again ??????

This topic has really run its course, hopefully the message hit home to a few in a manner that will start new and fresh promotion of their websites and florists, and use important technology tools to make their businesses florish in these tough times.

 

[Hal Conklin]

I like to boycott day idea, but reality is most florists aren't on these forums.
Communicating and getting people to cooperate with a boycott day would probably be more effort than the returns.
THe WS are committed to their way of doing business and I don't see it changing.

All we can do is continue to refute the deceit, and eventually more people will catch on.
Organizations like SAF are working against B &M shops, along with just about everyone else.

All boycotting does is create a negative experiance to the consumer never to buy flowers again. BAD,BAD BAD idea. Get a technology tool that can control what you do with incoming orders as you said the wire services and "OG" are not changing nor going away anytime soon. Or drop them all together.

 

[BOSS]

The reality is that the rules of the game have changed for everyone in this industry and individuals can either adapt to the new playing field or eventually perish. Those that complain about the injustices, cry about the practices of the other guy, and lament about what should be, while at the same time do little to build there own business will surely go the way of the dodo bird.

Really? Are you serious? Doug some of your statements in your last few posts seem condescending somewhat.

The biggest part of the problem is the LACK OF ETHICS and HONESTY. SAF should have come out with a statement warning florists of the perils of filling junk orders.

It will be easy to spread the word, some industry publications are watching these debates, PrWeb is a powerful tool, and FaceBook can spread the message to tens of thousands connected people in the click of a mouse, then there is Twitter, FoxNews, and other methods. I can understand why some do not want to tell our dirty little secret, they want things to remain as they have for years, they are the ones that have the most to lose... too bad. Many more are losing much more everyday due to the unethical practices of the few.

Coming later today to a FaceBook page near you: The Anatomy of a Wire Order. We'll break down every little detail and charge, and show how the OG and wire services make more on a $50.00 order than the filling florist does.

Oh and Doug.... I'm no dodo bird.

 

[lori042499]

All boycotting does is create a negative experiance to the consumer never to buy flowers again. BAD,BAD BAD idea. Get a technology tool that can control what you do with incoming orders as you said the wire services and "OG" are not changing nor going away anytime soon. Or drop them all together.

Hal, I agree with you here...I am really not understanding the need for a boycott...everyday we have the choice to fill for the ogs or not to fill, noone says we have to take any of the orders that come over the machine...if you don't like the companies ethics that are sending you orders don't accept them...I stopped a year ago, now I am at the point that the few real florists that send over the wire are not sustaining my membership, so now it is decision time to get rid of the service that no longer makes sense...play the game or get out...don't screw the innocent bystanders and hurt them...they are our lifeline and if florists do organize a boycott and it hits the media, all those poor people will be so confused as to why the florists did this and left their orders unfillable...it will only reflect badly on us and you bet your butt that the OGS will let everyone know that it wasn't thier fault and the the florists did this....to save their a$$

 

[BOSS]

I am really not understanding the need for a boycott...

To get the attention of the industry, since they "think" we won't rock their boat.

you bet your butt that the OGS will let everyone know that it wasn't thier fault and the the florists did this....to save their a$$

They will have no argument once the actual money trail is exposed, and the consumer sees that the OG's keep most of their money, and make more than the filling florist does.

I really can't believe that there are people defending order gathering by NON-florists.

 

[Hal Conklin]

Doug- Just curious do you pass the 11.95 delivery charge that you could possibly charge on your website to fellow florists ? It states "subject to" ....If thats the case Kudos to you..If not shame on you...

 

[bootcampguy]

I think the "florists' would be very receptive to a "correction or spanking". I think they know it's coming. I've ben asked to write 2 articles for a floral mag. (not SAF) and I know they "watching and listening" to this forum. Florists do not need to be "fee payers" in today world. What we do, no other idustry can do. We have the power, we just don't realize it yet..........We could have the OG "kissing" our buttocks if we really knew what we have.......or do......the tide is rolling, the floral revolution has began.

 

[duanermb]

SAF should have come out with a statement warning florists of the perils of filling junk orders.

Why is it SAF's responsibility to tell a florist that they aren't making money on orders they receive through these systems?

Why is it the RIGHT of the florists to fill these orders for a profit? It isn't. It's a choice to be part of the network or not to be.

Why are we so mad at these guys all the time?

To get the attention of the industry, since they "think" we won't rock their boat.

"The Industry" What industry?

Most people seem to disagree with me on this, but I will continue to maintain my stance that what 1800TFTD do has no bearing on the success of our business, and never will.

Somewhere in this thread or another one, I read "the wire services are killing the local florists"

If you believe it's the wire services that are killing local florists, it's time for a wake up call.

I think everyone here needs to go read the article again and see the parts about helping florists lobby for anti-deception laws in 26 states, and the part where they cannot do anything about restricting trade, even in a system that puts the profit in an order gatherers hand.

Coming later today to a FaceBook page near you: The Anatomy of a Wire Order. We'll break down every little detail and charge, and show how the OG and wire services make more on a $50.00 order than the filling florist does.

This stuff is already all over the internet. Know what? Consumers really don't care about our issues. They do care that the $50 rose order from the OG was still a much better value than the $95 roses from the local florist's website.

As a big wire service free florist, I welcome the boycott. If the consumers happen to hear about it, we can say we have never been part of any of those networks, and weren't involved in any of it, but somehow our business continues to grow through the recession.

If I seem irritated with all this, I am. SAF continues to support the initiatives I believe are important and meaningful, like lobbying against the deceptive advertisers and providing lots of useful business tools for florists. He is saying, without saying it what I tried to get across earlier that the power lies with putting our best effort into making THEIR system work for us. Complaining is not going to help anyone, but solid efforts, investment and follow through will help us all. Blow those guys out of the search engines. Support change and work with those who have the power to create change. There are more than enough tools available RIGHT NOW to get the job done, and it has nothing to do with the gorillas.

 

[Rhonda]

SAF continues to support the initiatives I believe are important and meaningful, like lobbying against the deceptive advertisers and providing lots of useful business tools for florists. .

Ah and HERE's the rub........ deceptive advertising!! Includes the Internet and two of the biggest offenders (deceptive and fraudulent statements ON the internet), Kremp and Wesley Berry!! If SAF really wants to fight deceptive advertising, they need to look to the web also. That is my point and case with OG who pretend to be located in my town... (I know I've said it way too often but that is a crux that most small florists complain about - I've heard it at meetings/seminars etc and I do TRY to educate them on the importance of a great web presence for their local shop - yes we need to educate the shops, too)

 

[BOSS]

Why is it SAF's responsibility to tell a florist that they aren't making money on orders they receive through these systems?

As an industry advocate, you would think they would look out for the best interests of their members. You know, the ones that pay dues to get good information.

And BTW Duane, SAF has done nothing regarding deceptive advertising and order gathering. They are more interested in immigration reform, something even our Federal Government refuses to work on, so I guess SAF wasted a lot of our money lobbying for something that is being handled by the states these days.

GO Florida and Arizona~!

ADDED: I need to correct my above statement. SAF has helped to get some deceptive practices legislation in many states, and in other areas too. However that does not absolve them of the responsibility of policing their membership. Wesley and Kremp are members, as are many other deceptive marketers like FTD. Seems SAF, like our federal government, simply looks the other way as long as the dues are paid.

 

[BOSS]

Um, and Duane

SAF... "The Floral Business AUTHORITY" to quote SAF...

Don't you think that makes it their responsibility to tell their members the TRUTH about incoming order values and deceptive order gathering?

I do.

 

[Hal Conklin]

Doug- Just curious do you pass the 11.95 delivery charge that you could possibly charge on your website to fellow florists ? It states "subject to" ....If thats the case Kudos to you..If not shame on you...

Doug I read further into your site and you must be commended for passing that delivery to the Florist. That ensures your product is hopefully filled properly and both parties are hopefully happy with results. This is one step in doing the right thing for florists that do fill orders.
Thank you

 

[bootcampguy]

Look at this months SAF and look who all the full and 1/2 page ads are?........thats why they write they do. They will always have to sit on the fence and "wiggle" back and forth with one toe in each "camp".........

 

[lori042499]

To get the attention of the industry, since they "think" we won't rock their boat.


They will have no argument once the actual money trail is exposed, and the consumer sees that the OG's keep most of their money, and make more than the filling florist does.

I really can't believe that there are people defending order gathering by NON-florists.

Not defending their gathering, just trying to pre-think what we florists can get our selves in trouble with next with our actions...You must admit our track record is not so stellar when we come up with ideas ie. yelling for more orders from wire services and we end up with ogs...boy that sure solved our problems didn't it...

I am just very concerned that usually a boycott hurts one entity, like tuna fish, the boycott was meant to hurt the tuna companies to make dolphin safe nets...it may have hurt some fishermens bottom line too, but that was consumers demanding what they want from a company..

because of the tangle web that is the wireservices, a boycott can and will hurt not just those intended wireservices and ogs, but also consumers who have no real understanding of what the heck goes on and many don't care, they just want their silly flower arrangement...so you get the florists to boycott who are so great at getting the word out to begin with and then the ogs who really are got at getting the word out and getting media attention and tweeting and facebooking and have staff to do this and we look like a bunch of whiney aholes that screwed a whole bunch of consumers and made their flowers late...history doesn't lie, this is in fact how it would go down and we would blacken our eyes so bad it would make Mike Tyson look like a weenie!!!!

 

[BOSS]

Mike Tyson IS a weenie~!

For the record, my problem is with NON-Florists, and those like Wesley Berry and Charles Kremp that market themselves as local florists in markets.

It seems that the floral industry motto these days is: Ethics be d a m n e d every man for himself.

 

[domineaux]

All boycotting does is create a negative experiance to the consumer never to buy flowers again. BAD,BAD BAD idea. Get a technology tool that can control what you do with incoming orders as you said the wire services and "OG" are not changing nor going away anytime soon. Or drop them all together.

I was thinking of boycotting in terms of florists boycotting WS for the day, not involving customers.

 

[duanermb]

Mike Tyson IS a weenie~!

For the record, my problem is with NON-Florists, and those like Wesley Berry and Charles Kremp that market themselves as local florists in markets.

It seems that the floral industry motto these days is: Ethics be d a m n e d every man for himself.

One click on their about us page...

Kremp Florist is the Philadelphia region's largest florist located in Willow Grove.

 

[lori042499]

I was thinking of boycotting in terms of florists boycotting WS for the day, not involving customers.

and how does that happen...you must remember that each and every flower order starts out as a well meaning person just trying to send someone the know, like or love flowers for some sort of occasion...when we don't can't or won't fill them, someone's gift gets screwed up...Boycotts should not affect the general public, we all need to realize that even thought we are the wire services customer, we have given them control because we let them get in the middle of us and our customers..we now have to think about things double think to make sure our actions do not further damage the actions already taken...Boycotting is not the answer, straight quitting is...my resignation goes out the end of this month, whether or not have a website or a pos system...I am all done...My exit date will finally be jan 1st and I will be wire service free...I may look into Bbrooks or one of the small ones, but I hope to just use my credit card...I hope to gain my business back and I hope to put all of this whining behind me...I now believe that it really isn't our business that is crazy, I think it is the way we do business that is crazy...here's to hoping that post Jan 1st my life becomes profitable, sane and enjoyable again..If not come may, the for sale sign goes up and I look for a job...

 

[BOSS]

One click on their about us page...

Then you tell me why they have THIS PAGE and thousands more like it.

I guess ethics are not important to you sir.