SAF and their stand on Order Gathering

[concord]

Why not boycott among florists without invoving customers? We can still send orders to each other direct and boycott the OG and/WS completely? The general public need never know and could care less as long as their orders get filled.

 

[anytimeflowers]

Dont laugh too hard !!! Sorry if you were offended however the facts are just that, same things said by same people with no resolve. While i agree every now and then is ok but just to gripe and whine ? Now Wine ? I'm all in. This issue is going to take time and not be resolved overnight. Would love to hear what positive steps florists are taking rather than the constant complaining. Revisting is fine but suggest a solution right or wrong thats my definition of proactive. Get involved don't sit on the sideline !! Eventually things will happen.. Some people on this board are working very hard to make a differance and compete. This is what MAS is doing, further developing MAS Direct so all real florists on independant technology can communicate with one another electronically. Wouldnt it be fantastic if Floristware, FAS, Visual Ticket and MAS could all do this together. By providing your customer live current information this is something they "OG" can't do thats why the fees imposed by Wire Services on incoming orders when not delivered or confirmed or held and rejected. This is something that would be HUGE with just a little more involvement. The OG's are the ones dictating to the Wire Services on how to handle the retail florists because of volume. Florists don't need another wire service they need a marketing company that they can collectively use to grab more of that "All About Me" business. It's too bad SAF couldnt be that vehicle, having to be politically correct all the time doesnt go well. But as I stated before you have to be proactive in your own yard first and SAF does offer tools to assist you, it's your choice to use or not.

Hal, I'm not offended at all. These are the dialogues that will eventually hit the right chord with someone who is undecided on what they should do in regards to their business. I have hopes that these discussions will bring clarity, at their discretion.

For some, the current way works just fine, they are perfectly happy, and they don't know that until they have read these opinions. Good for them. They have found a way to adapt.

For some, they come to understand that they are losing money when it looks like they should be making money, and they cut out the problem. Good for them. They have found a way to adapt.

I agree this is going to take time, a lot of time. And, as I said in an earlier post, it's not going to be pretty. Everybody, (thank God), has a right to make money in their business, or lose their shirts. They have that right. This includes og's. No Domineaux, I am NOT defending them, I'm stating a fact that we have to look at this with business-owner's eyes, not emotion. The og's are going to fight back and we cannot blame them. But we can fight, too.

I do not belong to a wire service, nor will I again. That does not mean I think they should fold up and go away. As an example, BarbaraBrooks, who by all accounts is a wonderful wire service, still needs ANOTHER wire service in order to facilitate 100% coverage.

I am a proponent of the wire services policing the offenders. Those who mislead the consumer, and that would need to be defined. Also, the wire services being up-front with what the consumer is paying for would be another "bite outa crime".

Those who mislead the consumer into thinking that they are ordering from a local florist need to be banned from participation. The wire services should look ahead a little bit in regards to legislation being passed, they just may find themselves being named as accessories to a crime. Nobody can say who the consumer would have ended up placing an order with, but it is clear that they were attempting to find a real florist and by these deceptions, think that they have. It is just as clear, by these same deceptive listings, that the owners of these sites understand that the consumer wants to find a local florist. That is why they decieve.

Yes, Hal, I agree we don't need another wire service. By recent ad campaigns I have been subjected to, industry specific, more and more companies are out there offering to build websites, have the software to process orders, do credit cards, SEO to gather orders, etc., all specifically aimed at independent florists. We are not the only ones who have identified the problems. Others have not only identified it, but are already poised to reap the profits, again, from florists.

If I am reading your post right, when you talk about florists needing a marketing company to grab more of the "It's all about me crowd", you are talking about a consumer recognized site where they could go to order, and know without doubt, that they are ordering from a local florist. Is that right? Are you talking about a listing site like locate-a-florist or are you talking about a site like EZblooms where the consumer chooses from a menu? Or neither?

I like the idea of a combination of those two. Where, if people are looking for a quick fix, "I want it now", they could order from a menu, but also would have the ability to do a search for independent florist's websites and order from those. I do not like EZblooms for myself simply because I am uncomfortable copying designs from an menu with a recipe.

For myself, my yard is pretty clean. I'm a small to medium volume shop in a huge metro population, but am well known and well liked within my community. Because I'm not wire service, (I am FSN), my local customers are well taken care of. I'm an entreprenuer at heart and cannot help myself when it comes to new ways to connect with more customers, but I draw the line at order-gathering for the sole purpose of redirecting after skimming and that's a personal preference.

I recently rejoined SAF because I have every intention of being a voice when it comes to what steps to take in regards to blatantly deceitful order gathering. I feel passionately about this industry, I have no explanation as to why that is, only that I do.

Everything under the sun changes, if it doesn't change, by definition, it isn't alive. Lack of understanding that feeds these feelings of betrayal, it's true, but common decency and ethics should not be this hard to define.

 

[theRKF]

Duane, check the image.... it's a SAF link, for Kremps shop in Winnipeg Manitoba CANADA... BTW the search term was "Kremp Florist Winnipeg"

And no comment about the SAF link to their Winnipeg page??

This is probably a violation of SAF copyright,etc.
Using SAF link to a private site is probably very much a NO NO.

I was all ready to queue up a nice answer to the above ...

Then Duane stole my thunder

Did you actually click on the link man???

You googled Kremp Florists and Winnipeg. So, the GOOGLE GENERATED tag showed you both terms which are pulled from the directory page. OMG.
Kremp Florist
Philadelphia's premier flower shop serving Philadelphia and the suburban area. Flower delivery available all across the nation and worldwide. Open and delivering 7 days a week.


Dragonfly Flowers on McPhillips
Winnipeg, Manitoba Florist specializing in unique, creative floral designs for All Occasions.

That's what I get for being away from FC for a couple hours.

Rant on, folks. Pardon the interruption.

 

[Mikey the Flower Guy]

Only until there are no filler fools left willing to fill...then they die a quick death.

This could all be avoided *IF* the wires would see that by eliminating non-florists from the gig, that the order volume would remain and the florists would actually make money. The system worked and worked well for 90 years, then came the OG's fueled by rebates and Bad Bobby to the point of making the system top weighted and virtually unprofitable for the filler. The balance that prevailed for those first 9 decades allowed for both sending and receiving, now the receiving is profitless for the most part, and the sending is concentrated in the top 20% (or less) of shops and OG's. An unsustainable balance in the longer run.

it worked well until the advent of "internet for all" and almost EVERYONE jumped on board EXCEPT florists...point all the fingers you wish, THEN, ask yourself WHY you didn't become a leading OG, raking in huge money, living a more spiritual life in some comfort, INSTEAD of living a more spiritual life on a day to day basis??
Deceptive Order Gathers are just as described, and NONE of us can "lower" our so-called standards to the snake in the grass image, BUT, I fail to "understand" how collecting orders on behalf of clients, and sending them to the appropriate filling shops based on trust, is painted with the same brush???...how did THAT happen??
So, you're saying that MAKING 20 bucks on a hundred is evil somehow??...is THIS your "final" decision??

 

[Mikey the Flower Guy]

That's what I get for being away from FC for a couple hours.

Rant on, folks. Pardon the interruption.

you COULD be charged with abandonment!!!...it's "hot" in here you know!!

 

[Mikey the Flower Guy]

Why not boycott among florists without involving customers? We can still send orders to each other direct and boycott the OG and/WS completely? The general public need never know and could care less as long as their orders get filled.

this is the simplistic context, and MOST intrusive to your time, when time has a premium!

 

[lori042499]

This thread is aggravating, exciting, entertaining and confusing all at the same time...

Way back in 2001 at the shop I was managing, I knew we needed to do something right off about internet, web advertising blah blah...We were spending 1200.00 a month in print advertising and losing local ordersby a slight margin every month...and gaining in wire ins by a slight margin every month...my boss at the time was all for letting the internet companies spend their money and advertise for us(how silly) and we would just sit back and rake in the orders...I had no idea how much more money was to be made by sending only at that time in my life, so I went with his idea and watched as the company that was taking in 500,000 dollars dwindle to 350,000 and struggling to make ends meet, but being just as busy as we ever were not understanding why...we had 4 websites, 3 wireservices and plenty of walkin and phonebiz...I started cutting back on wire ads, and print ads because we just couldn't afford it... about mid 2000's, this is when I began to hate the ogs and knew that we made a huge mistake, we were losing the game and I was losing my job because of this machine called the og..I grappled with when I opened my own shop whether or not to have wireservices at all and figured I would factor in marketing to the locals for wireouts, but I as a small shop do not and will not ever have the marketing dollars that they have amassed or got their hands on in the venture capital frenzy....not to mention I just cannot bold facedly lie to consumers about what they are paying for, sell them underpriced crap, lie about where I am, etc, it just isn't in my blood, I believe this to be my biggest business flaw, it holds me back from making what makes the world go round, it is what put my father out of business and many others, the fact is that the honest guy doen't always win, we can just put our heads on the pillow at night and know that we did good and we could die knowing we never cheated anyone...this is a good feeling, it doesn't buy big houses or yachts, but hopefully it lets you live a long and untortured life...

 

[BOSS]

losing local orders by a slight margin every month...and gaining in wire ins by a slight margin every month...

Anyone want to take a stab at the cause of the above scenario?

I'll shut up now... nobody wants to hear it anyway....

Have a nice day.

 

[sandytf]

I think too many florists get wound up in the minutiae of how the wire service/order gathering/filling works and expect our customers to have a desire to understand all of it. Most really don't . We forget about why the order is placed in the first place. If we put ourselves in our customers shoes, and think about what they are looking for and how to best provide it to them, we will thrive. Most people just want to send some nice flowers to people they care about and they want it to be as easy as possible as well as getting fair value. Taking orders for your local customers and finding a florist across the country to fill them is NOT EVIL. It's a service that we should provide for our customers and do as professionally as possible. My family always calls me when they have an order to go out of town because they know I can best navigate to find a good florist, the product they are looking for, and a fair price....BECAUSE I AM THE PROFESSIONAL AND THAT'S WHAT WE ARE PAID TO DO! They happily pay a fee for this service, as do many of our other customers. I could argue that NOT providing that service to your customers that want it is unprofessional.

As far as deceptive advertising and exhorbiant fees....yes I'm against that. Things are just not black and white....no matter how much someone wants them to be so they can "take sides". There's a lot of gray area.

 

[kfooten]

This seems great to do. We just dropped our last wire service, and it feels great. I think the average consumer is getting smarter and contacting florists directly. With tools like Google Maps, it is easy to see if a florist is local or not. Could we convince SAF to do a "Buy Local" ad campaign? It is the Society of American Florists, right, not the Society of Big Companies who Profit from all the Hard work that American Florists do.

 

[douginmood]

It has been my opinion for some time that SAF has become too much like their neighbors on capitol hill; way to political and not in any way supportive of the Floral industry as a whole. To even suggest that the Order Gatherer business model should be emulated in any way shows a blatant disregard for every conscientious person still able to make a living selling flowers. This is yet another reason (and there are many) why I'm not a member of an organization that proclaims to support me while undermining every aspect of my business.

 

[bootcampguy]

He or she who pays for the adversitsing good or bad, it is he or she who we (SAF) support or "spin" to justify what our advertisers do...............Without the 1/2 and full page ads............there would be no SAF. I made the mistake of speaking my mind to a "fellow florist" and not knowing their "position" with SAF so, now I'm looked as "radical" and "not partner worthy".......oh, well I guess one less place to get a dinner invitation.....................

 

[CHR]

Could we convince SAF to do a "Buy Local" ad campaign?

The keynote speaker for SAF's convention last year was Cinda Baxter of the 3/50 Project. She's the most recognized leader in 'buy local' in the US.

Her presentation was fairly basic (lots of facts), but did address issues of how to compete with 'national' companies.

 

[bootcampguy]

Her presentation was fairly basic (lots of facts), but did address issues of how to compete with 'national' companies. [/URL]

That's why I keep saying there's no meat in their presnetations. They talk in riddles and rhymes. They paid high price speakers to come in "tickle" eveeryone.....so they look like they care....................

 

[Doug Munro]

I think too many florists get wound up in the minutiae of how the wire service/order gathering/filling works and expect our customers to have a desire to understand all of it. Most really don't . We forget about why the order is placed in the first place. If we put ourselves in our customers shoes, and think about what they are looking for and how to best provide it to them, we will thrive. Most people just want to send some nice flowers to people they care about and they want it to be as easy as possible as well as getting fair value. Taking orders for your local customers and finding a florist across the country to fill them is NOT EVIL. It's a service that we should provide for our customers and do as professionally as possible. My family always calls me when they have an order to go out of town because they know I can best navigate to find a good florist, the product they are looking for, and a fair price....BECAUSE I AM THE PROFESSIONAL AND THAT'S WHAT WE ARE PAID TO DO! They happily pay a fee for this service, as do many of our other customers. I could argue that NOT providing that service to your customers that want it is unprofessional.

As far as deceptive advertising and exhorbiant fees....yes I'm against that. Things are just not black and white....no matter how much someone wants them to be so they can "take sides". There's a lot of gray area.

Wow, a voice of reason.
Lets face it the average consumer buys flowers a couple of times per year (based on Statistics Canada data), and sending flowers to another city probably is a small portion of this. Why would a consumer with a buying pattern this infrequent even care or have any desire to know the business details behind that transaction. I suspect the only things on their mind is selecting a nice product, the price, and ease of purchase. The continuing talk about educating the consumer about the evils of order gathering is IMHO a misdirection of energy and time.

Face it, when you purchase gas, or maybe coffee do you want to be educated about where the product comes from, the possible harm that the revenue may be doing to the countries that export the product, how much the producer gets paid, etc. Secondly, if you were willing to be educated would you be willing to go out of your way or possibly pay more for the product to ensure that everyone was paid fairly?

If so, lets start lets have a look at our own industry and how many flower farms are struggling and closing because because of economic conditions. How many florists would be willing to change their own purchasing habits to ensure the the producer of the flowers makes money.

Nuff said?

 

[anytimeflowers]

Wow, a voice of reason.
Lets face it the average consumer buys flowers a couple of times per year (based on Statistics Canada data), and sending flowers to another city probably is a small portion of this. Why would a consumer with a buying pattern this infrequent even care or have any desire to know the business details behind that transaction. I suspect the only things on their mind is selecting a nice product, the price, and ease of purchase. The continuing talk about educating the consumer about the evils of order gathering is IMHO a misdirection of energy and time.

Face it, when you purchase gas, or maybe coffee do you want to be educated about where the product comes from, the possible harm that the revenue may be doing to the countries that export the product, how much the producer gets paid, etc. Secondly, if you were willing to be educated would you be willing to go out of your way or possibly pay more for the product to ensure that everyone was paid fairly?

If so, lets start lets have a look at our own industry and how many flower farms are struggling and closing because because of economic conditions. How many florists would be willing to change their own purchasing habits to ensure the the producer of the flowers makes money.



Nuff said?

Doug,

Heck no, not enough said!

Do you know that women make over 75% of all purchasing decisions? Did you know that women prefer to have a relationship with who they buy from? And that she prefers to buy from a "do gooder" (for lack of a better phrase at the moment), like a florist who buys from a verified grower?

You had better BELIEVE she will be interested.

 

[BOSS]

Face it, when you purchase gas, or maybe coffee do you want to be educated about where the product comes from

Nuff said?

Nope, not enough said....

And yes Doug... I ONLY buy Fair Trade Coffee, meaning that the profits from the coffee I buy actually goes to the farmers, workers and their continuing growth and education, health and improved life. I want to know~!

Likewise, I'm exploring Fair Trade Flowers where the same things occur, the benefit of the farm workers, the profit to the farm and so on. Should have more on this in a month or two.

It's a personal choice to stop doing harm and start being responsible for my fellow man and myself.

 

[Mikey the Flower Guy]

Nope, not enough said....

And yes Doug... I ONLY buy Fair Trade Coffee, meaning that the profits from the coffee I buy actually goes to the farmers, workers and their continuing growth and education, health and improved life. I want to know~!

Likewise, I'm exploring Fair Trade Flowers where the same things occur, the benefit of the farm workers, the profit to the farm and so on. Should have more on this in a month or two.

It's a personal choice to stop doing harm and start being responsible for my fellow man and myself.

don't jump on Doug, where do YOU get YOUR "fair trade" gasoline??
Coffee is one thing, DON'T use that as a sticking point!

 

[anytimeflowers]

don't jump on Doug, where do YOU get YOUR "fair trade" gasoline??
Coffee is one thing, DON'T use that as a sticking point!

HOWEVER........I know MANY people who boycotted BP........

 

[bootcampguy]

I think what Boss says if right, todays consumer does want to know the issues. Personal Relationship Marketing (like in the 70s) is on the comeback, it doesn't matter if your buying "flowers, coffee or tampons", today's consumer wants to know..........and if we do a good job educating them, then we win "big box" loses.......also we gain the credibility that "big box" can't offer. The buy local girl can't sit down with a pen and paper and "show" you how to create a "buy local circle" or asd I call it "the customer traingle" or create the LCV needed for the long haul............